Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo (MOD WARNINGS: Post #12/#900)

[Levitate]

I like this kid and have high hopes for him but they will quickly fade if he doesn’t make it happen this year and EARLY. He will get passed. He’s too small and doesn’t defend well enough to be a 40 pt guy. He’s going to have to be a 50 pt guy to survive in this league.

Can he be that? I don’t know. I don’t like his shot at all. That hurts him. He moves the puck like a magician though but to be a 50 pt blue liner you’ve got to be able to shoot the puck

Shattenkirk doesn't have much of a shot...yet he manages to be very effective with it. I think it's mainly that he can get it through traffic from the point and doesn't just always shoot for rebounds.

 

[silverfish]

For rookies, particularly defensemen, I 100% believe that the “eye test” (which is a term I hate) plays a far bigger role than statistics. The balance becomes much more even after a couple of years in the league, although I might quibble with the value of some specific statistics even then. It’s too easy for a rookies numbers across the board to be influenced by situational factors. In macrocosm, it’s the same reason why Brady Skjei putting up huge even strength assist numbers, for a rookie, didn’t make me think he was going to be an offensive powerhouse. Situational results aren’t predictive and for rookies and sophomores, they have to be proven one way or the other in subsequent seasons. Until we have those seasons, I tend to lean on observation. All of it comes with the caveat that players often improve over the course of a season and can see leaps in an off-season. I’m not writing DeAngelo off nor am I giving Pionk a pass.

How you balance this stuff is absolutely subjective. There’s nothing wrong with that. The quest for objectivity is boring anyway.

Yeah, I mean, or you could've just looked at the fact that his assists were heavily carried by A2s, and with the understanding that these are far less repeatable than A1s, come to the conclusion that maybe he wouldn't put up those types of numbers again this year.

What's that weird ass saying? Multiple ways to skin a cat?

 

[Thirty One]

What's that weird ass saying? Multiple ways to skin a cat?

Many ways to remove the toes of a baby.

 

[silverfish]

Many ways to remove the toes of a baby.

Ah yes that's it, thank you. Let me write that down and make sure I use it in my next meeting.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, I mean, or you could've just looked at the fact that his assists were heavily carried by A2s, and with the understanding that these are far less repeatable than A1s, come to the conclusion that maybe he wouldn't put up those types of numbers again this year.

What's that weird ass saying? Multiple ways to skin a cat?

I don’t devalue secondary assists.

 

[silverfish]

I don’t devalue secondary assists.

I mean, that's your prerogative for sure. I was just layering some potential objectivity onto your subjectivity.

 

[eco's bones]

Just to add--Shattenkirk is not a particularly good defender either--that complicates things for who is going to be the 2RD.....and is another reason why I think Smith (if he shows up for real this year) is going to be the other RD or the guy who pushes the loser between DeAngelo or Pionk out of the top 6. One of those guys is going to get the assignment of keeping Ovechkin from scoring a hat trick against us every time we play the Capitals. They all have problems---who would you choose?

 

[Kovalev27]

Shattenkirk doesn't have much of a shot...yet he manages to be very effective with it. I think it's mainly that he can get it through traffic from the point and doesn't just always shoot for rebounds.

I have to disagree with you there. shatty has a very solid shot. both wrist shot that he finds a way to get thru and a very good slapper. DeAngelo does not have either imo.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I have to disagree with you there. shatty has a very solid shot. both wrist shot that he finds a way to get thru and a very good slapper. DeAngelo does not have either imo.

DeAngelo is actually very good at shooting for rebounds and deflections. He’s not going to Shea Weber or chara blast it but he gets the job done

 

[Levitate]

I have to disagree with you there. shatty has a very solid shot. both wrist shot that he finds a way to get thru and a very good slapper. DeAngelo does not have either imo.

I don't think he gets any special amount of power or has an amazing release on his wrist shot, he's just very smart at getting it through traffic and actually aiming to score goals not just throwing it on net

 

[Rempe73]

he couldn't produce a single goal in 530 minutes of total icetime and 62 minutes of PP time. All he managed was 8 assists in that span.

So what? I mean, D-men don't have to score goals. As long as they can rack up the points, it doesn't matter how they get them. Take Pionk for example. He was given plenty of minutes, but only managed to score one goal. That's because he's more of a playmaking D-man, and so is DeAngelo. Besides, DeAngelo's low PDO shows that he was unlucky last year.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

So what? I mean, D-men don't have to score goals. As long as they can rack up the points, it doesn't matter how they get them. Take Pionk for example. He was given plenty of minutes, but only managed to score one goal. That's because he's more of a playmaking D-man, and so is DeAngelo. Besides, DeAngelo's low PDO shows that he was unlucky last year.

he did not rack up points. Pionk did, and Pionk had no prior NHL experience.

 

[aufheben]

Going to be interesting here next year reading about Pionk when his PDO comes down.

 

[Rempe73]

he did not rack up points. Pionk did, and Pionk had no prior NHL experience.

Yes, I know DeAngelo didn't have a lot of points, but their underlying stats show that Pionk was lucky and DeAngelo was unlucky.

 

[eco's bones]

Yes, I know DeAngelo didn't have a lot of points, but their underlying stats show that Pionk was lucky and DeAngelo was unlucky.

The both of them are the same age and the same size. The 2RD job is wide open for either one of them and there's a new coaching staff. Keeping in mind that 2RD is going to need to play not only a puck moving offensive game but a rounded game as well. The 2RD is going to have to have to kill penalties especially if the 1RD--Shattenkirk doesn't. That's how either Pionk or DeAngelo claim the job by showing not only the skills required to move the puck but also the versatility to play in different and lesser appreciated situations--if neither of them can do at least an adequate job of the rounded game--I suspect the Rangers will move before the season is over to get an RD who can. That might just be what the Rangers target when they move Zuccarello and/or Hayes if at least one of them doesn't do well enough.

 

[Riche16]

Not sure that ADA holds any real value at this point so moving him may not be an option.

I hope he realizes the situation he’s in. He very well be out of the league after this season if he doesn’t step up (or at least waiver fodder). With the mildly stocked cupboard we now have, it’ll be a dogfight for him.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think that the team used Pionk how they did, and then Gorts brought him to the WC, shows he's probably the favorite for a RD spot over everyone except Shattenkirk. Obviously the new coach will have a say, as will play during camp and the early part of the season, but I think ADA is really going to have to outplay Pionk to get that 2RD spot.

 

[Fitzy]

he did not rack up points. Pionk did, and Pionk had no prior NHL experience.

That said, Pionk very clearly racked up incidental points ala Holden 2016. I don't expect him to be a consistent .5ppg player.

I would be much higher on DeAngelo had he blown people away in the AHL. Then, at least, we could say that it was a earning issue rather than his level of play just not being that high.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I don't think there is a player on the roster who will benefit more from the coaching change than DeAngelo.

One has to wonder.....how many coaches has he played under? He's on his third organization, all with the same result: he hasn't cracked the lineup in any of them.

 

[eco's bones]

The 2RD job looks like it's there for the taking. There isn't really a vet RD with the skill level needed for that waiting in the weeds that they have to beat out--so failing to take advantage when a golden opportunity is staring you in the face would not be a good thing for your long term longevity with the team--just an opinion. There are the lefties Smith and Kampfer who have played on the right but those guys aren't the guys you'd want to see in that role. The Rangers IMO want either Pionk or DeAngelo to claim that spot. Decent chance the loser ends up somewhere else.

 

[Tawnos]

@eco's bones Kampfer is a righty. And I’m convinced that Smith is better on the right anyway. Can he be a 2RD if he gets back to form? Maybe. Honestly I’d rather have a kid there no matter what.

I wonder how differentiated the ES defensive minutes are going to be to begin with though. 2nd pairing vs 3rd pairing might not mean all that much next year.

 

[eco's bones]

@eco's bones Kampfer is a righty. And I’m convinced that Smith is better on the right anyway. Can he be a 2RD if he gets back to form? Maybe. Honestly I’d rather have a kid there no matter what.

I wonder how differentiated the ES defensive minutes are going to be to begin with though. 2nd pairing vs 3rd pairing might not mean all that much next year.

My mistake on Kampfer. Steve's not really in the running for the 2RD anyway--he's more likely a 7D or in Hartford or picked up by another team. Both Pionk and DeAngelo are a whole lot better at carrying and moving the puck than Smith who is best when he's keeping things as simple as possible. I really don't think Brendan's the guy you want taking on that role and especially if the 2LD turns out to be Marc Staal.

 

[aufheben]

One has to wonder.....how many coaches has he played under? He's on his third organization, all with the same result: he hasn't cracked the lineup in any of them.

He's played 39 and 30 games. 71 games at 22 years old.

 

[Tawnos]

My mistake on Kampfer. Steve's not really in the running for the 2RD anyway--he's more likely a 7D or in Hartford or picked up by another team. Both Pionk and DeAngelo are a whole lot better at carrying and moving the puck than Smith who is best when he's keeping things as simple as possible. I really don't think Brendan's the guy you want taking on that role and especially if the 2LD turns out to be Marc Staal.

Right, but again the differentiation between 2 and 3 LD might not matter. If Marc Staal is getting 13 or 14 ES minutes per night and Smith is getting the same but on a different pairing, then which one is really your 2 or 3 pairing?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

One has to wonder.....how many coaches has he played under? He's on his third organization, all with the same result: he hasn't cracked the lineup in any of them.

He made the lineup on the Coyotes...