Post-Game Talk (GBU): Trade Deadline Edition

[Jame]

We'll see what you think of Stewart in a year. Blues fans tried to warn us.

I'm sorry that I don't find an 18 year old who is 30 games removed from being a fourth round pick knocked for his consistency issues to be the surefire top 6 player everyone around here has him pegged as. I think "question mark" is a pretty apt term. He could turn out well, he could be a bust, the opinions of 30 NHL GMs who passed on him with their third last spring has some weight for me. For the record, no one here mentioned either Fasching or Deslauriers until we got them. I hardly think I'm alone in not knowing much about the kid.

Imagine if all Fasching's flaws as a high school kid, led him to not being drafted at all... he'd be in the draft this year, and he'd go in the first round.

If we traded Moulson for a 2014 1st... you would praise the move
Then we draft Fasching in the late 1st... and you would love him

 

[Karate Johnson*]

We'll see what you think of Stewart in a year. Blues fans tried to warn us.

I'm sorry that I don't find an 18 year old who is 30 games removed from being a fourth round pick knocked for his consistency issues to be the surefire top 6 player everyone around here has him pegged as. I think "question mark" is a pretty apt term. He could turn out well, he could be a bust, the opinions of 30 NHL GMs who passed on him with their third last spring has some weight for me. For the record, no one here mentioned either Fasching or Deslauriers until we got them. I hardly think I'm alone in not knowing much about the kid.

I'm going to defer to Tim Murray, the guy constantly praises for his scouting an. Talent evaluation, who has seen them both.


You know what's more of a question mark? The 2nd rounders he cost.


You're mad Murray traded ffor a player he actually wanted instead of keeping second rounders to draft a guy he wanted. I that about right? Do you see how illogical that is?

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Also, it's irrelevant where a guy was drafted after the fact. A guys resume changes from that moment. What a player is worth at a given time can easily change in a year.

 

[joshjull]

We'll see what you think of Stewart in a year. Blues fans tried to warn us.

I'm sorry that I don't find an 18 year old who is 30 games removed from being a fourth round pick knocked for his consistency issues to be the surefire top 6 player everyone around here has him pegged as. I think "question mark" is a pretty apt term. He could turn out well, he could be a bust, the opinions of 30 NHL GMs who passed on him with their third last spring has some weight for me. For the record, no one here mentioned either Fasching or Deslauriers until we got them. I hardly think I'm alone in not knowing much about the kid.

Who are you Bucky? Thats the most irrelevant argument you've thrown out.

He was trending up prior to his draft year, had a tough year his draft year and is back on the path he was on prior.

And as Jame said, you are going to be flipping out a lot going forward as the team/organization is built up. Value trades are not going to be the goal.

 

[Heraldic]

Also, it's irrelevant where a guy was drafted after the fact. A guys resume changes from that moment. What a player is worth at a given time can easily change in a year.

Yeah. You could make a really long list about (at least close to) franchise cornerstone players who were passed at least one time by every team.

 

[Ethan Edwards]

I'm sorry that I don't find an 18 year old who is 30 games removed from being a fourth round pick knocked for his consistency issues to be the surefire top 6 player everyone around here has him pegged as. I think "question mark" is a pretty apt term. He could turn out well, he could be a bust, the opinions of 30 NHL GMs who passed on him with their third last spring has some weight for me.

He's maybe redeemed his stock from 4th rounder back to 2nd, is what I hear people saying about him. Not sure how that's worth 2 seconds.

Two days of this opinion on this board. I don't get it.

"Surefire" Top 6? Projected Top 6 as of right now, absolutely, but surefire? I don't know anyone saying that.

I keep reading that it was a bad trade with poor return because Fasching was a 4th rounder and we gave up 2 seconds for him, and ~1 year ago he was deemed a 4th round talent by 30 GMs. That is horrible analysis if that's all there is to it and seems to completely ignore the development process of 18 year olds. Some plateau, some increase slowly, some decline, some explode, etc. Fasching exploded. If you've seen him play (seems most haven't, which is fine), particularly lately for the Gophers, and you don't value him in March 2014 to be worthy of two seconds, then fair enough. Same thing goes if there's a person out there who has seen him play THIS SEASON, who deems him a 2nd rounder at best, and who you respect. I vehemently disagree and I just can't fathom how someone wouldn't see him as a solid 1st rounder RIGHT NOW, but that's another subject and I'd respect that opinion.

But if your only argument is he's 30 games removed from being valued as a 4th rounder, and you haven't actually seen him play, then that's a pretty big head scratcher. Most have caught games with him during the WJC, and he was excellent, but I can tell you from seeing him in person as recently as this past weekend and several other times this season that he's even better RIGHT NOW. He would be at the very, very least a late 1st rounder if judged RIGHT NOW. Sure, he may fizzle and flop, and sure you may not trust my judgment (or Murray's), but for two 2nd rounders, who are arguably even bigger crap shoots (likely less material with which to judge), it's an easy, easy decision. If the position of some is that the two 2nds are simply assets to use to move up, then move up to what? A first rounder? An already developing asset? Well, we did. His name is Hudson Fasching and he's killing it as a Freshman under a great coach, in a great program, in the Big 10 against stellar competition, as a 1st line winger on a team ranked #1 for most of the year.

Yes, he could succeed or fail. That's true of all prospects. But regardless of how this turns out in the future, at this moment this is an excellent trade.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

I'm going to watch him Friday and Saturday. Looking forward to it.

 

[Sabretooth]

I like consolidating the kings and Wild deals, kinda pretend it was a 3-way deal

(Fasching, Deslauriers, Mitchell) = (Moulson, McCormick, McNabb, Parker)

(LAK 2014 2nd-round pick + LAK 2015 2nd-round pick) > (WPG 2014 2nd-round pick + MIN 2016 2nd-round pick)

Fasching > Moulson when you consider Fasching is now under team control for a while and Moulson could have walked
McCormick, McNabb, Parker > Deslauriers, Mitchell probably but who cares we didn't give up NHL players IMO
We clearly upgraded our 2nd round picks - 2015 LAK == 2016 MIN, 2014 WPG >>> 2014 LAK

We got Fasching + an upgrade on 2nd rnd picks for Moulson, as far as I'm concerned. Seems pretty fair to me, for a rental UFA. The rest is just moving around warm bodies that likely weren't/aren't part of the future anyways.

 

[Ethan Edwards]

I'm going to watch him Friday and Saturday. Looking forward to it.

You of course know what's going to happen, right? After all of our typing he's going to go 0-0-0, -4, have 6 PIM lead to two goals against, score an own-goal, get dropped by a 5'7" 4th liner, and be benched for the 3rd period.

 

[Paxon]

What? A pair of seconds is as much as vanek returned. The only reason the board is cool with this is because we're totally trusting Murray's judgment. But yeah, this kid is a huge question mark for me. If he never got offered a pro contract, I couldn't say I'd be surprised.

Would you rather have acquired Vanek?

You don't make any sense. Vanek acquired Collberg. Fasching == Collberg. What's the problem exactly?

 

[Karate Johnson*]

You of course know what's going to happen, right? After all of our typing he's going to go 0-0-0, -4, have 6 PIM lead to two goals against, score an own-goal, get dropped by a 5'7" 4th liner, and be benched for the 3rd period.

Yup. Career ending injury impending.

 

[JLewyB]

Wow we clearly lucked out by getting most of our pieces out before this trade deadline. Teams must be looking at Chicago and Detroit and see how to stay contending year after year by not burning your firsts like its Weimar money. It's a new world of asset responsibility. Teams who are rebuilding are more likely to trade players with term on it to get good value. Owners like Pegula who are willing to retain salary are going to be major assets to their organization when it comes to trading.

Hopefully, we adjust and start doing more hockey trades with likes of Stewart and Stafford in the summer as opposed to waiting for deadline and watching sellers wait us out for cheap value.

For the sellers this year, Sabres did the best because they got good value out of the Miller/Ott trade-looks like St Louis overpaid. Made a hockey trade with LA-fair value. Compared to Vanek, Camellari, Hemsky and Gaborik, the Moulson deal looks like we got the closest value to expectations going into yesterday. As for the Halak deal, he had no value to us as rental goalie on team that is all but eliminated from the playoffs. So I don't factor him into the trade, Neuvy+Kesla >3rd rounder...I think.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Really? 23 years old and in his third AHL season, switching positions just now to try and revitalize his career? Depth guy at best, don't you think? Luke Adam has the better pedigree at this point.



I'm just saying you can get a backup goaltender on a one year deal in UFA. I don't consider that a valuable asset for us going forwards. If he flees to the KHL, it doesn't affect us, really. We have to sign a guy in the offseason, is all.

So yeah, I'm not counting depth guys and backups as something valuable we got yesterday. You go the trade route to acquire valuable pieces for your team moving forward, not fill-ins. Fill-ins can be had for free.

Just admit you have no clue about the prospects we acquired in the trades, and move on. Have you even watched them play one shift? If not it's best to give your fingers a rest, and hope Murray did his homework...which I trust he did.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

I just don't understand the arguement.

Trading two picks for two prospects: gotta trust Murray

Drafting two prospects for two picks: gotta trust Murray.



Is it just not having those picks? Comfort in the unknown? It just doesn't make any sense. It's not like he traded a top 5 pick.

 

[couture23]

I just don't understand the arguement.

Trading two picks for two prospects: gotta trust Murray

Drafting two prospects for two picks: gotta trust Murray.



Is it just not having those picks? Comfort in the unknown? It just doesn't make any sense. It's not like he traded a top 5 pick.

Exactly. Especially with a less than impressive draft class I'll trade those picks for a guy tearing up the NCAA with his frame.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Wow we clearly lucked out by getting most of our pieces out before this trade deadline.

I was concerned about trading Ott with Miller so far before the deadline, but it turned out to be the best case scenario, because I imagine we'll end up with 2 first rounders out of the deal

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

We'll see what you think of Stewart in a year. Blues fans tried to warn us.

In a year, it won't matter. I really doubt that Murray feels stewart has a spot on this team in the years to come. He is a warm body to fill out the roster while we continue to suck into next year and possibly the year after. We flip him in a year for picks.



Over all I am content with yesterday's moves. Murray made some risky moves, but if they payoff he'll look like a genius. If they fail, what did we really lose? McNabb? A few second and third round picks in drafts where we are loaded with first and second round picks? We are still in a position to succeed and the risk is there, but minimal in my assessment.

Also, to answer the question as to whether we are done with the roster teardown: yes. Mostly. I think we have eliminated all of the Rochester core, which were meant to be our first and second line guys. Only Ennis and Stafford really remain from that group. I am still counting on Leino has a buy out this offseason.

 

[joshjull]

In a year, it won't matter. I really doubt that Murray feels stewart has a spot on this team in the years to come. He is a warm body to fill out the roster while we continue to suck into next year and possibly the year after. We flip him in a year for picks.



Over all I am content with yesterday's moves. Murray made some risky moves, but if they payoff he'll look like a genius. If they fail, what did we really lose? McNabb? A few second and third round picks in drafts where we are loaded with first and second round picks? We are still in a position to succeed and the risk is there, but minimal in my assessment.

Also, to answer the question as to whether we are done with the roster teardown: yes. Mostly. I think we have eliminated all of the Rochester core, which were meant to be our first and second line guys. Only Ennis and Stafford really remain from that group. I am still counting on Leino has a buy out this offseason.

Exactly. Murray is getting his vet filler now (add Mitchell/Neuvrith/Conacher to this) and will continue to in the summer. As opposed to Regier who really never did apart from Tallinder.