Toronto vs Edmonton vs Pitt vs Washington - Who should blow up their core (top 2 forwards)?

[bobholly39]

All 4 teams are in different stages, yet somehow in pretty similar situation all things considered.

Pittsburgh - Crosby/Malkin. Probably top 2 playoff performer of their eras. Multiple Conn Smythes, 3 cups, and many more very strong playoff runs. Back to back cups not too long ago, followed by a respectable 2 round effort vs cup champs in 2018. But since then, embarrassing sweep vs NYI in 2019, pathetic effort in play-ins last year - better all around effort in round 1 this year, yet again out in round 1. Malkin was real bad in 2019, downright pathetic last year, a bit better this year though. Crosby bad in 2019, so-so last year, not too bad start this playoff but real bad at end. The core is getting older - and they have one of the worst prospect pools in the league (possibly the absolute worst). Should they keep Crosby + Malkin and try again next year, or try and trade one/both to kickstart a massive rebuild/retool while they still have high value?

Washington - Ovechkin/Backstrom. Not that dissimilar from Pittsburgh. They don't quite have the historical track record, with only 1 cup in Ovi era (and just once past round 2) - but if you look back to 2018, they won a cup in dominating fashion. They also won their division I believe 5 years in a row (just missing this year), so always are a strong contender. Since 2018 though - out in 2019 in a very hard fought round 1 battle. Real bad showing in 2020 playoffs in round 1 - and probably even worst this year. Ovechkin is still performing real well in the season, scoring a lot of goals, and did real well in 2019 playoffs, but was disappointing in 2020 playoffs, and again this year. Backstrom also good in 2019, but pretty damn bad past 2 years. Ovechkin is UFA now too, and will probably ask for high $$ and likely for multiple years. What should Washington too - should they bring back Ovi + keep Backstrom and try again next year? Or do they go for a major overhaul, letting Ovi walk and/or trading Backstrom to try and rebuild/major retool?

Toronto - Matthews/Marner. These two have become among the best forwards in the league in recent years. Matthews has probably earned the mantle of 'best goal scorer in league' - and Marner has now scored 3 seasons in a row at a 90+ point pace, among league leaders. Leafes just choked in round 1, big time. Very embarrassing loss after being up 3-1, and both Matthews and Marner played real bad in second half of round 1. Toronto fans are clearly frustrated with lack of winning with these guys. That being said - they're both still very young and extremely talented - but also hold very high trade value. What should Leafs do - do they keep both Marner/Matthews and try again next year, or should they trade one/both for very high return to kickstart a major retool of team?

Edmonton - Draisaitl + McDavid. Draisaitl just had a season for the ages last year sweeping awards - and McDavid bested him this year, probably a season worthy of historical mention. On a good day - you might argue they're the top 2 players in the world. McDavid certainly#1, with Drai not far behind. Yet they just got swept in round 1 against a team they had annihilated in the season (in last 4 reg season matches vs Jets, Oilers 4-0, 16-4 in goals, McDavid 11 points). Moreso than even the Toronto players - we know these two are great players with especially crazy high trade value (McDavid especially). Despite the talent - for years the story is the same in Edmonton - no team depth, they can't win with just those 2 (McDrai also didn't do well individually in these playoffs, especially McDavid). If Edmonton did a major move, it'd probably be a lot less about wanting to get rid of either guy, and more about maximizing a really high return to reshape the face of the team. So - what should Oilers do? Keep McDavid + Drai and try again next year, or trade one of them (or both) for a king's ransom to try and kickstart a major retool/re-shaping of team?

This is specific to the duos in question. Among those 4 teams - who should keep their power duo intact vs trade at least 1 for a major retool?

I'm sure all 4 teams/fanbases are disappointed and may want to do other major changes/overhauls to the core outside of these duos - but the poll question here is specific to these duos, and not other changes you may do.

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[Bouboumaster]

IMO it's Edmonton.

All the other teams at least has some depth. Edmonton doesn't. They need it.
McDrai is the best player in the World, and a top player in the World together, but they can't half an hour each.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Pens and Washington with some savvy GMing could get into a position to win a cup again but the likelihood is very low. I'd bottom out again if I was them. Move the stars for a truck full of picks and prospects.

Edmonton and Toronto are young and they have their cores, both teams made their bed you don't split that up to be mediocre you build around it and fix it at this point in their careers. These young guys need to take a page from MacKinnon if they haven't already and get a sports psychologist, if they haven't done diet research yet that as well.

 

[bobholly39]

Pens and Washington with some savvy GMing could get into a position to win a cup again but the likelihood is very low. I'd bottom out again if I was them. Move the stars for a truck full of picks and prospects.

Edmonton and Toronto are young and they have their cores, both teams made their bed you don't split that up to be mediocre you build around it and fix it at this point in their careers. These young guys need to take a page from MacKinnon if they haven't already and get a sports psychologist, if they haven't done diet research yet that as well.

To the bolded - I actually hesitated to include Washington here because they're different than the other 3. They cannot trade either player for a huge return in my opinion.

Backstrom - great player/career - but he's the worst player of the bunch considering ability/age (and even without age - I'd say all others have/will surpass him for peak). I'm sure he'd get a trade return of sorts - but he easily has the lowest trade value of all.
Ovechkin - he's UFA. So you can't trade him. (I know in theory they could sign & trade - but that would never happen).

So if Washington decides to blow it up - they probably can't get a big return for either Ovi (who would just walk as UFA) or Backstrom (who isn't worth that much).

Malkin still gets a really big haul - Crosby, huge one. And of course the younger guys of Edmonton/Toronto would get a big haul too.

 

[DickSmehlik]

Both Pittsburgh and Washington are done as contenders.

Sure, they still have some nice regular seasons in them but their respective COREs are too old to be leading them to Cups, no matter how much roster tweaking they do.

Edmonton needs depth desperately but it will take them a while to get that.

Toronto is probably in the best shape of all 4 of them, despite their early playoff woes. Trading Marner for a couple of key pieces could solve a lot of their problems IMO.

 

[dr robbie]

Paging MJ - Please come educate us on the inaccuracies of this thread.

I'll get you started: Crosby was never a playoff performer... Ovechkin is the blessed hockey player that was foretold by the profits of old... Assists aren't real...

 

[34]

Edmonton and Toronto. Both teams are seriously flawed!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If you have a generational player, you don't trade them. You should be going for the Cup every year with a generational player.

Toronto should try to shake up their core before their contention window closes.

 

[KlefDown]

IMO it's Edmonton.

All the other teams at least has some depth. Edmonton doesn't. They need it.
McDrai is the best player in the World, and a top player in the World together, but they can't half an hour each.

lmao Oilers trade McDrai when they have 30m+ in cap space just so they can acquire depth which we can get through UFA, trading picks and prospects and with other rookies coming up? depth is not hard to acquire, the best players in the world are. same goes for Toronto.


Pens/Caps have an aging core. The answer is clearly one of them

 

[Hockeyholic]

Pittsburgh and Washington now have old underachieving stars. They need a tear down.

Toronto at least have young players. They just need to trade Marner for gritt.

Edmonton needs more depth. Once it’s added, they are a cup contender.

 

[Bouboumaster]

lmao Oilers trade McDrai when they have 30m+ in cap space just so they can acquire depth which we can get through UFA, trading picks and prospects and with other rookies coming up? depth is not hard to acquire, the best players in the world are. same goes for Toronto.


Pens/Caps have an aging core. The answer is clearly one of them

Hope it will be as easy as you think it is because as of now, your team is sucking ass lol

 

[KlefDown]

Hope it will be as easy as you think it is because as of now, your team is sucking ass lol

yeah I'm sure we can find them without sacrificing the most valuable assets in hockey today thanks

 

[Machinehead]

I voted that everyone stays in tact for now.

If anyone should, it's Washington, but certain players you just don't get rid of. It is what it is.

 

[jetsforever]

All should keep their players

 

[Lebowski]

IMO it's Edmonton.

All the other teams at least has some depth. Edmonton doesn't. They need it.
McDrai is the best player in the World, and a top player in the World together, but they can't half an hour each.

The Pens won 3 cups with the same 1-2 punch structure. Moving Drai for depth sounds insane to me.

Of those teams, I think only Toronto should consider trading Marner specifically.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Neither the Penguins nor Capitals are winning a cup anytime soon and tearing down their teams won't get them any closer to winning a cup. I get this website fetishizes futures, but it's more likely than not that both of those teams would end up getting pennies on the dollar in the long term by trading their stars. When was the last time a team traded a star player but won the deal in the long run? It's super rare. Both are better off riding into the sunset with their current cores and hoping they can catch lightning in a bottle in one of their remaining years.

The Oilers also shouldn't trade either McDavid or Draisaitl, but I'd look to trade Marner for the Leafs. I think Marner is terrific, but they're way too top heavy as currently constructed. For what they're paying Matthews and Tavares, they can't also be spending $10+ million on a winger. You need Tavares and Matthews to be able to make great lines with lesser talent for what you're paying them.

 

[KidLine93]

IMO it's Edmonton.

All the other teams at least has some depth. Edmonton doesn't. They need it.
McDrai is the best player in the World, and a top player in the World together, but they can't half an hour each.

Post the McDavid and Draisaitl trade you would make that turns edmonton into a contender.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Hope it will be as easy as you think it is because as of now, your team is sucking ass lol

Sucking ass with the best regular season record among Canadian teams and a top records among the "classic" Western teams in the past 2 seasons? Yeah the team has struggled in the playoffs because lack of depth scoring but I didn't realize that means they are "sucking ass"?

Bit of hyperbole there I reckon. Connor and Drai combined salary is extremely reasonable and by no means will handicap this team's ability to put some better players around them now assuming that Holland isn't even half as dumb as Chia it shouldn't be rocket science.

The answer for me was Malkin needs to go and Washington can probably try one more year but they'd obviously get more if they pulled the trigger now. Ovi is the face of the franchise so I think that leaves Backstrom as the odd man out even though he played better this year. Maybe McMichael is ready to jump into a top 6 centre role?

 

[Bouboumaster]

The Pens won 3 cups with the same 1-2 punch structure. Moving Drai for depth sounds insane to me.

Of those teams, I think only Toronto should consider trading Marner specifically.

Pens had Letang, good wigners and good goaltending too at the time

 

[Bouboumaster]

Post the McDavid and Draisaitl trade you would make that turns edmonton into a contender.

You would not like it lol

It would not turn Edmonton into a contender, but you'd have a more balanced team/more competitive team overall.

Obviously McDavid can't go anywhere, he's the most untouchable player in the league, so it would be Draisatl.

Draisatl comes cheap for what he brings, on, in a flat cap World, I'm pretty sure you could get a king ransom for him.

You'd loose the best player in the deal, but you'd be better.

Seth Jones ++ is something I'd look for, or something in that range. Nurse is a good d-man, but you're in trouble if he's your best d-man...

With Jones, you get a top 5 d-man in the league. It's just a matter of what you'd get on top of him

 

[KidLine93]

You would not like it lol

It would not turn Edmonton into a contender, but you'd have a more balanced team/more competitive team overall.

Obviously McDavid can't go anywhere, he's the most untouchable player in the league, so it would be Draisatl.

Draisatl comes cheap for what he brings, on, in a flat cap World, I'm pretty sure you could get a king ransom for him.

You'd loose the best player in the deal, but you'd be better.

Seth Jones ++ is something I'd look for, or something in that range. Nurse is a good d-man, but you're in trouble if he's your best d-man...

With Jones, you get a top 5 d-man in the league. It's just a matter of what you'd get on top of him

You want us to trade draisaitl for a guy testing UFA this summer to get paid? did you do any research before posting this? Drai has one of the best contracts in the league, to bring back similar value for that cap space is what I want you to explain. And you post a defenseman who is about to make around 8M+ ?

 

[Bouboumaster]

You want us to trade draisaitl for a guy testing UFA this summer to get paid? did you do any research before posting this? Drai has one of the best contracts in the league, to bring back similar value for that cap space is what I want you to explain. And you post a defenseman who is about to make around 8M+ ?

It would obviously be a sign-&-trade type of deal, or it would not be Jones at all and someone else.

I named the first high end d-man that popped in mind because guess what? That's one of the first thing you'd need to take care of.

You won't get similar value to the cap, it won't happen, because you'd get good playerS (with a S)
Could also attach some of your more useless players to Drai to offset the loss of an asset like Drai. Like Chiasson or Neal.

 

[KidLine93]

It would obviously be a sign-&-trade type of deal, or it would not be Jones at all and someone else.

I named the first high end d-man that popped in mind because guess what? That's one of the first thing you'd need to take care of.

You won't get similar value to the cap, it won't happen, because you'd get good playerS (with a S)
Could also attach some of your more useless players to Drai to offset the loss of an asset like Drai. Like Chiasson or Neal.

I think its more feasible for the oilers to Keep McDavid and Drai at those cap hits and let holland decide how he wants to spend all of this cap that is coming off the books this year and next year. Bouchard/Holloway/Broberg/McLeod will be filling out bottom parts of the roster for cheaper than chiasson/Turris/Russell over the next 2 years. Russell's cap is dropping from 4M to 1.5 as well even if we did have to play him. 2.3M of Chiarelli buyouts comes off the cap this year as well. Koskinen has 1 year left at 4.5M. Larsson most likely isn't getting a pay raise. RNH/Barrie are the big cap decision Holland has to make keeping Nurse's next contract in mind.

With all of that extra money and McDavid/Drai signed thru 2025 why would you offload affordable top talent? Its seems easier to add in a winger and defensman to support McDavid/Drai and if need be give up a 1st or 2nd rounder if you really want to compete and go for a certain player. Neals contract is buyout friendly if you again need some extra room to add a guy for a run.

 

[Paul4587]

Umm definitely not the two teams whose core players are 23-25... of the options the Pens probably need to realize their window is done and shake things up the most

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

To the bolded - I actually hesitated to include Washington here because they're different than the other 3. They cannot trade either player for a huge return in my opinion.

Backstrom - great player/career - but he's the worst player of the bunch considering ability/age (and even without age - I'd say all others have/will surpass him for peak). I'm sure he'd get a trade return of sorts - but he easily has the lowest trade value of all.
Ovechkin - he's UFA. So you can't trade him. (I know in theory they could sign & trade - but that would never happen).

So if Washington decides to blow it up - they probably can't get a big return for either Ovi (who would just walk as UFA) or Backstrom (who isn't worth that much).

Malkin still gets a really big haul - Crosby, huge one. And of course the younger guys of Edmonton/Toronto would get a big haul too.

Malkin has 1 year left on his contract and is basically a guarantee to miss at least 20 games a season. He's not getting a big haul.