Confirmed with Link: TRADE: Penguins acquire LW Andreas Martinsen, 7th Round Pick from Ducks for Erik Gudbranson

NMK11

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Apr 6, 2013
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It’s the elephant in the room because it’s what JR wants.

Honestly doesn’t matter how people feel, just how JR feels.

All we can do is hope he finds a solution without going off his rocker again, because this quest of his isn’t over.
I'm definitely on the con side of the enforcer debate, but this is pretty much where I've ended up. JR runs the team, and he's made it clear he wants a certain type of player. If we can't go the tough AND skilled route, we need a guy who is bad enough that he won't be an every game player and just come in and play his 5 minutes against the caps to try and punch Wilson in the face, and then head back to WBS.

And for the love of God, please no more defenseman tough guys. Just be normal and make it a 13F.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
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I'm definitely on the con side of the enforcer debate, but this is pretty much where I've ended up. JR runs the team, and he's made it clear he wants a certain type of player. If we can't go the tough AND skilled route, we need a guy who is bad enough that he won't be an every game player and just come in and play his 5 minutes against the caps to try and punch Wilson in the face, and then head back to WBS.

And for the love of God, please no more defenseman tough guys. Just be normal and make it a 13F.

My stances on the enforcer are this: if Sid wants one, Sid gets one. And it's been pretty clear that Sid actively wants an enforcer on the roster. Other than that, I totally agree with @Mr Jiggyfly that hitters are way more valuable in this NHL, but I think that if you can find the right kind of pest/aggitator, they're worthwhile too. They just have shorter shelf lives.

I just think it's dumb that all the hot anti-fighting takes come out and people act like it's some totally new conversation that nobody's ever had in the last 35 years. It's boring. Talk about anything else, but for the love of god, Montresor!
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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I'm definitely on the con side of the enforcer debate, but this is pretty much where I've ended up. JR runs the team, and he's made it clear he wants a certain type of player. If we can't go the tough AND skilled route, we need a guy who is bad enough that he won't be an every game player and just come in and play his 5 minutes against the caps to try and punch Wilson in the face, and then head back to WBS.

And for the love of God, please no more defenseman tough guys. Just be normal and make it a 13F.

But is this still true?

JR has been pursuing exactly the team built that most of us have been begging for and alarmed that he abandoned after the second cup.

JR does some boneheaded moves, but he usually rights course and corrects them. What of late shows that he still is pursuing grit and size over speed and skill?

He in fact has clearly said the opposite regarding future team building and the type of players he wanted to add. And then added ones just like we wanted, even if he overpaid a little.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
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Praha, CZ
For some reason I really wanted to like Guds. I'll have good memories of him from last season. Wish it had carried into this season.

This is pretty much my exact feeling on the trade-- Guds was fine last season while JJ was terrible, and now paradoxically, it's JJ who's actually okay on the bottom pairing and Guds who was terrible. So, cut and run, good for JR.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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Net loss in assets? How is that? We traded a UFA forward for Pearson then traded Pearson for Gudbranson. Gudbranson played well for us last season and gave us rental worth value. Hagelin signed a 4 year contract worth $2.75 million at the age of 31. Would you rather have that or Tanev for 6 years at $3.5 million at 27 years old? Tanev will be 32 at his deals end and Hagelin 34. I rather have Tanev but in the end it was no assets lost and in fact it is a 7th round pick gained.

Asset management is one of Rutherford's best strengths. Shero wasted tons of high picks on aging rentals and Rutherford almost always trades for players in prime or younger with term. Last season he added Pettersson 22, McCann 22, Bjugstad 26, and Gudbranson 27 for 3 UFA's, and a waiver wire prospect and some picks. That is some pretty awesome asset management. Trade 3 rentals you didn't want to resign which is zero value after that season for young players with term.

This summer Rutherford trades a 6th round pick for Marino 22 who is already in our starting 6. Every GM makes mistakes but Rutherford always moves on fast and makes many more great trades than loses on deals. Rutherford has added a ton of young talent in the past year just like he did when he took an old slow team and turned them in the fastest team in hockey and 2 Cup Champs. Your Monday morning quarterbacking is lame.

What in the... ?

Here let me go ahead and just highlight a quick section of my post you are quoting. This will be very brief (something you might want to consider more of) as it was literally the first and last sentence I wrote:

Don't at all take this as complaining because I'm more than fine with this deal. But yet again this represents a seeming impulse buy that lasted less than a year and ended up being a net loss in assets.

But again... I'm happy that they made the decision to cut their losses, here. Something had to be done.

So, yeah.

Also it's a net loss in assets because you started with a Carl Hagelin (or Barzal as pointed out above if you really want to go that far back... I don't) and ended up with this AHL guy. No... I don't want Carl Hagelin or Tanner Pearson. And yes I understand that cap space was the big return here (there are other ways to gain cap space, you know... like not trading for Gudbranson in the first place). But they are NHL players and Martinsen is not. It's perfectly fine if you are a big JR fan and appreciate his hair-on-fire style of GMing... go on with your bad self. But maybe read a little more and write a little less next time you call someone lame.
 
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JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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Hornqvist could be that type of player f he really wanted to. But hed rather be one of the most hated guys to play against with his work in front of the net And the points he gets(and others) because of it.

Also as for the team JR is trying to build by adding size...I don't think it's what others are assuming. All of Poulin, Legare, and Hallander are similar types. 6'1-6'2 at age 19 with skill and all can attack the net, play that aggressive game around it the way Hornqvist/Guentzel get alot of their goals but these 3 are more true power forwards. While also not just being one dimensional. We've already talked about Poulin having a complete game. Legare can also snipe. Hallander can be the next Hornqvist type. Not as high of a ceiling as the other two but we'll see. Also harder to judge considering the leagues.

I remember when Bjorkvist was our top offensive prospect lol. JR sure upgraded this prospect pool the last two years. Addison\POJ as well. And Almeida. Solid drafting. Now keep keeping our picks. No more first round trades unless an offer too good to refuse. Feel like we have prospects (excluding the top ones) and players(ZAR/Simon, Kahun, Lafferty, etc....cant keep em all) to get what we want. We don't need to trade picks. We should def go for it this year tho Since we will have the cap space this year....which wont be the case next and rarely ever is. We have potential to clear at least 4more mil up to 4 or so more if we really want to. Not to mention Schultz and his 5.5 mil IF we dont plan on keeping him. And before you think we would be hurting our chances this year by trading him, im assuming we would replace him on D while adding that elite winger(or two very good ones like a Zucker type...) With the 15mil in cap space we could create.

Getting ahead of ourselves but this is the thought process they should have a few months from now if it looks like we do have a chance to be a top contender(AG panning out with Geno, McCann becoming more consistent, and so on).
 
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Giant Yankee Pens

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May 17, 2010
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That's a dangerous game that leads to Barzal if you keep going.
No, JR needed a D at the deadline last year, and got one for an expiring UFA who was not needed... he then removed the contract once it became a cap issue... saying (we could have drafted barzal) is ridiculous. The two trade have nothing close to each other while last year to this year does... not to mention you would need to include the two cups we won, not to mention the fact that there is no guarantee we would have taken Barzal even if we had the pick, or that Barzal would have turned into the player he is, if we took him.
 

Tom Hanks

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Basically JR traded Pearson (an expiring contract) for 20+ games of Guds (helped last year's March win streak), and a 7th. Not bad.

FYI Pearson was signed until the end of the 2020/21 season (same as Gudbranson). Don’t think the deal would have gone down with out similar contracts.
 
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Corvidae

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May 5, 2009
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No, JR needed a D at the deadline last year, and got one for an expiring UFA who was not needed... he then removed the contract once it became a cap issue... saying (we could have drafted barzal) is ridiculous. The two trade have nothing close to each other while last year to this year does... not to mention you would need to include the two cups we won, not to mention the fact that there is no guarantee we would have taken Barzal even if we had the pick, or that Barzal would have turned into the player he is, if we took him.

I bolded everything wrong for you.

1) Your general understanding of causality is wrong. And I have to hand it to you, that's not something I thought I'd ever say to any person.

That's like saying if grandma died before child birth you'd still be fine because those are different generations. You could instead, if you really really wanted to, say, "we got a 7th round pick and some rando for the 16th overall in 2015." Instead, I'll refer you to point 2...

2) You're taking this too seriously. Calm down.
 

BHD

Vejmelka for Vezina
Dec 27, 2009
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Pettersson had to take a ridiculous discount so the team could fit him under the salary cap. Mind you, they acquired him midseason AFTER they signed Johnson. But still...

I guess I'm not confident in management's ability to look ahead.
 
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Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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Pettersson had to take a ridiculous discount so the team could fit him under the salary cap. Mind you, they acquired him midseason AFTER they signed Johnson. But still...

I guess I'm not confident in management's ability to look ahead.

Yeah, I am pretty sure that Pets sees a large chunk of that savings as owed to him this off season.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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Pettersson had to take a ridiculous discount so the team could fit him under the salary cap. Mind you, they acquired him midseason AFTER they signed Johnson. But still...

I guess I'm not confident in management's ability to look ahead.

Cap space to JR is like giving a hyperactive 15 year old kid with a bad subscription gaming habit a 100 dollar bill and actually expecting them to not spend it.
 
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The GM

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Jun 7, 2012
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My only concern is what Rutherford does with cap space come July.1st. For now, though, good on JR.
This assumes he has this cap space on July 1 and doesn’t show up to the podium in the next couple of days with a sh!t eating grin on his face to announce the signing of dion phaneuf to a six year deal.
 

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
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Barzal broke into the league after Hagelin had already helped the pens win 2 cups. Waiting for him could of cost us both cups. Not worth so many people bringing this up.

I agree, anyone that would rather have Barzal instead of two Cups is literally lacking in thought. Hagelin was a key member of those teams and the HBK line for the first Cup was a big reason they won. This Monday morning quarterbacking is ridiculous and when the move to trade the 1st round pick ended up winning your team two Cups that is the epitome of asset management.

Again, Rutherford has done a brilliant job as GM. Those two Cups are all his doing. Rutherford literally took a team that experts said their time had passed that was old and slow and in a year's time transformed them into Cup Champs with some great trades. Even this past season Rutherford did great moves getting the team younger and faster by trading UFA players for younger players with term. Rutherford has made many more awesome trades than bad ones.
 

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