Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

[BaseballCoach]

If Schueneman can keep playing solid on our 3rd pairing I can see him getting a similar to Kulak-type return.

Schueneman is an AHL defenceman who can be called up if COVID ravages the team.

Finally someone that did his research , people thinks Sergachev is like just a tourist during Tampa cups.

Dude is a stud. He's a great d-man with Hedman and Mcdonagh on his side. They fleeced so hard in that trade.

But some posters here knew that day 1 that trade was a disaster like the Subban one.

As for Toffoli I think we got a good return

You made perfect sense until you said the Subban trade was a disaster. Until 2021, the only redeeming feature of that trade for Nashville was that they made the finals once. Weber erased that last point in 2021.

Not close, Subban fell off the planet after a couple of years.

 

[Tyson]

Schueneman is an AHL defenceman who can be called up if COVID ravages the team.


You made perfect sense until you said the Subban trade was a disaster. Until 2021, the only redeeming feature of that trade for Nashville was that they made the finals once. Weber erased that last point in 2021.

Not close, Subban fell off the planet after a couple of years.

Yeah Subban thought sacrificing speed for thickenss was the right strategy...it clearly wasnt.

 

[BLONG7]

Yeah Subban thought sacrificing speed for thickenss was the right strategy...it clearly wasnt.

I think PK can now tryout for the NFL as RB............losing his footspeed as a PMD really seemed to hurt him as a player. He has been awful while in NJ.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I think PK can now tryout for the NFL as RB............losing his footspeed as a PMD really seemed to hurt him as a player. He has been awful while in NJ.

I have been telling people forever that he was always slow and could not to afford to lose a step or he would be awful.

Now can we get back to the thread topic

 

[BLONG7]

I have been telling people forever that he was always slow and could not to afford to lose a step or he would be awful.

Now can we get back to the thread topic

For sure
He was good for years with habs though

Back to the deal with the flames, we got a 1st and a prospect which is great and as much as I liked Toffolli when with the Habs I hate the flames and their characters so kudos to Hughes again!
We will pick 27th?

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

For sure
He was good for years with habs though

Back to the deal with the flames, we got a 1st and a prospect which is great and as much as I liked Toffolli when with the Habs I hate the flames and their characters so kudos to Hughes again!
We will pick 27th?

We will pick 26th if NYR wins and 27th if Carolina wins.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Yeah Subban thought sacrificing speed for thickenss was the right strategy...it clearly wasnt.

His overt decline in skating ability was apparent to some. We waited two years too long before trading him. As always, you assess any trade not by the return that you actually received but by what what you could (should) have received.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Toffoli couldn't keep up versus Edmonton. Great regular season player, but too slow for playoffs once the hard skating really starts.

We traded him at right time for sure.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It wasn't good value.

Drouin had already been in the league for a while and was basically what he was.

Tampa was also in an extremely tough spot with the expansion draft.

They either had to expose him or ship him out on the cheap.

We paid way too high of a price there. Drouin could have been had for a draft pick but instead we shipped out our best propect since Subban.

That's just the value aspect. Then there's the player, who despite being young had a deeply flawed game and had a fairly disappointing first few seasons in the league. He's not someone we should have been targeting.

The deal was extremely poor at the time and only got worse in hindsight as Drouin's play got even worse from where it was.

I’m ok with gambling on elite talent and that’s what Drouin was considered to be.

What I’m not good with however is trading for him and then not building up the rest of the team. I’m also not good with bringing him here and putting him at center (while moving Chuck to the wing) and expecting him to produce.

On paper… the trade is fine (at the time) but the way we did things after was just so stupid. If you’re going to blow up the team and have ten mil in open cap space it makes absolutely no sense to make that trade.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Frankly I think Toffoli is one of the more overrated players in the league. I would suggest that a growing number of Flames fans would tend to agree with that assessment. I agree that we received excellent value for a player that is at best, a supportive player.

He’s a streaky scorer. Good guy for the 2nd line but not somebody I’d want to depend on to carry the load. I don’t think they got bad value considering it’s a late first.

That being said TT clearly didn’t deliver the way he should. I hope he turns it around next year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

With Calgary now out do we know the pick number? 26th?

 

[Doublechin]

With Calgary now out do we now the pick number? 26th?

I believe it's 26 or 27th

 

[KevSkillz4]

With Calgary now out do we know the pick number? 26th?I

If Canes win against Rangers, it's 27 and if Rangers win against Carolina, it's 26.

 

[26Mats]

If Canes lose against Rangers, it's 27 and if Rangers win against Carolina, it's 26.

26 sounds better than 27. Go Rangers!

His overt decline in skating ability was apparent to some. We waited two years too long before trading him. As always, you assess any trade not by the return that you actually received but by what what you could (should) have received.

.weber was still a hood return. What were the slternatives?

 

[rahad]

Toffoli couldn't keep up versus Edmonton. Great regular season player, but too slow for playoffs once the hard skating really starts.

We traded him at right time for sure.

2021-22	Montreal Canadiens	NHL	37	9	17	26
2021-22	Calgary Flames	NHL	37	11	12	23

I'm not that sure about that. How on earth, did he had more points with a bottom playing team like us....

He started on fire the first 15 games with the flames. Before slowing down hard the rest of the season.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

2021-22	Montreal Canadiens	NHL	37	9	17	26
2021-22	Calgary Flames	NHL	37	11	12	23

I'm not that sure about that. How on earth, did he had more points with a bottom playing team like us....

He started on fire the first 15 games with the flames. Before slowing down hard the rest of the season.

Hm, I really wonder why.

 

[Redux91]

If Canes lose against Rangers, it's 27 and if Rangers win against Carolina, it's 26.

Can you re-read this please lol
My brain hurts

 

[KevSkillz4]

Can you re-read this please lol
My brain hurts

I just edit that hahaha.

 

[MasterD]

Frankly I think Toffoli is one of the more overrated players in the league. I would suggest that a growing number of Flames fans would tend to agree with that assessment. I agree that we received excellent value for a player that is at best, a supportive player.

He's definitely a supporting player to be out on the 2nd line, but he's paid accordingly. Wasn't he our best scorer in the COVID year? His problem is he can't skate.

A less whiny Micheal Ryder.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

That’s not saying much and I’m honestly not even sure about that. He makes a lot of mistakes and is extremely sheltered in Tampa.

Put Romanov in Tampa and he probably has 40 points too. Romanov > Sergachev

Also, Toffoli sucks. Good riddance. Good return.

 

[Kriss E]

.weber was still a hood return. What were the slternatives?

It was a decent return. Given the age of players, a 1-for-1 swap made no sense at all. We should have at least asked for a prospect as well. But we know both Bergevin and Therrien had huge boners for Weber, as Bergevin famously said ''when you get Weber, you don't ask for more'', which was a comical assertion.
We don't know the alternatives, none of us are NHL GMs, but for sure there would have been other takers with a more interesting return.

 

[Ezpz]

I hate the Rangers but it would be good for them to win. It would show Gorton built a good team and would give us a better pick this season.

 

[Habs]

Schueneman is an AHL defenceman who can be called up if COVID ravages the team.


You made perfect sense until you said the Subban trade was a disaster. Until 2021, the only redeeming feature of that trade for Nashville was that they made the finals once. Weber erased that last point in 2021.

Not close, Subban fell off the planet after a couple of years.

Loved Webs, I'll never regret that trade.

I hate the Rangers but it would be good for them to win. It would show Gorton built a good team and would give us a better pick this season.

I agree, I hate Carolina more than Boston at this point. Hope they go down

 

[JoelWarlord]

It was a decent return. Given the age of players, a 1-for-1 swap made no sense at all. We should have at least asked for a prospect as well. But we know both Bergevin and Therrien had huge boners for Weber, as Bergevin famously said ''when you get Weber, you don't ask for more'', which was a comical assertion.
We don't know the alternatives, none of us are NHL GMs, but for sure there would have been other takers with a more interesting return.

Yeah, I agree with you the swap for Weber 1 for 1 worked out about as well as it possibly could have, and he had surprisingly good longevity, but it's hard to believe there wasn't a deal out there built around primarily younger players and/or prospects that would be paying better dividends to the team now. I'll enjoy the memories of the 2021 playoff run as much as anyone but it's hard not to shake the sense that in 2022 we should probably have something to show for a Norris-level defenceman we traded away in 2016.

_______________

RE: Toffoli, I think it should be clear by now that the initial bellyaching about the trade return being "light" was pretty unfounded. He was traded as a rental from LA to Vancouver for a 2nd and a B prospect (Tyler Madden) with roughly equivalent value to Heineman, and we got a 1st + a B prospect and a throw-in pick. Seems pretty much exactly in line that we upgrade the pick from a 2nd to a 1st given he has 2 more years left instead of being a rental.

I think we just bought too much into a career year in a weird division and acted like we moved a dominant 1st line forward. He's a middle-six guy on a good team, and he got a trade return befitting of that kind of player. It's not like we moved a 40 goal a year stud.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Yeah, I agree with you the swap for Weber 1 for 1 worked out about as well as it possibly could have, and he had surprisingly good longevity, but it's hard to believe there wasn't a deal out there built around primarily younger players and/or prospects that would be paying better dividends to the team now. You have to give them credit for the "plan" working out with the final run last year, but that has to be balanced against the fact we'd likely be on a playoff drought dating back to 2017 if it weren't for covid.

I was a strong critic of the trade and I'm happy to admit I was wrong in my assessment of Weber as the return, but I think the present evaluation of it as an unimpeachably good trade is questionable. I'll enjoy the memories of the 2021 playoff run as much as anyone but it's hard not to shake the sense that in 2022 we should probably have something to show for a Norris-level defenceman we traded away in 2016, although who knows what that means in terms of what front office we'd end up with, and perhaps we don't ever end up with Suzuki or Caufield in that timeline.

There was a deal in place before that, it was Subban for Draisaitl, Bergevin declined.