Top 10 defensemen since 2005 #1

[LeafSteel]

Aki Berg.

This!

Aki can still dominate.

Maybe we can sign him to a try-out contract, along with Jyrki Lumme. The can by our Finnish Finisher's.



BB

 

[diceman934]

I thought the argument was for post lockout, why did you post stats to back up your argument when they clearly do not meet the poll criteria?

Kabs also had a much better team infront of him and a much deeper defence core. At no point during Dions tenure has he had a team close to the teams kabs played on. Same with his defence partners, go look up his partners and compare them to the carl gunnersons and korbinian holzers that dions been paired up with

Did you not read the post I was replying to? Hence why I posted those stats...he played a lot of minutes in all situations..

 

[officialmark*]

What is it with over-rating retired players? Kaberle had McCabe, Dion has nobody.

 

[ULF_55]

What is it with over-rating retired players? Kaberle had McCabe, Dion has nobody.

Seems every current Leaf has an excuse for being losers.

It is always someone else's fault why a player isn't living up to the hype.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Seems every current Leaf has an excuse for being losers.

It is always someone else's fault why a player isn't living up to the hype.

Its the new low...now players are rated based on who they get to play with. Wow just wow...does anybody really buy this crap?

Truly great players actually need others to prop them up? Is that how it works? Talk about a delusional fan base.

I guess Kessel is lucky to have Bozak centering him then...for the last 4 freaking years. Kessel is the only great player the Leafs have. And he has managed to finish top 10 scoring based on his own talent DESPITE having to carry a 3rd liner since arriving to Toronto.

 

[ACC1224]

What is it with over-rating retired players? Kaberle had McCabe, Dion has nobody.

Kaberle and McCabe were very good Players, I don't see how they are over-rated.

Phanuef having nobody is the unfortunate truth which is easily seen if you look at the Team objectively.

 

[Gallagbi]

Its the new low...now players are rated based on who they get to play with. Wow just wow...does anybody really buy this crap?

Truly great players actually need others to prop them up? Is that how it works? Talk about a delusional fan base.

I guess Kessel is lucky to have Bozak centering him then...for the last 4 freaking years. Kessel is the only great player the Leafs have. And he has managed to finish top 10 scoring based on his own talent DESPITE having to carry a 3rd liner since arriving to Toronto.

... And many people have said Kessel could be better with a legitimate top line C. I believe you've made that argument.

All players are impacted by their surroundings. It's not groundbreaking to say this.

It's not about propping anyone up its about finding fits to maximize each players abilities.

 

[ULF_55]

... And many people have said Kessel could be better with a legitimate top line C. I believe you've made that argument.

All players are impacted by their surroundings. It's not groundbreaking to say this.

It's not about propping anyone up its about finding fits to maximize each players abilities.

Perhaps it is the true indication that the team, while it has some talent, has no team leader to show the way.

When it is always the fault of the teammate you know they lack someone who everyone follows.

 

[Gallagbi]

Perhaps it is the true indication that the team, while it has some talent, has no team leader to show the way.

When it is always the fault of the teammate you know they lack someone who everyone follows.

Too much is being made of this "everyone else's fault" idea that you're throwing around. Everyone has a share of the blame but it isn't an equal share.

Improving the players on the roster and giving the "top end" more support will obviously help them.

 

[ULF_55]

Too much is being made of this "everyone else's fault" idea that you're throwing around. Everyone has a share of the blame but it isn't an equal share.

Improving the players on the roster and giving the "top end" more support will obviously help them.

If only they had better support/players then they'd be good.

If only the GM had built a stronger foundation then they'd be good.

If only they had teammates like good teams do.

If only their top 6 forwards could play defense ...

If only they didn't collapse when other teams elevate they're play.

Phaneuf is one of the best defenders they've had last 10 years, and he's their best the past 4 season, but it looks like he's in over his head here.

 

[Drew75]

I think it's Paneuf then Kabs then McCabe - and after that it really doesn't matter. In a few years Reilly will top the list, with guys like Gardiner being considered if he can put his game together.

 

[Gallagbi]

If only they had better support/players then they'd be good.

If only the GM had built a stronger foundation then they'd be good.

If only they had teammates like good teams do.

If only their top 6 forwards could play defense ...

If only they didn't collapse when other teams elevate they're play.

Phaneuf is one of the best defenders they've had last 10 years, and he's their best the past 4 season, but it looks like he's in over his head here.

I don't really get your issue.

Do you think Kessel would be better with Thornton (or a similar center) instead of Bozak?

Would Phaneuf be better with someone like Girardi or Seabrook instead of Gunnar?

Yes is the obvious answer in my opinion. That doesn't excuse Phaneuf's poor play down the stretch or Kessel's scoring slowing, but improving the cast makes them better and reduces the likelihood of those struggles. They still should have been better given the situation though.

It's about improvement, not about excuses. To improve you address weaknesses.

 

[TMLegend]

Truly great players make other players around them better. In order for Phaneuf to be good defensemen, I've read on here he needs to be paired with someone who's a top pair defensemen in their own right. Is Jonas Brodin a top pair defensemen? No, but he appears to be because Ryan Suter makes him better when he's paired with him. What about Jake Muzzin? Or how about Josh Gorges when he was paired with Subban? I can go on and on. You know what's truly funny? Whenever I saw Phaneuf play, it appeared Gunnarsson raised Phaneufs lever of play and not vice-versa like it should have been. What a great defensemen we have here folks.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

... And many people have said Kessel could be better with a legitimate top line C. I believe you've made that argument.

All players are impacted by their surroundings. It's not groundbreaking to say this.

It's not about propping anyone up its about finding fits to maximize each players abilities.

Of course Kessel would be better with Thornton..as his C..no doubt. Of Course. But the fact that he is good without a legitimate top line Center tells me that in fact he is good. That's where the difference lies.

I'm not saying Phaneuf SUCKS outright. But he isn't great either. He is a middling mediocre defenseman who makes too much money. I don't want to hear that other teams would have paid him that money. I do not care. I heard other teams wanted David Clarkson too. Too bad they didn't get him and the Leafs did.

For the Leafs to be a serious contender, Dion Phanuef cannot be their best defenseman. I'm not debating whether he is or not because I believe he is. Not for long though. I think there are a couple of young guys on that D that may surpass him soon, if not this year. Whether the young guys will be good enough to lead the team to success remains to be seen.

I don't think Dion is the guy.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

If only they had better support/players then they'd be good.

If only the GM had built a stronger foundation then they'd be good.

If only they had teammates like good teams do.

If only their top 6 forwards could play defense ...

If only they didn't collapse when other teams elevate they're play.

Phaneuf is one of the best defenders they've had last 10 years, and he's their best the past 4 season, but it looks like he's in over his head here.

I'm not sure what your point is either. Most people acknowledge that the Leafs do have some really talented players.

A lot of those people also acknowledge that the team depth, surrounding those talented players, is not quite at the level that they want.

If you're saying that our talented players aren't good enough...well, that's a valid point. You may very well be right.

However, the league's best teams typically have more depth than the lesser teams. Some of them have better depth AND better top-end talent. Those teams usually compete for the cup annually (i.e. Boston, Chicago, and LA).

 

[diceman934]

Seems every current Leaf has an excuse for being losers.

It is always someone else's fault why a player isn't living up to the hype.

Or they have a phantom injury that cause them to play like crap.
The truth hurts but Dion is not a top D man capable of playing the type of minutes he plays...he is a support D man and needs a top D man to play with so that he would not look so bad. He can not skate with the top players in the NHL, his skating is an issue as he has bad feet. Looking at this poll, I would guess that the majority of people who voted for Dion are 25 and younger....we have seen Dion in his prime and sadly he has not been very good!

Look at Salming as an example and tell me that he played with any top D man....he was a true #1 and had no support, he made his partner better and his team better.

Excuses are just that....

 

[Mess]

Polls closed

On to the next thread

/Closed