total waste of time

[Brent Burns Beard]

What a waste of time.

The PA will not negotiate anything related to linkage, period end of story. So this is all a waste of time ? Anyone here think the NHL has come this far only to change their mind on linkage ? I sure don’t.

Whether you agree with the PA's position, and I know many don’t. The fact is they are going to be stubborn and reject all proposals that have linkage. I hope no one is getting their hopes up that there will be a season.

So, who here thinks the NHL will capitulate ? I sure don’t. The NHL will be back when one side completely capitulates. Im voting that doesn’t happen until 2006. Its going to cost the PA jobs and its going to cost the NHL franchises and neither side cares enough to give in a little today.

What a bunch of bafoons. If the NHL had taken a different negotiating tactic, the players would probably be willing to throw BG overboard, but instead the players have been galvanized in opposition to Bettman.

You don’t want a cap ? No problem, we arent offering a cap, we are demanding a triple cap.

DR

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[Pepper]

What a bunch of bafoons. If the NHL had taken a different negotiating tactic, the players would probably be willing to throw BG overboard, but instead the players have been galvanized in opposition to Bettman.

If the players had realized that they are not going to win this fight they would have taken the owners best offer and make good money.

Instead they are most likely to get even less money and will lose 5-10% of their jobs.

 

[AdvDave]

What the hell is a triple cap? The owners offered a cap at 42 million. A salary cap is a salary cap. You can't have three of them.

 

[Injektilo]

let them go through the motions. at the least, maybe they'll make some start on settling somethign for the start of next year.
they're gonna cancel the season after the weekend anyway, so who cares if they meet for a couple days. it can't hurt can it?

 

[417]

If both sides were really willing to stand their ground, they would of cancelled the season weeks ago...at least IMO

 

[wazee]

If the NHLPA would propose a hard cap of say...42M...not linked to revenue or anything else...just a flat 42M...no exceptions...I think the owners would jump on it. Unfortunately, the players are screaming 'We will never play under a cap'.

I have always thought that linkage was merely something the owners proposed to make a hard cap look like the better alternative.

 

[ScottyBowman]

If the NHLPA would propose a hard cap of say...42M...not linked to revenue or anything else...just a flat 42M...no exceptions...I think the owners would jump on it. Unfortunately, the players are screaming 'We will never play under a cap'.

I have always thought that linkage was merely something the owners proposed to make a hard cap look like the better alternative.

Exactly. If the nhl said "$45 mil hard cap, $35 mil floor", it would have been over by now. I don't care about that linkage crap anyway. Those are fictional numbers created by the owners to fool the masses.

 

[Crazy Lunatic]

Exactly. If the nhl said "$45 mil hard cap, $35 mil floor", it would have been over by now. I don't care about that linkage crap anyway. Those are fictional numbers created by the owners to fool the masses.

You are saying the players would have accepted that? I sure as heck don't think they would have. If what you are saying is true and the players will accept a cap not linked to revenues, then there *will* be a season because theres no way the owners wouldn't accept that. I think they would have accepted a 55-60 million dollar cap to hand cuff the rangers, leafs, avalanche, stars, red wings, etc. Once you get a cap in a CBA its impossible to get out (thats what I keep hearing anyway) so I;m sure the owners would jump all over any type of cap with two way arbitration and worry about the detailes next time around.

 

[wazee]

Exactly. If the nhl said "$45 mil hard cap, $35 mil floor", it would have been over by now. I don't care about that linkage crap anyway. Those are fictional numbers created by the owners to fool the masses.

I see no indication that the NHLPA would be willing to accept your offer. They are still dead set against a cap of any kind. Should they ever change their mind and offer your numbers to the NHL, the owners will accept in a heartbeat. But the players will not.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

You are saying the players would have accepted that? I sure as heck don't think they would have. If what you are saying is true and the players will accept a cap not linked to revenues, then there *will* be a season because theres no way the owners wouldn't accept that. I think they would have accepted a 55-60 million dollar cap to hand cuff the rangers, leafs, avalanche, stars, red wings, etc. Once you get a cap in a CBA its impossible to get out (thats what I keep hearing anyway) so I;m sure the owners would jump all over any type of cap with two way arbitration and worry about the detailes next time around.

i disagree .. the owners want linkage, not a cap. they just happen to know linkage works exactly like a cap.

if the owners thought this would get it done, why havent they offered it ?

dr

 

[gobuds]

forget the cap- take away guaranteed contracts, make em play to get paid....that will settle this.

 

[ScottyBowman]

You are saying the players would have accepted that? I sure as heck don't think they would have. If what you are saying is true and the players will accept a cap not linked to revenues, then there *will* be a season because theres no way the owners wouldn't accept that. I think they would have accepted a 55-60 million dollar cap to hand cuff the rangers, leafs, avalanche, stars, red wings, etc. Once you get a cap in a CBA its impossible to get out (thats what I keep hearing anyway) so I;m sure the owners would jump all over any type of cap with two way arbitration and worry about the detailes next time around.

Yes. I think the players would accept a cap in the mid to upper 40's. They don't want linkage because the owners are great at cooking up fictional numbers. If the owners took the average of all the payrolls last year and offered that as a cap, I'd be on the owners side. This linkage, revenue/profit sharing is all a sham by the owners to gauarantee them profits. Most importantly, I'd never trust their numbers.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

forget the cap- take away guaranteed contracts, make em play to get paid....that will settle this.

good idea, then PHI can just walk away from Leclair and use that 9m to actually sign good players.

yup, that will really help balance teams out !

dr

 

[Habber]

If the players think they can come out of this without a cap of some sort they're crazy. I would think that by the way some of the players were talking the last couple weeks, they're ready to accept a cap without linkage, and as it stands that is really the best deal they can hope for right now. IMO the issue right now is will the owners go for cap without linkage or not.

If the season is lost, I can't see how the owners will move forward without linkage. The players should be trying to negotiate a cap without linkage right now, or else the money they stand to make will drop drastically.

 

[Luc Labelle]

Goodenow has a reputation as a deadline dealer. On the surface of things the two sides are further apart than they ever have been. When asked how long it would take to draft documents for a CBA that has been agreed on BG mentioned it would normally take 2 weeks to complete. With Bettman's mandate that the agreement be memorialized this weekend Goodenow responded to the reporter that to complete it over the weekend would be daunting but possible.

The NHL with each subsequent proposal to the NHLPA has only strenghtened the linkage aspect of their offers while throwing in a carrot (negotiated profit sharing) and a couple of rotten tomatoes (retractable arbitration, 14 day signing deadline). So I am sure the NHL will never give in on the linkage aspect. Therefore it is in Goodenow's best interest to make his best deal this weekend. A cancelled season will result in a dramatic decline of the 2.1 billion dollar pie which would make the NHL's desire for cost certainty only stronger.

Goodenow should concentrate on the profit-sharing aspect and put in a clause that has a minimum average team salary to protect the players from the expected economic fallout. Then the NHL and NHLPA will have a vested interest in growing the game. If the league's revenues double, the player's salaries will also double. In addition to that since the NHL has determined that approximately 55% linkage to revenue will ensure profitability then the profit-sharing threshold will more easily be surpassed.

Ultimately, the owners and the players will both win. More importantly, the NHL and NHLPA becoming partners in the entertainment business of hockey will realize that the on-ice product will have to be significantly improved. Thus, we the fans will also be winners.

I do think Bob Goodenow is a smart man. The fact he even mentioned the posibility of legally drafting an agreement over two days that would normally take two weeks instead of ignoring the question points to the fact that he knows he is close to a framework for an agreement. By late tomorrow I figure the NHLPA will announce an agreement in principle. Profit-sharing will be a key.

 

[Crazy Lunatic]

i disagree .. the owners want linkage, not a cap. they just happen to know linkage works exactly like a cap.

if the owners thought this would get it done, why havent they offered it ?

dr

Bill Daly was asked about a week ago, when Healy and others started floating the "NHLPA would accept a cap but not linkage" and Daly said the league would be willing to work with that but he thought the NHLPA had no interest in it. Last week, a lot of the union shills were floating this concept, but that has been nipped in the bud. I guess the players smell blood in the water and have decided against compromise.

 

[txomisc]

i disagree .. the owners want linkage, not a cap. they just happen to know linkage works exactly like a cap.

if the owners thought this would get it done, why havent they offered it ?

dr

weren't the owners initial offers strictly caps(albeit it low ones)?

 

[Mountain Dude]

Exactly. If the nhl said "$45 mil hard cap, $35 mil floor", it would have been over by now. I don't care about that linkage crap anyway. Those are fictional numbers created by the owners to fool the masses.

Where the hell have you been?

 

[Greschner4]

Bill Daly was asked about a week ago, when Healy and others started floating the "NHLPA would accept a cap but not linkage" and Daly said the league would be willing to work with that but he thought the NHLPA had no interest in it. Last week, a lot of the union shills were floating this concept, but that has been nipped in the bud. I guess the players smell blood in the water and have decided against compromise.

Every union shill also floated the "take the PA system and if doesn't work the PA will take a cap" garbage over and over and that was also a fraud.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Every union shill also floated the "take the PA system and if doesn't work the PA will take a cap" garbage over and over and that was also a fraud.

why dont you back up this claim.

first, identify and qualify "ever union shill" and then prove that each one of them floated this idea.

finally, prove that anyone other than Bob and the executive have any say in the matter regardless.

dr