Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Voting Results (Part 1)

[ChiTownPhilly]

Well, only Mario ended up where I had him. Everybody else are in different spaces in my list.

I computed my "displacement value" on the list. The total is 12. Five players displaced by one slot, two by two slots, and one by three slots. [So that eliminates me as a suspect for the "Gretzky=7" vote.]

And on that topic, if that was a strategic vote, it may have been the most pointless, in vain, spitting-into-the-wind strategic vote attempt. Ever. I prefer to think it must have been a (somehow) sincerely-held view.

 

[VanIslander]

We live in a world of absurdities.

What is one more: "'Gretzky is the 7th best player of all time' is a reasonable position.'"

The world is going mad...

 

[The Macho King]

BTW - ready for the second discussion! No more meetings.

 

[bobholly39]

My thoughts on the results:

I'm happy to see Gretzky win by such a large margin - though almost surprised. There was a lot of talk about Orr or Howe above Gretzky in round 1 - I guess it wasn't representative of the majority though.

I'm ecstatic about Howe at #2 if I can be honest. Even though I had him 4th myself - I like the idea of having him either ahead of both Orr/Lemieux, or behind both. I feel longevity/consistency is his main calling card vs those 2 - and if it's enough to beat 1, it's enough to beat the other.

Not surprised to see Mario at 4th though I would have liked to see him higher.

Beliveau and Hull are probably going to be hard to dislodge from the next vote. They may not be top 2, but based on voting here i'd be shocked if they both didn't slot somewhere in the 5-9 slot. Don't think i will say that about anyone else.

Surprised to see Roy so low. I mean - yes and no. Surprised because I think he can and does have a case for a higher placement - but also, the fact that he's the only goalie here (when I think there could be up to 3 worthy of top 10) shows that voters may have somewhat of an anti-goalie bias. This should lead to some interesting talk in the next rounds.

 

[MXD]

BTW - ready for the second discussion! No more meetings.

... The lack of a second discussion at this point is pure Cooley stuff.

 

[bobholly39]

Yeah I wish more people who voted participated in the discussion. I don't think we got a deep discussion of Howe v. Orr for #2, for instance (just kind of hand-waiving "longevity" and "peak", when a deep dive would have been much more interesting). I think 80% of our discussion was on Mario and he was clearly #4, so that kind of feels like wasted ink.

It's funny you're the second poster to say that today and i didn't get that impression at all. I know in the 2nd thread there was a lot of talk about Mario in the last 24 hours - but most had already voted by then. I thought the majority of the discussion during the week was a lot about Gretzky vs Orr, more than Mario.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Yeah I wish more people who voted participated in the discussion. I don't think we got a deep discussion of Howe v. Orr for #2, for instance (just kind of hand-waiving "longevity" and "peak", when a deep dive would have been much more interesting). I think 80% of our discussion was on Mario and he was clearly #4, so that kind of feels like wasted ink.

I actually thought participation was pretty good. I'm just guessing from memory here, but I think most eligible voters made contributions in the discussion.

Like C1958, I am a little curious about people who voted without participating in the discussion at all, and I believe there are a few. Not to say there's anything wrong with being a silent observer if you are sincerely following the discussion to inform your vote. But if a person shows a pattern of just voting in the same order as their initial list while also not participating at all in the discussion, I'd have to question to value of counting their ballot.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I'm ecstatic about Howe at #2 if I can be honest. Even though I had him 4th myself - I like the idea of having him either ahead of both Orr/Lemieux, or behind both. I feel longevity/consistency is his main calling card vs those 2 - and if it's enough to beat 1, it's enough to beat the other.

Ideally, I'd have loved to see Orr and Howe 1 and 2. However, I objectively had 1. Orr 2. Gretzky 3. Howe 4. Lemieux.

 

[Canadiens1958]

We live in a world of absurdities.

What is one more: "'Gretzky is the 7th best player of all time' is a reasonable position.'"

The world is going mad...

And none of the Top 10 from 1950 even made the Vote 1 discussion. Fluid game.

 

[ted2019]

Well I may as well be the one to post it.

Someone has Gretzky 7th. And it's not even an "anti-offense" voter since Lemieux's lowest score is 5.

I had Mario 5th.

 

[sr edler]

This is exactly how I thought it would be with exception of switching Howe/Orr.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

In defense of the Miltonians among us ["they also serve who only stand and wait..."]-

I can easily see a time when I get buttonholed by The Real World and will have to taper back my posting-rate here. I can definitely see where others with more responsibilities struggle to find enough time to read our stuff, let alone try to post here. If you're actively listening, we're grateful (or we should be). Probably a couple of the participants are in Moderation and Administration here- and they've got a bunch on their plate, too.

For those not in the HF Leadership Team who nonetheless have "stood and waited," maybe throw us a "like" every now-and-then, to let us know you're around. If I get to the point where I can't contribute so much, I'll try to do just that, myself.

 

[VanIslander]

And none of the Top 10 from 1950 even made the Vote 1 discussion. Fluid game.

Lol. So you are the Gretz 7th vote?

Beliveau as 14th then would be equally 'fluid' eh?

 

[sr edler]

though we did receive a ballot from a non-participant.

Did this non-participant happen to be... ageless?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Lol. So you are the Gretz 7th vote?

Beliveau as 14th then would be equally 'fluid' eh?

Eventually. Nothing is locked for eternity. Opinions change.

 

[bobholly39]

Did this non-participant happen to be... ageless?

That would be great if so. He was very actively engaged in the discussion and tried to defend his views - which I think is a good thing. I'd prefer he be the one voting than someone who didn't participate at all. (of course non-participant votes are being counted separately anyways).

 

[Sentinel]

And none of the Top 10 from 1950 even made the Vote 1 discussion. Fluid game.

What are you talking about? Howe and Richard played in 1950.

 

[dr robbie]

I feel like voting Gretzky 7th should come with an essay justifying that position. I can't personally think of any rational reasoning that would justify 6 of these other players placing higher than him.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I feel like voting Gretzky 7th should come with an essay justifying that position. I can't personally think of any rational reasoning that would justify 6 of these other players placing higher than him.

Despite not seeing any rationale for putting Gretzky so low, I too would be entranced by someone trying to make a case for such a placement.

 

[Captain Bowie]

That would be great if so. He was very actively engaged in the discussion and tried to defend his views - which I think is a good thing. I'd prefer he be the one voting than someone who didn't participate at all. (of course non-participant votes are being counted separately anyways).

Are non-participant votes being counted at all?

 

[bobholly39]

Are non-participant votes being counted at all?

Doesn't sound like we were planning to no. I know in the playoff project they did have open ballots and keep tabs - this wasn't really discussed much going into this as far as I know.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I apologize if I missed this somewhere, but when do we get the next list of candidates?

 

[Captain Bowie]

Doesn't sound like we were planning to no. I know in the playoff project they did have open ballots and keep tabs - this wasn't really discussed much going into this as far as I know.

This comment makes more sense now.

Yes. JoseTheodore2002 seems to be the missing ballot of the 32 participants - though we did receive a ballot from a non-participant. However doing Open Balloting might be tough with my schedule this year.

 

[ted2019]

IMO, open balloting shouldn't happen. Those who spent hours upon hours doing research should get the honor to vote, not someone who jumps in after all the hard work was done and just vote long enough to get their favorite players voted in and then vanish. That completely ruins the entire process.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Surprised only three people had Howe #1.Thought it would be 6-7 at least.

This wasn't as close as I expected.