Top 25 players since Gary Bettman was named commissioner

[Starchild74]

As far as I know this was top 25 players not statistical leaders and I'll say that Yzermans Smythe and leadership beats out any guy with one or two ASTs in their belt.

I think that for this list it is a combination of how great a player is and how he produced. The original Poster wanted to have a list that was not your common top 25 where it is Gretzky and Lemieux etc....

This is a tough list to do because you have to pretend that some of these players didn't play before 1992-93.

Now honestly if we are just going to pick the best players because of who they are then it would be the same list we always have. Would I pick Recchi over Lemieux, Yzerman, Bourque etc.... Of course not but those guys didn't play much in this time or were not at their elite level for much of this timeframe

I am not here to bash Yzerman but except for the 1992-93 season he did not produce as well as others.

Just so you understand what I mean

What years in the Regular season would you take Yzerman over Recchi as to how they performed

1993, 1996,1997,1999 that would be it for me

1994,1995,1998,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010 Recchi out performed Yzerman

Now as for the playoffs 93-99, and 02 Yzerman out performed Recchi in the playoffs

The only years Recchi did better were 00,01,03-10.

So regular season Yzerman 4 Recchi 14

Playoffs Yzerman 8 Recchi 10

Now of course Recchi played some years when Yzerman didn't. That is essence is a problem with making a list like this. It is not about careers it is from 1993 on.

We are pretending that everything else before 1993 didn't exist. If you take away Yzerman's earlier seasons and just look at it from 1993 on he wouldn't be considered as great as he is. As a matte of fact if you go from 1993 on it would be tough to put Yzerman in the HHOF from that year on. Just like it would be hard to put others like Lemieux etc... in based on this criteria

No one's list will be perfect because how do you get out of your mind what players like Lemieux, Gretzky, Bourque etc.. did before 1993 especially if you saw them play before that.

 

[kmad]

Right this coming from a guy who when talking about the years of 1993 to 2010 puts Lemieux number 1 and if you take away your goalies Yzerman would be the 5th best forward in that span. Really Yzerman number 5. Better in this time period then Federov and Forsberg. Really?

Don't turn this into a pissing match. You're taking criticisms of your list far too personally.

Recchi does not belong anywhere near 6th. I almost left him off of my list entirely.

 

[Hardyvan123]

He also has 3 scoring titles, 4 seasons leading the NHL in ppg, and a 5th where he was 2nd in ppg. He has a season with 69 goals in 60 games and another with 69 goals in 70 games. Two 160 point seasons, one of which was in 60 games and could be the best offensive season in History including all of Mario and Gretzky's seasons. 3 50 goal seasons.

I have 398 games for Mario not 338. 282 goals in 398 games.

I would have Hasek 1st and Mario 2nd since 92/93. Jagr 3rd and Lidstrom 4th.

I started with 93-94 as Bettman took over in Feb of 93. I guess it would have helped if OP had specified which season to start with but looking back i think he would like 92-93 as it helps Selanne.

It sure helps Lemiuex but there is no way he is in the top 5 over the entire span and his lack of games is the only reason why.

Mario goes from 100th to 56th with that extra leading the league in scoring during that time period. He still remains behind a large group of forwards that include Jagr, Federov, Sakic, Sundin, Selanne, Modano and several others as well.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Don't turn this into a pissing match. You're taking criticisms of your list far too personally.

Recchi does not belong anywhere near 6th. I almost left him off of my list entirely.

You almost left the 5th best scorer off the list?

He also has one SC and was 140-46-53-99 in the playoffs in this stretch as well.

I'm thinking that you are allowing accomplishments of certain players before the time frame listed affect your list as are some others.

Just saying.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

1. Lidstrom
2. Jagr
3. Lemieux
4. Sakic
5. Forsberg
6. Pronger
7. Bourque
8. Crosby
9. Ovechkin
10. Chelios
11. Fedorov
12. Lindros
13. Selanne
14. Thornton
15. Iginla
16. Niedermayer
17. Sundin
18. Blake
19. Recchi
20. Modano
21. Chara
22. Shanahan
23. Alfredsson
24. Bure
25. Stevens

Nice list. Here are a few notes...

I think Sakic needs to be above Lemieux. In the regular season it's Lemieux's short peak vs. Sakic's longevity. Lemieux has the 2 best seasons, Sakic has the 3rd with his Hart year, Lemieux has the 4th. After that Sakic has 5 seasons where he is Top 5 in scoring and 2 more where he is Top 10 (2 1st Team All Stars). All Lemieux has is his comeback year in 2001 (2nd Team All Star), which is admittedly better than most of Sakic's. At this point they are close, but when you factor in the playoffs, it puts Sakic over the top.

Modano over Sundin. This one is close. Similar offensive production, but Modano was better defensively and has the better playoff resume. Meanwhile, Sundin had better longevity. It probably depends on what you put more emphasis on, but I think they should at least be right next to each other.

Someone else said it before...Stevens should be higher. Leading his team to 4 Finals and 3 Cups. I'd put him in the mid to late teens.

I'm fine with where he is, but it would seem that putting a guy like Bure over Shanahan and Alfredsson goes along better with the rest of your list which puts a heavier value on peak performance compared to longevity. Although this may be a different case because those two have great defense/intangibles and Bure basically has nothing outside of his offense.

 

[ContrarianGoaltender]

You almost left the 5th best scorer off the list?

He also has one SC and was 140-46-53-99 in the playoffs in this stretch as well.

I'm thinking that you are allowing accomplishments of certain players before the time frame listed affect your list as are some others.

Just saying.

Mark Recchi:
Regular season: 1335 games, 449 goals, 763 assists, 1212 points, 0.91 PPG
Playoffs: 140 games, 46 goals, 53 assists, 99 points, 0.71 PPG

Brendan Shanahan:
Regular season: 1163 games, 535 goals, 536 assists, 1071 points, 0.92 PPG
Playoffs: 153 games, 50 goals, 62 assists, 112 points, 0.73 PPG

Nobody is ranking Shanahan particularly highly. Nobody put him higher than 20th, and Starchild74 left Shanny off his list entirely, which is completely inconsistent with ranking Recchi 6th.

You can't just say Recchi deserves to be up there because he is 5th in scoring, and then ignore the fact that Shanahan is 7th with two more Cups and more playoff points, plus a higher PPG rate in both the regular season and playoffs. That's inconsistent logic.

If you like longevity and compiled numbers more than others here then that's fine, but then you better have a few other top-10 scorers in this period on your list up near Recchi, guys like Shanahan or Keith Tkachuk (8th in scoring) or Daniel Alfredsson (10th) or Doug Weight (11th). If not, then you're just cherrypicking numbers to support your favourites.

I think most people would agree those latter players don't deserve to be on the list, which makes it a pretty poor argument for Recchi. I don't think he'd make my top 25.

 

[jepjepjoo]

The only years Recchi did better were 00,01,03-10.

Playoffs Yzerman 8 Recchi 10

You just counted some years Recchi didn't even make it to the playoffs(05 obviosly and 08)

Recchi should be about 25th-30th and Yzerman 20th-25th.

 

[Starchild74]

Mark Recchi:
Regular season: 1335 games, 449 goals, 763 assists, 1212 points, 0.91 PPG
Playoffs: 140 games, 46 goals, 53 assists, 99 points, 0.71 PPG

Brendan Shanahan:
Regular season: 1163 games, 535 goals, 536 assists, 1071 points, 0.92 PPG
Playoffs: 153 games, 50 goals, 62 assists, 112 points, 0.73 PPG

Nobody is ranking Shanahan particularly highly. Nobody put him higher than 20th, and Starchild74 left Shanny off his list entirely, which is completely inconsistent with ranking Recchi 6th.

You can't just say Recchi deserves to be up there because he is 5th in scoring, and then ignore the fact that Shanahan is 7th with two more Cups and more playoff points, plus a higher PPG rate in both the regular season and playoffs. That's inconsistent logic.

If you like longevity and compiled numbers more than others here then that's fine, but then you better have a few other top-10 scorers in this period on your list up near Recchi, guys like Shanahan or Keith Tkachuk (8th in scoring) or Daniel Alfredsson (10th) or Doug Weight (11th). If not, then you're just cherrypicking numbers to support your favourites.

I think most people would agree those latter players don't deserve to be on the list, which makes it a pretty poor argument for Recchi. I don't think he'd make my top 25.

Not cherry picking stats. Recchi was better offensively then Shanahan. Was part of the Crazy 8 line in Philadelphia. Was a leader with Montreal and their top winger and to a degree at times their best player. Now he was not as good defensively. as Shanahan nor a better hitter. Also Shanahan was a better leader. It is just that Recchi was more of a threat offensively.

Doug Weight is one of my favourite players and was good at a certain point in this era but no way does Doug Weight belong in this list. Hell If it was 1996-2000 I would still have a hard time putting him on th ebest 25 only because their are some that are better or at least had better stats in the regular season and definately playoffs

Longevity was not my only reason for putting guys on this list. I was only using Recchi vs Yzerman as an example. Now you make a good argument for Shanahan no question but in the end I stick by my list. The only selection that I would understand anyone complaining about is Pavel Bure because he didn't play that much but he just so dominant that I had to put him in.

And if I was cherry picking stats to make my favourite players on the list or get them higher. I would have definately made sure to put Sundin down further as I hated him. Just because you don't agree which is your right. Do not make assupmtions that I am putting players higher or lower because I like them more. Or they are my favourite player

 

[Starchild74]

You just counted some years Recchi didn't even make it to the playoffs(05 obviosly and 08)

Recchi should be about 25th-30th and Yzerman 20th-25th.

You are right I was being lazy forgot to exclude a few years. If memory serves me right their was even a year where recchi didn't register a point in 4 games I think too. Don't have time to go and check right now. I was trying to make the point that those years Yzerman didn't play. So it is Yzerman 8 and Recchi 8 but even if my original was right was not saying that Recchi was better the Yzerman in the playoffs

 

[kmad]

You almost left the 5th best scorer off the list?

Recchi is a compiler.

 

[seventieslord]

Recchi is a compiler.

A compiler is someone who just piles up regular season totals while generally providing little else, and rarely being near the top of the heap, i.e. Mike Gartner, Dave Andreychuk, Dino Ciccarelli.

Recchi has more seasons as a top-5 and top-20 scorer than almost any post-expansion wingers. Only the most obvious all-time greats exceed him in this regard. How is it fair to call Recchi a compiler?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Just curious. But what's with the omission of Gretzky in so many lists?

 

[kmad]

A compiler is someone who just piles up regular season totals while generally providing little else, and rarely being near the top of the heap, i.e. Mike Gartner, Dave Andreychuk, Dino Ciccarelli.

Recchi has more seasons as a top-5 and top-20 scorer than almost any post-expansion wingers. Only the most obvious all-time greats exceed him in this regard. How is it fair to call Recchi a compiler?

I guess it would be better to say... he didn't bring much outside of scoring. Measuring him against his contemporaries by point totals is disingenuous. I value Yzerman's complete game and playoff heroism far more than Recchi's point accumulation.

 

[kmad]

Just curious. But what's with the omission of Gretzky in so many lists?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2035

Consider only the 92/93 season and onwards. He has 1 good playoff run, 1 Art Ross, and only 3 other seasons over 80 points, missing the playoffs entirely five times.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Mark Recchi:
Regular season: 1335 games, 449 goals, 763 assists, 1212 points, 0.91 PPG
Playoffs: 140 games, 46 goals, 53 assists, 99 points, 0.71 PPG

Brendan Shanahan:
Regular season: 1163 games, 535 goals, 536 assists, 1071 points, 0.92 PPG
Playoffs: 153 games, 50 goals, 62 assists, 112 points, 0.73 PPG

Nobody is ranking Shanahan particularly highly. Nobody put him higher than 20th, and Starchild74 left Shanny off his list entirely, which is completely inconsistent with ranking Recchi 6th.

You can't just say Recchi deserves to be up there because he is 5th in scoring, and then ignore the fact that Shanahan is 7th with two more Cups and more playoff points, plus a higher PPG rate in both the regular season and playoffs. That's inconsistent logic.

If you like longevity and compiled numbers more than others here then that's fine, but then you better have a few other top-10 scorers in this period on your list up near Recchi, guys like Shanahan or Keith Tkachuk (8th in scoring) or Daniel Alfredsson (10th) or Doug Weight (11th). If not, then you're just cherrypicking numbers to support your favourites.

I think most people would agree those latter players don't deserve to be on the list, which makes it a pretty poor argument for Recchi. I don't think he'd make my top 25.

I haven't' made my definitive list but all of those guys mentioned get on my top 25 except Weight.

Shanny and Recchi and probably Alfredsson are ahead of Lemieux while Tkachuk might be behind at 1st glance.

 

[JackSlater]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2035

Consider only the 92/93 season and onwards. He has 1 good playoff run, 1 Art Ross, and only 3 other seasons over 80 points, missing the playoffs entirely five times.

This understates how good post 1993 Gretzky still was. His good playoff run was better than the best playoff runs of almost every other player post 1993. Two of his seasons over eighty points included a second and a third place points finish. I also think there is a difference between most valuable players since 1993 and best players since 1993. Gretzky isn't among the most valuable players over that period, but he is certainly among the best.

 

[kmad]

This understates how good post 1993 Gretzky still was. His good playoff run was better than the best playoff runs of almost every other player post 1993. Two of his seasons over eighty points included a second and a third place points finish. I also think there is a difference between most valuable players since 1993 and best players since 1993. Gretzky isn't among the most valuable players over that period, but he is certainly among the best.

Well "most valuable" would be a simple extrapolation of "best" over the selected time frame. Of course Gretzky's the best, since he's the best to ever play the game. But for the purposes of this list we can't judge in that fashion, or we'd have Bryan Trottier and Larry Robinson in the top ten.