Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time - Preliminary Discussion Thread

[Batis]

My apologies.

• 1973, 1975, 1977, 1979 – World Championships All-Star
• 1973, 1975, 1977, 1979 – World Championships leading scorer
• 1972, 1973 – Soviet League Player of the Year
• 1973, 1975, 1977, 1979 – Soviet League All-Star
• 1970, 1973, 1975, 1978, 1979 – Soviet League leading scorer
• Order For Merit to the Fatherland 4th class
• Order of Friendship
• 2 Orders of the Badge of Honour
• 2 Medals "For Labour Valour"

This is straight from world renowned hockey information source Wikipedia.

Is "Soviet League Player of the Year" different?

Again, my apologies and thank you for the correction.

Interesting. According to hockeyarchives scoring list it was Shalimov who led the 1975 WHC 1 point ahead of Petrov.
Championnats du monde 1975 de hockey sur glace

 

[Theokritos]

Is "Soviet League Player of the Year" different?

I'm unaware of any "Soviet League Player of the Year" award. All I know is the "Best Player of the Season" award that wasn't restricted to league play. Petrov never won it. The best rankings that he reached: 2nd (1973), 2nd (1977), 4th (1975), 5th (1981).

 

[Batis]

Here is a breakdown of the remaining defencemen with the strongest WHC All-Star voting records.

Valeri Vasiliev: 1st (1975), Tied for 1st (1981), 2nd (1974), Top 2 (1977), Top 2 (1979), Top 4 (1978)
Even if both Suchy and Kasatonov have very strong voting records I would probably say that Vasiliev has the second strongest WHC All-Star voting record among defencemen (behind Fetisov). Considering that Vasiliev was voted the top defenceman by the directorate in both 1977 and 1979 (tied with Bubla) it seems likely that he did very well in the All-Star voting at those tournaments as well. It is perhaps also worth noting that Vasiliev in 1981 was tied for 1st place in the All-Star voting with Larry Robinson and with both Fetisov and Kasatonov playing at that tournament as well I think that it is fair to say that the competition at the position was very strong. Considering that Vasiliev was voted the top defenceman of the 1973 WHC by the directorate it seems likely that he recieved some voting support from the media that tournament as well even when we know that he did not make the First All-Star Team.

Jan Suchy: 1st (1968), 1st (1969), 1st (1970), 1st (1971), Tied for 9th (1974)
Suchys 1968-1971 stretch with four straight times leading the All-Star voting among defencemen is very impressive and something that only Fetisov managed to equal between 1985 and 1989. The problem with Suchy is of course that he outside of his incredible peak did not achieve very much of value although he did get some fringe support in 1974 as well. If one values peak performance highly I think that a case could be made for Suchy having an even more impressive voting record than Vasiliev though.

Alexei Kasatonov: 2nd (1982), 2nd (1985), 2nd (1986), Top 2 (1983), Top 2 (1991), 4th (1987)
While Kasatonov played in Fetisovs shadow during his prime his voting record is still very impressive. Being a 5-time First Team All-Star and a 1-time Second Team All-Star is a testiment to his great consistency and elite longevity on the international stage. With that said I think that it is harder to argue for Kasatonov being ahead of Vasiliev when it comes to WHC All-Star voting records than doing the same for Suchy considering that Vasiliev had similar consistency and elite longevity while clearly peaking higher than Kasatonov.

Frantisek Pospisil: 1st (1976), 2nd (1972), Top 2 (1977)
Even if Pospisil did finish top 2 in the voting three times it is very clear that Pospisils WHC All-Star voting record does not quite measure up to the voting records of Vasiliev, Suchy and Kasatonov.

And for reference sake here is Fetisovs voting record.

Vyacheslav Fetisov: 1st (1978), 1st (1982), 1st (1985), 1st (1986), Tied for 1st (1987), 1st (1989), 2nd (1990), Top 2 (1983), Top 2 (1991)

 

[DN28]

My question isn't specifically asked at you, but...
When was the underlined not the case (or perceived to be the case)? Here anyways.

There was a lively Alexandrov - Starshinov debate going on in the Top-50 non-NHL Euros project 5 years ago...

Starshinov "won", and his stock has been rising ever since.

 

[ted2019]

Wondering if Gordie Roberts or Goldie Prodger has a shot of making maybe the back end of anybody's list ?

 

[MXD]

Wondering if Gordie Roberts or Goldie Prodger has a shot of making maybe the back end of anybody's list ?

Maybe if it was the Top 400 players

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Wondering if Gordie Roberts or Goldie Prodger has a shot of making maybe the back end of anybody's list ?

Gordie Roberts?

Based on what?

Speaking of Gordie, got to see him play against the Soviets in Hartford way back in 1976. He really stepped up.

Superseries 1976-77: New England Whalers vs USSR - Bing video

 

[MXD]

Gordie Roberts?

Based on what?

Speaking of Gordie, got to see him play against the Soviets in Hartford way back in 1976. He really stepped up.

Superseries 1976-77: New England Whalers vs USSR - Bing video

He's talking about the other Gord Roberts, the one who was Randy Gregg before Randy Gregg.

Roberts, Gordie -- Biography -- Honoured Player -- Legends of Hockey

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He's talking about the other Gord Roberts, the one who was Randy Gregg before Randy Gregg.

Roberts, Gordie -- Biography -- Honoured Player -- Legends of Hockey

Thanks!

I never saw that Gordie Roberts play.

 

[ted2019]

He's talking about the other Gord Roberts, the one who was Randy Gregg before Randy Gregg.

Roberts, Gordie -- Biography -- Honoured Player -- Legends of Hockey

Correct.

 

[ted2019]

Is anyone here done their lists?

 

[buffalowing88]

Is anyone here done their lists?

I've been procrastinating making some final changes but I have my selections pretty much set. Just trying to ensure that I'm confident in the order. That's daunting as hell but I'm starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Professor What]

Is anyone here done their lists?

Mostly. I suspect there's going to be a few tweaks, but it's nearly done. I can't say I'm totally happy with it, but I suspect I never will be. I've just got to get to the point that I'm as satisfied as possible.

 

[buffalowing88]

I personally am embarrassed that my list is going to be picked apart. Deep down, though, I'm sort of looking forward to it. I think there's an incredibly receptive and considerate team on this project, though, that we should all feel supported putting these lists out there. The 2009 Top 100 got real toxic and I'm just happy the majority of them aren't involved.

 

[Professor What]

I personally am embarrassed that my list is going to be picked apart. Deep down, though, I'm sort of looking forward to it. I think there's an incredibly receptive and considerate team on this project, though, that we should all feel supported putting these lists out there. The 2009 Top 100 got real toxic and I'm just happy the majority of them aren't involved.

I think that's part of my lack of satisfaction with my own list, but then I tell myself that there's going to be so much variation between lists that I shouldn't worry about it so much, and I'm interested to see what the thought processes that lead top different views on different players are.

 

[DitchMarner]

I'm assuming most lists include Paul Kariya?

How many people listed either Sedin?


Did anyone not include Iginla and/or Bure?

 

[MXD]

I'm assuming most lists include Paul Kariya?

How many people listed either Sedin?


Did anyone not include Iginla and/or Bure?

I Guess Kariya Will make my list.
I can see an argument for keeping Pavel Bure out of the preliminary list. I just cant see such an argument for Iginla.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I'm assuming most lists include Paul Kariya?

How many people listed either Sedin?


Did anyone not include Iginla and/or Bure?

Correct.

Can't have one without the other.

That would be very wrong.

 

[Professor What]

I'm assuming most lists include Paul Kariya?

How many people listed either Sedin?


Did anyone not include Iginla and/or Bure?

Kariya is in for me. Henrik is just barely on my list at the moment. Maybe he ends up making the cut, maybe he doesn't. Iginla and Bure are both in very, very, very easily for me.

 

[buffalowing88]

Kariya is in for me. Henrik is just barely on my list at the moment. Maybe he ends up making the cut, maybe he doesn't. Iginla and Bure are both in very, very, very easily for me.

I didn't even assume that there would be an argument against Bure/Iginla. I really like Bure, in particular. He has his flaws, and they are pretty profound, but I'm honestly swayed by his impact in Florida. He got plenty of minutes and cherry-picked, but to score like he was in that era means a lot to me.

Iginla has to get in as well. But he's in the Martin St.Louis camp for me. I watched both of those guys nonstop as a teenager and I have to say that they just don't leave me satisfied. But Iginla will get in, and I know St.Louis is already a prodigal son of this forum. I just throw him, Lecavalier, Richards, Iginla, Marleau into a certain era of crappy hockey around the lockout.

 

[buffalowing88]

I'm assuming most lists include Paul Kariya?

How many people listed either Sedin?


Did anyone not include Iginla and/or Bure?

Kariya makes it for me. I went back and watched a lot of his highlights with Anaheim and what stood out was his constant presence and he did this with a second-tier center in Rucchin. Everything he did afterwards is just gravy.

 

[VanIslander]

Aren't we just ranking 101st to 220th (given last year's top 100 HOH project)?

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

People who did NOT participate in the previous H-o-H Top-100 project have two options.

People who DID participate in the previous H-o-H Top-100 project have three options.

Those options appear to have been made satisfactorily clear in the opening post. Forgive me if I sound testy- but this is the second time I've encountered a project-question that could be answered passably by a proper reading of the opening post.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Did anyone not include Iginla and/or Bure?

IF I participate in the project, AND Iginla is one of the opening nominees, he will be my choice for Valedictorian.

He was also the Bubble-Boy (runner-up to Abel in the concluding ballot) for the H-o-H Top-100 mass-vote for the final placing. The more we discussed him, the higher he rose.

 

[Professor What]

I didn't even assume that there would be an argument against Bure/Iginla. I really like Bure, in particular. He has his flaws, and they are pretty profound, but I'm honestly swayed by his impact in Florida. He got plenty of minutes and cherry-picked, but to score like he was in that era means a lot to me.

Iginla has to get in as well. But he's in the Martin St.Louis camp for me. I watched both of those guys nonstop as a teenager and I have to say that they just don't leave me satisfied. But Iginla will get in, and I know St.Louis is already a prodigal son of this forum. I just throw him, Lecavalier, Richards, Iginla, Marleau into a certain era of crappy hockey around the lockout.

Bure, Iginla, and St. Louis are in the same neighborhood on my list. Bure might be the single player coming up early that I'm looking forward to the most. We had a discussion about him not long ago, and I'm interested in how it develops with an actual ranking in mind. On the surface, he's a one-dimensional player that's so good at that one dimension that he v can't be ignored, but a deeper dig reveals more to his game. He's always going to be viewed as a scorer first, second, and third, and rightly so, but despite the fact that his game did have deficiencies, they're not necessarily as many and as great as some try to claim when trying to knock him down a peg, which I'm sure you've seen done.