Top 10 defensemen since 2005 #1

[Cap'n Flavour]

So well that the Leafs never made the playoffs 2005 onwards while he was with the team. And there was one season where his ATOI was significantly high, which was 2005/26 (28:10). You make it sound like he averaged those minutes every season, which he didn't. Most years it was nothing out of the ordinary for a top pairing defenceman. Fact is he was an offensive defenceman who was a PP specialist and average defensively.

2005-06: 16:06/G ES, 4:31/G SH, 7:32/G PP
2006-07: 16:28/G ES, 3:34/G SH, 5:49/G PP

Would love to see Dion play those kind of minutes regularly (not really actually). And yes, obviously the Leafs failing to qualify for the playoffs are Kaberle's fault. Why couldn't he play another 10 minutes per game?

He never shot, but when he did, he could actually find the net.

05-06: McCabe 207 SoG (73GP, 9.2 sh%), Kaberle 163 SoG (82 GP, 5.5 sh%).
06-07: McCabe 207 SoG (82 GP, 7.2 sh%), Kaberle 128 SoG (74 GP, 8.6 sh%).

He probably could have shot more, but McCabe obviously had the better one-timer. Kaberle's wristshot was well above average.

 

[IWD]

Don't know what's so funny here. Before the hit, he was the better defenceman. Kaberle's ability to skate, evade, skate the puck out of the zone/trouble and passing were all better than Phaneuf. He never shot, but when he did, he could actually find the net. His iq was higher too. Not sure what Phaneuf has over Kaberle other than hitting and maybe positioning?

Phaneuf might be "the man" right now, but it doesn't change the fact that his brain and feet are severely lacking, the two areas that need to be strong in today's game. The guy has every other tool to be elite, but his slowness and his lack of iq hamper his overall game.

I think they're both very different players, but I would take Kaberle at 26-27 over Phaneuf, but not by much. He had one of the best outlet passes, and was a very fluid skater. Phaneuf is more about raw strength and brute force when he moves. More of a shooter than a break-out passer, and should be used for one-timers on the right-side. It'll cut down his minutes a bit as well, and let him rest up more. He plays at a high level for most of the season, but he seems to burn out at the end. When he goes, the team falls.

As well, Kaberle had a long career here to judge him. Phaneuf is in his prime, and a number of older defensemen are playing to a high level these days. I'd like to judge him after another 5 years of being here. I think he's underappreciated, to be honest.

 

[ACC1224]

Kaberle had the luxury of playing with another top pairing defenseman.

It's close between the two but Phanuef is the better all around defenseman.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Don't know what's so funny here. Before the hit, he was the better defenceman. Kaberle's ability to skate, evade, skate the puck out of the zone/trouble and passing were all better than Phaneuf. He never shot, but when he did, he could actually find the net. His iq was higher too. Not sure what Phaneuf has over Kaberle other than hitting and maybe positioning?

Phaneuf might be "the man" right now, but it doesn't change the fact that his brain and feet are severely lacking, the two areas that need to be strong in today's game. The guy has every other tool to be elite, but his slowness and his lack of iq hamper his overall game.

Agreed.

 

[tmlfan98]

I don't understand. What's with all of the Phaneuf love in this thread, and then you go to another thread and people hate on him like he murdered someone? HFBoards sometimes

 

[ACC1224]

I don't understand. What's with all of the Phaneuf love in this thread, and then you go to another thread and people hate on him like he murdered someone? HFBoards sometimes

There are only a few who hate him. Their redundancy makes them seem like a mob.

 

[Mess]

Kaberle is the 2nd highest scoring Dman in Maple Leaf franchise history, not sure how the #1 spot isn't his.

 

[ACC1224]

Kaberle is the 2nd highest scoring Dman in Maple Leaf franchise history, not sure how the #1 spot isn't his.

I'd guess some prefer a more rounded Defenseman.

 

[MakeTheIronSing]

I'd guess some prefer a more rounded Defenseman.

Or they're just desperate to kiss a new pig with lipstick on. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Phaneuf at number 1 is a joke, just like his play last season.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Never understood why they dumped Kubina in light of what they got back in return. Head scratcher.

Cause Brian Burke was an absolute DORK. Thats why.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think they're both very different players, but I would take Kaberle at 26-27 over Phaneuf, but not by much. He had one of the best outlet passes, and was a very fluid skater. Phaneuf is more about raw strength and brute force when he moves. More of a shooter than a break-out passer, and should be used for one-timers on the right-side. It'll cut down his minutes a bit as well, and let him rest up more. He plays at a high level for most of the season, but he seems to burn out at the end. When he goes, the team falls.

As well, Kaberle had a long career here to judge him. Phaneuf is in his prime, and a number of older defensemen are playing to a high level these days. I'd like to judge him after another 5 years of being here. I think he's underappreciated, to be honest.

Yup. Bump this thread in 5 years IMO. Aldo agree that it's hard to compare players who are so different. Hard to compare Coffey to Stevens just as an example.

 

[ACC1224]

Never understood why they dumped Kubina in light of what they got back in return. Head scratcher.

I always assumed he had asked to be moved and Burke listened.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Francois is a great defender....just not for the Leafs

 

[TMLegend]

I'd guess some prefer a more rounded Defenseman.

Calling Phaneuf a well-rounded defensemen is like calling Alexander Ovechkin a two-way forward. Just no.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Another thing to consider, Phaneuf may potentially be the better all-around defender because of what he could be capable of in terms of the package (you know what I mean) he possesses. But when he doesn't play up to those capabilities, his play drops, thus his work as a player is weakened.

Kaberle may only seem like a small powerplay specialist, but that's the thing, he played above and beyond his perceived capabilities.

For example, Francois Beauchemin is a better defenceman than Carl Gunnarsson, but while Beauchemin was here, he did not play well. So in their time here, Gunnarsson was the better defenceman, even though Beauchemin is the better defenceman. Get it?

If you are asking who is the overall better player, maybe it is Phaneuf. But if you are asking, who played better during their time here, it was no doubt Kaberle (from the lockout to the hit). Phaneuf needs to play like he did at the end of the 2010 season, and do it for many years, to leave Kaberle in the dust.

 

[ACC1224]

Calling Phaneuf a well-rounded defensemen is like calling Alexander Ovechkin a two-way forward. Just no.

Ok, we'll keep an eye out in case someone does that.

 

[cookie]

I voted for Kaberle because his play tapered off only when a certain Devil lived up to his logo. I can understand why people would vote for McCabe because when he was good... he was really good.

 

[Phaneuffan3]

Kaberle from 2005 and on was not the same Kaberle pre-lockout. As far as impact on the game, and team, it's got to be Phaneuf

This is the correct answer. Although, I only agree that pre-lockout Kabs was better than post lockout. I can't belive how highly Kabs is regarded around here.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

This is the correct answer. Although, I only agree that pre-lockout Kabs was better than post lockout. I can't belive how highly Kabs is regarded around here.

Funny that...Kabs has pretty impressive offensive stats to back him up. And was a great skater. And a great puck mover. He was more in the vein of a Paul Coffey type than a Scott Stevens type of defender.

Dion on the other hand? What is it that he excels at again?

 

[TimeZone]

Kaberle
Phaneuf

McCabe

 

[34]

Gardiner will be the best in the very near future.

 

[diceman934]

So well that the Leafs never made the playoffs 2005 onwards while he was with the team. And there was one season where his ATOI was significantly high, which was 2005/26 (28:10). You make it sound like he averaged those minutes every season, which he didn't. Most years it was nothing out of the ordinary for a top pairing defenceman. Fact is he was an offensive defenceman who was a PP specialist and average defensively.

He had many years in the 24 plus minutes a game...

1998/1999 Rookie season 18:42 including 1:12 on PK
1999/2000 22:54 a game team high including 2:38 on PK
2000/2001 22:40 with 2:20 on pk
2001/2002 25:00 a game and a team high 3:16 on pk
2002/2003 24:50 a game with a team high 4:14 on pk
2003/2004 23:11 a game with 3:29 on pk
2005/2006 28:10 a game and a team high 4:31 on PK
2006/2007 25:52 a game with 3:34 on the PK
2007/2008 24:52 a game with 1:12 on pk


He seems to play a lot of minutes in all situations....to call him only an offensive D man is not only wrong but not factual.

If you are going to use playoff to determine who is better Kabs wins that hands down....has Dion ever been part of a team that won a playoff series....no.

 

[Phaneuffan3]

He had many years in the 24 plus minutes a game...

1998/1999 Rookie season 18:42 including 1:12 on PK
1999/2000 22:54 a game team high including 2:38 on PK
2000/2001 22:40 with 2:20 on pk
2001/2002 25:00 a game and a team high 3:16 on pk
2002/2003 24:50 a game with a team high 4:14 on pk
2003/2004 23:11 a game with 3:29 on pk
2005/2006 28:10 a game and a team high 4:31 on PK
2006/2007 25:52 a game with 3:34 on the PK
2007/2008 24:52 a game with 1:12 on pk


He seems to play a lot of minutes in all situations....to call him only an offensive D man is not only wrong but not factual.

If you are going to use playoff to determine who is better Kabs wins that hands down....has Dion ever been part of a team that won a playoff series....no.

I thought the argument was for post lockout, why did you post stats to back up your argument when they clearly do not meet the poll criteria?

Kabs also had a much better team infront of him and a much deeper defence core. At no point during Dions tenure has he had a team close to the teams kabs played on. Same with his defence partners, go look up his partners and compare them to the carl gunnersons and korbinian holzers that dions been paired up with

 

[Bomber0104]

Kaberle...not close either.

Next would be McCabe. Then Beauchemin. Then Phaneuf.