Torres or Gaborik?

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Bookman, Jan 21, 2004.

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  1. Bookman

    Bookman Registered User

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    Who would have thought a year ago that half way through the season that Raffi Torres would have 3 times as many goals as Marian Gaborik? I have only seen Torres once, but was impressed by what I saw. Gabby is getting plenty of chances, but isn't scoring - of course, none of the Wild are really scoring much either. I'm not saying I'd swap, but maybe some of you would.

    The leading scorers from 1st round, 2000 draft - Heatley's abscence is understandable, but emphasizes the difference from a year ago:

    1. Frolov 14G 15A 29PTS.
    2. Williams 6G 20A 26PTS.
    3. Torres 15G 9A 24PTS.
    4. Hartnell 11G 8A 19PTS.
    5. Gaborik 5G 8A 13PTS.
     
  2. helicecopter

    helicecopter Registered User

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    I'm definitely not one of those who would swap. Do they exist at all?
     
  3. Russian_fanatic

    Russian_fanatic Registered User

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    well out of those i would take Frolov . Gaborik proved to everyone he holds out for money and I have no respect for him .
     
  4. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    You're not making any sense.

    All I can think right now is that you must not like a lot of NHL players.
     
  5. AJ1982

    AJ1982 Registered User

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  6. Boondock Saint

    Boondock Saint Registered User

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    I am a Oilers fan and perhaps the largest Torres homer on these boards........ but I would still take Gaborik in a second.

    "One half season a career does not make...." - Aristotle :rolly:
     
  7. Slats432

    Slats432 Registered User

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    Paul Coffey
    Doug Weight
    Ryan Smyth
    Martin Havlat
    Mike Comrie
    Mike Peca
    Alexei Yashin

    Anyone want to create a master list of holdouts...the guy might not end up liking anyone...lol. :joker:
     
  8. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    And let's not forget holdouts are just the guys who cannot come to terms with their teams. Doesn't mean they prioritize money much more than the guys who do come to terms with their shady tactics :D

    I just think it's very unfair to judge Gaborik (a guy who came off an AWESOME performance in his rookie contract and just signed a second) against Frolov (a guy doing reasonably well in his first contract and who has yet to renegociate his second deal) on the basis that one held out.

    No, scratch that. It's not unfair, it's misguided, shortsighted and childish.

    I am now more and more inclined to believe that a great many posters who come to HF simply have a beef with almost EVERY established NHLers. So they come here to root for unestablished guys still living trying to accomplish the hockey dream. They live quick honeymoon with prospects, then as they get older they dump them in the pile of established players and take new guys to root for.

    If you look hard enough and nitpick, there's ALWAYS a reason not to like a player.
    So in the end you get guys who don't like:

    1- young players who carried a franchise on their backs because they held out to get a fraction of the cash they deserve compared to more established players (Gaborik)

    2-Players who demand entry money according to what everybody else demands and GETS (Ruutu)

    3-Players who DO NOT hold out, who DO negociate honorable deals themselves without a cockroache-agent, because they comment on other goalies in a newspaper column (Brodeur)

    4-Players who play too hard (Peca)

    5-Players who don't play hard enough (Sundin)

    6-Dirty mean russians because they aren't emotional enough (Yashin)

    7-Dirty, mean russians because they are too emotional (Kovalchuk)

    8-Small players who play with grit and talent because they hold out (Comrie)

    9-Fan oriented players who celebrate goals with the crowd, speak their minds and exudes great talent while expressing REAL, CONCRETE issues the league should deal with (Roenick)

    10-Players who do not play through injuries (Malakhov)

    11-Players who play through injuries and are supposedly finished (Yzerman)

    12-Players who are too old. Because it apparently doesn't matter how you play in the NHL. If you're too old you should just retire. It's a sort of moron-fan unwritten law (Messier, Chelios)

    In fact. You look long enough and they won't like anybody or anything because there's always a controversial article being written for simpletons to go on an unsubstantiated rant.

    The Wings are too rich, Eric Lindros is too concussed, CUJO doesn't win enough Stanley Cups in this 30-team league, the Devils are too defensive, Hitchcock is too big, Parise is not big enough, Brashear doesn't fight enough, Nash scores too much.

    This league really sucks! :p
     
  9. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Registered User

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    Plus, in the Gaborik situation, it was more a matter of a greedy agent posturing to bleed the Wild for every last cent. It took 3 agents (2 fired from the same agency, one brought in from the outside) to get Gabby the original deal that was offered to him to begin with. That doesn't sound like greed to me.
     
  10. NyCoN

    NyCoN Instant Contender

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    Very good point! His first couple of agents were a couple of greedy b*st*rds!
     
  11. Chelios

    Chelios Registered User

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    I think that if anyone says they would take anyone other than Gaborik out of these guys it means one of two things: 1) the hate Gaborik for some reason 2) one of their favourite players is listed or 3) they just have no idea what they are talking about. Gaborik is the only one of these players that has shown he can dominate this league.

    That being said, Scott Hartnell would be the second guy I`d take. Love the way he plays, his leadership, toughness and he can put points on the board as well.
     
  12. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    Torres is having a great year but I would easily take Gaborik.
     
  13. The Jerk*

    The Jerk* Guest

    how could you forget Tkachuk, it used to be a yearly thing with him, but he was different, he'd hold-out even though he was under contract.
     
  14. Hellström

    Hellström Registered User

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    I´m an Oilerfan and i love Torres, but Gaborik is miles ahead (despite his slump)
     
  15. Luigi Lemieux

    Luigi Lemieux Registered User

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    there's really no excuse for gaborik to be doing this bad.

    to put it in perspective, m.lemieux left the game for 4 years only to come back midseason and score 76 pts in 43 games
     
  16. Big Bill

    Big Bill Registered User

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    Gaborik is not lemieux. He is one of the 2 or 3 best players EVER. An otherworldly talent. Horrible comparison
     
  17. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    I don't think it's meant as a litteral comparison.

    And let's be fair, while Lemieux is an otherworldly talent he came back from an OTHERWORDLY hiatus. Four years is not four weeks :p

    As for the problem at hand: Does Gaborik has an excuse? Depends. It is very well-known that certain players DO experience problems when they hold out or miss training camp. People can say they have no excuses and cite examples (many more relevant than Lemieux) as to why they have no excuses but the fact will remain that some do.

    Certain players do experience problems and others don't. Trying to figure why is a much more complicated issue and would require too much speculation for me.
     
  18. Samsonites

    Samsonites Registered User

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    not a fair comparison

    I don't know why you would actually compare Torres to Gaborik. I think Gaborik is one or 2 levels above Torres in terms of potential.
     
  19. Oiler94

    Oiler94 Registered User

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    Same with me
     
  20. Porn*

    Porn* Registered User

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    what a joke comparison

    who would you rather...

    Bertuzzi or Worrell? LOL

    well... maybe not as bad. but still brutal.
     
  21. Bookman

    Bookman Registered User

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    This topic strikes some of you as absurd - really, I just thought it interesting to compare the draft of 2000 last year, which was dominated by Heatley and Gaborik, and this season.

    However, I am somewhat concerned about Gaborik - he had a good playoff, but the second half of last season was much like the first half for him; few goals, few points. I don't have the exact numbers, but he's probably got about 12 goals over his last 80 regular season games; sure he draws all the attention of the opponents, but shouldn't great players be able to overcome that?
     
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