Toews vs Bergeron

[895]

Who do you draft as an 18 year old rookie?

Assume they will stay on your team their entire careers and will always re-sign for a reasonable contract.

Click to read more...

 

[ThatsSoSlavin]

The longevity of bergs peak seals it for me, imo if you replaces Toews with berg Chicago still wins those cups

can I have both?

 

[Deam78]

Not knowing how I would be able to surround them in the future, I like Toews' offensive upside and ability to create on his own a bit more

Very close imo

 

[JaegerDice]

Toews peaked higher and earlier in his career. If the goal of a draft pick is to have as much impact as quickly as possible, you take Toews.

Bergeron has obviously has had greater longevity.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Bergeron.

He's your #1 or #2 center for his entire goddamn career.
Less clutch than Toews but than again, he's perhaps the best 200ft player of his generation (aside of Crosby).

 

[Hisch13r]

Bergeron for sure.

 

[Regal]

Toews peaked higher and earlier in his career. If the goal of a draft pick is to have as much impact as quickly as possible, you take Toews.

Bergeron has obviously has had greater longevity.

This is generally my thinking in a redraft, and if I'm GM I would always go that route partially for selfish reasons since you probably won't last their careers, and partially because in general you don't know if you can keep a player under contract long term. If I know they'll stay with the team for a reasonable amount like in the OP, though, and if I'm looking at if from the perspective of someone who is invested in the franchise long-term, like a fan, I'd take Bergeron because I think he's had the more valuable overall career at this point and provides that stability over a longer period.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Nearly identical offensively.

Career highs:

Goals - Toews 35, Bergeron 32
Points - Toews 79, Bergeron 75
PPG - Toews 1.02, Bergeron 1.22

Career PPG - Toews 0.86, Bergeron 0.80

Bergeron is arguably the best defensive forward in league history. This is where he separates himself from Toews.

Selke finishes:

Toews - 1,2,2,3,4,5
Bergeron - 1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,5

 

[BlueMed]

Bergeron.

He's your #1 or #2 center for his entire goddamn career.
Less clutch than Toews but than again, he's perhaps the best 200ft player of his generation (aside of Crosby).

Sorry but Bergeron doesn't touch Datsyuk, the best 200 foot player ever.

As for this poll, I gotta go with Toews. He's got that rare clutch factor that allows his team to still be in a game with 10 seconds left.

 

[Ivo]

The only thing that makes this close is the freak injury that ruined much of the first half of Bergeron’s career. I am convinced that without that injury, there would be no debate about who had a more impactful career. Longevity-wise, Bergeron is 3 years older and still playing at his best, while Toews has declined a long time ago. Toews has the advantage in early career, but Bergeron’s early career was ruined by Randy Jones, so we didn’t really see what he could have done.

 

[bobholly39]

The longevity of bergs peak seals it for me, imo if you replaces Toews with berg Chicago still wins those cups

can I have both?

That's absolutely impossible to say.

What we know - Chicago won 3 cups, and Toews was instrumental on-ice, and is largely hailed as one of the greatest captains/leaders ever, which probably helped those cups a lot.

Bergeron is great and all - but you can't just assume Chicago still wins even one cup, let alone all 3.

That's why I picked Toews.

 

[The Murph]

The only thing that makes this close is the freak injury that ruined much of the first half of Bergeron’s career. I am convinced that without that injury, there would be no debate about who had a more impactful career. Longevity-wise, Bergeron is 3 years older and still playing at his best, while Toews has declined a long time ago. Toews has the advantage in early career, but Bergeron’s early career was ruined by Randy Jones, so we didn’t really see what he could have done.

He took so long to get his game back after that hit, basically 4 years, and even then, he still wasn't able to produce the numbers he did before the injury. He hit 70 point twice before the injury and it took him 11 years later to hit 70 again. Other injuries didn't help, but still...

I really do wonder the numbers he would have been able to put up without the injury. If you watch highlights of how he played before, he was pretty damn fast, with some great hands, and real hard to push off the puck.

But his ability to play at a high level this late in his career is very impressive.

I'm biased, got to take Bergeron.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Toews, all day, every day.

 

[BlueBaron]

Surprisingly Toews has a slightly higher point per game. .86 vs .80.

These two compare well. I fear Bergeron more but that could be Leaf trauma speaking. Without looking it up I'd guess he has a slight edge in awards and votes for awards.

Either one can play on my team.

 

[Ivo]

He took so long to get his game back after that hit, basically 4 years, and even then, he still wasn't able to produce the numbers he did before the injury. He hit 70 point twice before the injury and it took him 11 years later to hit 70 again. Other injuries didn't help, but still...

I really do wonder the numbers he would have been able to put up without the injury. If you watch highlights of how he played before, he was pretty damn fast, with some great hands, and real hard to push off the puck.

But his ability to play at a high level this late in his career is very impressive.

I'm biased, got to take Bergeron.

Yes, completely agree, he was an offensive dynamo and that hit really derailed his career. Of course, his lower point totals mid-career were also the result of how he was being used - Savard and then Krejci were getting all the premium offensive opportunities (I guess that might be the case with Toews and Kane as well though, to be fair).

 

[PB37]

Both are winners

Both are leader of men

Both are elite in faceoffs

Bergeron better longevity

Toews better peak

Toews ( 70 point average ) slightly better at offensive production than Bergeron ( 66 point average )

Bergeron clear advantage defensively

 

[ThatsSoSlavin]

That's absolutely impossible to say.

What we know - Chicago won 3 cups, and Toews was instrumental on-ice, and is largely hailed as one of the greatest captains/leaders ever, which probably helped those cups a lot.

Bergeron is great and all - but you can't just assume Chicago still wins even one cup, let alone all 3.

That's why I picked Toews.

Of course it’s impossible to say, that’s why I said “in my opinion”

 

[Bouboumaster]

Sorry but Bergeron doesn't touch Datsyuk, the best 200 foot player ever.

As for this poll, I gotta go with Toews. He's got that rare clutch factor that allows his team to still be in a game with 10 seconds left.

Than again, I'd take Crosby over Datsyuk if we're going all-time and outside of those two choices lol

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He took so long to get his game back after that hit, basically 4 years, and even then, he still wasn't able to produce the numbers he did before the injury. He hit 70 point twice before the injury and it took him 11 years later to hit 70 again. Other injuries didn't help, but still...

I really do wonder the numbers he would have been able to put up without the injury. If you watch highlights of how he played before, he was pretty damn fast, with some great hands, and real hard to push off the puck.

But his ability to play at a high level this late in his career is very impressive.

I'm biased, got to take Bergeron.

How much of that is due to the injury, and how much of that is due to linemates/usage by the coach?

We can't just ignore that Bergeron's offensive resurgence also coincided with Marchand blossoming into an elite offensive performer and Pastrnak hitting his stride as a scorer, as well as being used more in offensive situations rather than getting swamped in D-zone starts.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The correct answer to the poll is "Zetterberg".

/thread

 

[COHawk]

The correct answer to the poll is "Zetterberg".

/thread

Cool dude

 

[BlueMed]

Both are winners

Both are leader of men

Both are elite in faceoffs

Bergeron better longevity

Toews better peak

Toews ( 70 point average ) slightly better at offensive production than Bergeron ( 66 point average )

Bergeron clear advantage defensively

So you're really saying Bergeron without explicitly saying Bergeron? Last time I checked, Toews and Bergeron went head to head in the 2013 cup finals, and Toews was the bigger impact. Just like ROR got the best of Bergeron in the 2019 finals. What I'm getting at here is that reputation alone gives some players so much benefit of the doubt, when in reality, there are many players in the same ballpark with no significant difference between them.

 

[PB37]

So you're really saying Bergeron without explicitly saying Bergeron? Last time I checked, Toews and Bergeron went head to head in the 2013 cup finals, and Toews was the bigger impact. Just like ROR got the best of Bergeron in the 2019 finals. What I'm getting at here is that reputation alone gives some players so much benefit of the doubt, when in reality, there are many players in the same ballpark with no significant difference between them.

Did you need me to spell it out more for you? I laid it all out there pretty clearly and yes, i voted Bergeron. His longevity and his defense outweighs the other areas that they're close in.

Bergeron had 4 goals in 4 games, tying him for the series lead in goals before getting hospitalized in the 2nd period in Game 5 and nearly died trying to come back and play in Game 6. He's also outplayed Toews in just about every head to head game since.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

So you're really saying Bergeron without explicitly saying Bergeron? Last time I checked, Toews and Bergeron went head to head in the 2013 cup finals, and Toews was the bigger impact. Just like ROR got the best of Bergeron in the 2019 finals. What I'm getting at here is that reputation alone gives some players so much benefit of the doubt, when in reality, there are many players in the same ballpark with no significant difference between them.

Ahh there it is. Shoehorning the Blues win over the Bruins like you do in every post including you saying that Tarasenko is better than Pastrnak.

Believe it or not, it takes a good *team* to win the cup and win a series. Just because the Hawks and Blues were the better team in a 7 game series doesn't mean anything when comparing 2 individual players.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

bergeron