GDT: Trade Deadline Thread | Jost Do It

[Iceberg]

If it meant getting Barkov. The Avs would absolutely deal Rantanen. They'd be insane not to.

Today? Sure.

But not two years from now, when Barkov would be a few months away from UFA.

The whole talk of Barkov revolves around the possibility that, in a year and half or two, the Panthers might eventually feel forced to trade him.

 

[mapletreemarty]

I say this with all honesty, but the Avs really lucked out having #1 in 2013. The only way they could have screwed it up is if Joe got his way (Drouin). It's great we got MacKinnon, but I think the Avs could absolutely still be a good/great team if they had taken either Jones or Barkov at 1.

Wait..... Sakic wanted Drouin?? I thought it was between MacK and Barkov.

 

[Chileiceman]

I just envisioned a world where we picked Drouin instead of Mackinnon and had a mild heart attack. I hope Cousin Eddie is right and Sakic wanted Barkov. I could've lived with that.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I just envisioned a world where we picked Drouin instead of Mackinnon and had a mild heart attack. I hope Cousin Eddie is right and Sakic wanted Barkov. I could've lived with that.

Pretty sure that was confirmed by Roy back in that draft year after we won the lottery.


MacKinnon, Barkov, Drouin was the order they ranked the 3 forwards and it was reportedly very close between Mack and Barkov.

 

[RockLobster]

Uhhh what? Joe’s guy was Barkov. Roy was all about his guy from the Q (Mackinnon). Don’t think Drouin was ever a slight possibility.

Scouts wanted Jones (and they also really liked Barkov), Patty wanted MacKinnon, Joe liked Drouin.

I could be wrong, sure, but I guess I'd be surprised since it was relayed to me in that fashion from a couple of different people. *shrug*

 

[Perratrooper]

Scouts wanted Jones (and they also really liked Barkov), Patty wanted MacKinnon, Joe liked Drouin.

I thought Scouts liked Barkov then Jones? Didn't Sakic publicly state Jones wasn't in there top 3?

 

[RockLobster]

I thought Scouts liked Barkov then Jones? Didn't Sakic publicly state Jones wasn't in there top 3?

As I have had it relayed to me (on more than one occasion), it was always the order I'd said, with the caveat that the scouts also "really like(d) Barkov". I get the general feeling that Barkov was a rather consensus ranking among everyone. I don't have anything to back that up, just a gut feeling.

For all the faults Patty had when he was here (and even though I thought he could have built something interesting if he had more control, he definitely had blind spots), we should be happy he basically pounded the table and said "it's MacKinnon, we're done here".

 

[jaems]

To be fair to Sakic, I never would've imagined Drouin would only develop now to a decent top line winger (a lot can change over the next ten years). I figured all four of them would turn into elite superstars, though I thought rolling the die on MacKinnon was safer than Jones just because defensemen take forever to develop and can be harder to project.

But back then, I still wouldn't have picked Drouin just because assuming all players had equal potential, Center and Defense have more value than winger.

Getting Jones might have made more sense though because we were already super stacked at Center.

 

[Avsboy]

Rantanen, Byram, 1st, small + for Barkov. That's fair value.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Can we have our roster thread back lol?

 

[Pokecheque]

From what I understand they were all pretty high on Barkov, but Paddy pushed for MacKinnon. The big disconnect between Roy and Pracey was Jones and MacKinnon.

 

[Pokecheque]

Rantanen, Byram, 1st, small + for Barkov. That's fair value.

Jost's new nickname.

 

[jaems]

Rantanen, Byram, 1st, small + for Barkov. That's fair value.

My prediction is Florida won't reach an extension with Barkov and will trade him at the trade deadline in 2022. And they won't get anything close to that package, probably closer to a bunch of quantity, similar to ROR/Seguin/Thornton/Pronger/Hossa/Kovalchuk. It's pretty rare that you see a player return both an elite roster player AND a blue chip prospect.

 

[Avsboy]

My prediction is Florida won't reach an extension with Barkov and will trade him at the trade deadline in 2022. And they won't get anything close to that package, probably closer to a bunch of quantity, similar to ROR/Seguin/Thornton/Pronger/Hossa/Kovalchuk. It's pretty rare that you see a player return both an elite roster player AND a blue chip prospect.

Was talking about selling him now.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Rantanen, Byram, 1st, small + for Barkov. That's fair value.

Fair value? No way the Avs touch that.

Rantanen, a recent top 5 pick, a 1st and something else on top of it. Not sure how much back in time do we have to go to find a trade where 1 guy returned as much value.

 

[Avsboy]

Fair value? No way the Avs touch that.

Rantanen, a recent top 5 pick, a 1st and something else on top of it. Not sure how much back in time do we have to go to find a trade where 1 guy returned as much value.

So Rantanen + Byram base. That much has to be in the deal to make it work.

 

[Pokecheque]

Barkov's current deal expires two years after this. There have been reports that Florida's ownership has order the team to cut 10m in salary next season. There are rumors that Trocheck was traded for monetary reasons. The Bobrovsky deal looks to be a major anchor for the team going forward. The team hasn't made the playoffs since 2016 and doesn't look like they'll make it this season either. The team plays regularly in a half-empty building.

My question to you is: Why on Earth would Barkov want to stay there?

So it's not a question of whether Florida would entertain the idea of trading him. It's a question of when/if he requests a trade, or when/if Florida realize they are going to lose him for nothing in free agency.

Now, maybe I'm wrong and Barkov is a super-loyal guy whose main priority is to play his whole career with the team that drafted him. But if I were him I'd be looking to get out of Florida sooner rather than later.

The decision to deal Trocheck had a lot to do with finances, yes, but I don't think it was purely based on that. This is not the first time Tallon has dealt away a player who was perceived as not meeting expectations. Also, even after the deal they have less than $3 million in cap room. Dadonov and Hoffman are both UFA after this season, and at present they and Haula take up more than $10 million. What I'm reading is that they needed the cap room to re-up at least one of those guys, if not both (or all three). Also, they have Henrik Borgstrom in the AHL. His AHL numbers look rather ordinary but maybe they're banking on him being a star. I know there's been a ton of hype about him after he was drafted.

That said, I think Viola and his Army buddies are all flaky as hell and not a ton better than previous FLA bosses (and that's why I think that franchise is doomed and will relocate eventually) so I would not rule out them ruining everything and just arbitrarily ordering that payroll be slashed again, but I think Barkov is the very last player they deal away.

 

[cgf]

Here lies my problem. I don't think the bolded is true at all...at least not for the past few months.

Anyway obviously we disagree on how important it was to lose that "advantage" considering how well the team is doing both offensively and defensively this season so agree to disagree. FTR I wasn't playing dumb. Calling it "creating a hole" just didn't sit right with me. Then reading once more about the "Sakic lover" shit that "sent me over the edge" lol.

I'm ready to let it be water under the bridge and go back to current programming which is how well our new acquisition Tyson Yost played for us last night.

If you weren't playing dumb then I just don't understand why you kept using our pre-Makar blueline to set up a strawman comparison. Me & Sea Eagles were discussing the team that we had had last postseason; a point I tried to clarify repeatedly included all three of Makar, Barrie & Girard; yet you kept going back to the regular season #s to argue against something I never once suggested.

And you can follow the quotes yourself. I didn't start getting pissy until after you felt compelled to include this nugget, in the middle of your tangent about how awesome last summer was...as though I have ever said I was anything but happy with Joe's summer...

Yeah again what you are saying doesn't make sense but I forgot you tend to discard Barrie's defensive play quite a bit to make your point.

Re-reading the chain; I am even more confused by what you were doing if not just trolling *shrug* You jumped in with a defense of Sakic -- when no one was criticizing him -- after misrepresenting what I was saying; while using parameters that were in no way relevant to the discussion SE & I were having. And then you started getting snippy & threw out that jab -- well before I ever mentioned anything about Sakic lovers -- only to turn around & claim I'm the one doing the antagonizing. No s*** you're willing to let this be water under the bridge lol...but sure, let's see if we can't all be more civil moving forward.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

If you weren't playing dumb then I just don't understand why you kept using our pre-Makar blueline to set up a strawman comparison. Me & Sea Eagles were discussing the team that we had had last postseason; a point I tried to clarify repeatedly included all three of Makar, Barrie & Girard; yet you kept going back to the regular season #s to argue against something I never once suggested.

And you can follow the quotes yourself. I didn't start getting pissy until after you felt compelled to include this nugget, in the middle of your tangent about how awesome last summer was...as though I have ever said I was anything but happy with Joe's summer...


Re-reading the chain; I am even more confused by what you were doing if not just trolling *shrug* You jumped in with a defense of Sakic -- when no one was criticizing him -- after misrepresenting what I was saying; while using parameters that were in no way relevant to the discussion SE & I were having. And then you started getting snippy & threw out that jab -- well before I ever mentioned anything about Sakic lovers -- only to turn around & claim I'm the one doing the antagonizing. No s*** you're willing to let this be water under the bridge lol...but sure, let's see if we can't all be more civil moving forward.

Ok I get why you got pissy. I shouldn't have been that antagonist with my comment but then come back at me about Barrie's play not about the usual Sakic lover crap.

Anyway I'm done with this. If you can't see why I included this season's regular games after all the posts I wrote then I don't see how I can make you understand. Go right ahead and keep thinking a hole was created or lost some type of advantage like you called it.

Cheers!

 

[Gatorbait19]

They would never. Never. Never trade Barkov... but if they did make him available I'd do Byram + Newhook + 1st + 1st pretty easily for him.


Dont think a purely futures package gets it done however. It would take Rantanen+.

I’m a panthers (or at least was until the ripped my heart out for the thousandth time this week).

Barkov is an incredible player. But I’m not giving up Byram + Newhook + 2 firsts for him. I’d consider Rantanen + 1st but no more.

 

[Foppa2118]

Barkov may be a big upgrade on Kadri, but with Kadri in the lineup, I don't think they would move Rantanen to get Barkov.

The point production is basically the same (80-90 points) but Mikko is a winger, and has great chemistry with the Avs best player in MacKinnon.

Since they have a 2C, Mikko would be more important to the team IMO.

 

[MarkT]

The decision to deal Trocheck had a lot to do with finances, yes, but I don't think it was purely based on that. This is not the first time Tallon has dealt away a player who was perceived as not meeting expectations. Also, even after the deal they have less than $3 million in cap room. Dadonov and Hoffman are both UFA after this season, and at present they and Haula take up more than $10 million. What I'm reading is that they needed the cap room to re-up at least one of those guys, if not both (or all three). Also, they have Henrik Borgstrom in the AHL. His AHL numbers look rather ordinary but maybe they're banking on him being a star. I know there's been a ton of hype about him after he was drafted.

That said, I think Viola and his Army buddies are all flaky as hell and not a ton better than previous FLA bosses (and that's why I think that franchise is doomed and will relocate eventually) so I would not rule out them ruining everything and just arbitrarily ordering that payroll be slashed again, but I think Barkov is the very last player they deal away.

Okay, and what if all the UFAs walk and aren't replaced? That's a realistic scenario. If that happens how long do you think Barkov stays (unless he's insanely loyal of course)?

 

[Pokecheque]

Okay, and what if all the UFAs walk and aren't replaced? That's a realistic scenario. If that happens how long do you think Barkov stays (unless he's insanely loyal of course)?

I agree, this could blow up in Tallon's face worse than when he just plain forgot to fax in qualifying offers to the League office in time.

I still think Barkov is the last guy to go, unless he flat-out spurns the Cats, and I think that's a rare occurrence in sports (unless you're the goddamned Rockies). There's a reasonable argument already that he's the greatest Panther of all time. If they honestly lose him, they just need to move the franchise and be done with it. I honestly think THAT happens before they lose Barkov.

 

[MarkT]

I agree, this could blow up in Tallon's face worse than when he just plain forgot to fax in qualifying offers to the League office in time.

I still think Barkov is the last guy to go, unless he flat-out spurns the Cats, and I think that's a rare occurrence in sports (unless you're the goddamned Rockies). There's a reasonable argument already that he's the greatest Panther of all time. If they honestly lose him, they just need to move the franchise and be done with it. I honestly think THAT happens before they lose Barkov.

I think the best comparison is the John Tavares situation. A great, highly drafted center, team captain, face of the franchise, who nonetheless got frustrated with losing and poor ownership and left in free agency. If anyone had talked about trading for Tavares two years before he actually did leave, the reaction likely would be the same we're seeing to anyone suggesting trading for Barkov is realistic. I'm sure plenty of people here would have said "Tavares isn't leaving the Islanders" with the same sense of certainty they now say "Barkov isn't leaving Florida".

 

[AvsGuy]

Ludicrous stuff in this thread

Rantanen is as borderline elite as you can get. His injury struggles do not mean we add top tier prospects TO him in a trade for an elite center. We don’t need an elite center. We don’t particularly need an elite anything - what we need are good complimentary players, and Rantanen is as good as one gets

Barkov is fantastic but at that cost, gigantic no thank you