Today's Slapshot Flames draft preview

OvermanKingGainer

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I think Wotherspoon, Morrison, Culkin and Hickey all have top 4 potential. But I don't think any of them have top 2 potential.

I would take Wotherspoon and Culkin out and replace them with Kulak and Rafikov. I don't think Wotherspoon has top 4 potential to be honest, and while Culkin could do it, my gut tells me he won't.
 

Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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I would take Wotherspoon and Culkin out and replace them with Kulak and Rafikov. I don't think Wotherspoon has top 4 potential to be honest, and while Culkin could do it, my gut tells me he won't.
So Wotherspoon (2 full-time AHL seasons) and Culkin (who was the biggest positive surprise) have no top 4 potential but Kulak who wasn't even an AHL regular this year and Rafikov who has yet to even make his KHL team do have top 4 potential? Yeah, okay.
 

herashak

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Mar 24, 2013
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I think wotherspoon definitely has top 4 potential. I like his combination of poise and size, when i watched him at the end of the 13/14 season he looked like a young hjalmarsson. obviously he probably doesn't reach that level but with a full offseason to train i think he cracks the team and proves why he was the #1 guy in the AHL.
 

OvermanKingGainer

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Feb 3, 2015
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So Wotherspoon has no top 4 potential but Kulak who wasn't even an AHL regular this year and Rafikov who has yet to even make his KHL team do have top 4 potential? Yeah, okay.

The same kind of logic you probably would have used to show Phaneuf would be better than Giordano based on one's struggles to get a 1-way contract and the other's immediate success, or that Erixon would turn out better than Brodie. No, I can't argue with you right now, because I'm not basing on the past, I'm projecting the future based on what these guys can do right now.

I don't see anything about Wotherspoon's game to write home about. He's decent defensively, but he's not Vlasic or Hjalmarsson even at the AHL level. Offensively he'll never be anything special as even at the AHL level he put up less PPG than Culkin or Kulak despite a year head start. He's spectacular at nothing and solid at a few things. That sounds like a typical #5 defenseman. I'm not saying he's gonna be a useless plug like Engelland, I'm saying he'll be a solid 15 minute depth Dman like David Schlemko which is a good player to have. Right now he is not even close to that.

And using Kulak's time in the ECHL against him is typical. He got sent down after six whole tough games as a rookie, playing for a deer-in-headlights rookie head coach. He didn't get sent down because he was playing terribly (though he was, for a six game sample size, playing worse than Culkin), he got sent down because the team had about 10 defensemen it was trying to rotate, and he needed playing time as did Culkin. When Kulak was playing Culkin was getting scratched and when Culkin was playing Kulak was getting scratched - and sitting is not good for a rookie's development.

In the ECHL he threw up 30 points in 39 games as a 20 year old while developing his overall game (which, last I checked, is what's important). And guess what, he spent the last three months of the season back up in the AHL, where in 20 games he threw out three goals, nine assists, +4 (and Ortio was out for much of that stretch, so goaltending was a total mess). 12 points in 20 games from a 20 year old at the AHL level is rock-solid. Brodie at the same age, his last 20 games of that season, put up similar 2 goals, 9 assists, -1. Kulak's total AHL stats are .5PPG and TJ Brodie's total rookie AHL stats were .5PPG. But I don't really care about stats, I'm just basing my opinion based on eye test. Kulak looks like a top 4 D once his development is finished, Wotherspoon looks like a bottom pairing guy but could surprise me and I'd sure welcome it. You're grasping at straws if you think Wotherspoon's 2013-14 season had the same context as Kulak's 2014-15 season. No rookie was gonna be taking Wotherspoon's ice time from him, and he wasn't taking anyone's ice time away either. Kulak not only had to compete with with his Dark Link, Ryan Culkin, but Sieloff also needed playing time after missing a full year of development.

Your logic is the kind that would expect Acolatse to have top 4 pairing potential (4 whole AHL seasons!) and Ortio to not even make the NHL.

As for Rafikov, no he didn't make his KHL team as a 19 year old. The KHL is the second best league in the world (better than the AHL, which Wotherspoon didn't make until he was 20?) and Lokomotiv was the 10th best team in that league out of 28. Rafikov exactly did to the VHL (which is Russia's version of the AHL, BTW) as a 19 year old rookie what Culkin did to the AHL as a 20 year old rookie and was beast in the playoffs. Then once his team got eliminated he went back down to Russian Junior and destroyed it. He was also a rock in international play.

and Culkin (who was the biggest positive surprise)

I think Culkin can be a ~#4 too but probably not a #3+. But his shot will be the biggest thing holding him back from getting up to a middle pairing, reminds me of Diaz where it's not really a threat. Until then, he's probably limited to bottom pairing, because an offensive defenseman who can't really score goals has a tough-out. He has all the tools to even be top pairing though if his shot comes into the picture. His shot is really the one thing holding him back but if he can make strides as a shooter next year, I would happily bump him up.
 
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Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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The same kind of logic you probably would have used to show Phaneuf would be better than Giordano based on one's struggles to get a 1-way contract and the other's immediate success, or that Erixon would turn out better than Brodie. No, I can't argue with you right now, because I'm not basing on the past, I'm projecting the future based on what these guys can do right now.
Clearly you aren't since what Culkin & Wotherspoon have done is significantly more impressive than Kulak or Rafikov.

I don't see anything about Wotherspoon's game to write home about. He's decent defensively, but he's not Vlasic or Hjalmarsson even at the AHL level. Offensively he'll never be anything special as even at the AHL level he put up less PPG than Culkin or Kulak despite a year head start. He's spectacular at nothing and solid at a few things. That sounds like a typical #5 defenseman. I'm not saying he's gonna be a useless plug like Engelland, I'm saying he'll be a solid 15 minute depth Dman like David Schlemko which is a good player to have. Right now he is not even close to that.
Then you aren't paying attention. Wotherspoon has a bomb from the point, he plays very good positional defense, he moves the puck well and can play a bit of a physical game. There is a very good reason why Wotherspoon has seen NHL in his first 2 pro seasons.

And using Kulak's time in the ECHL against him is typical. He got sent down after six whole tough games as a rookie. He didn't get sent down because he was playing terribly, he got sent down because the team had about 10 defensemen it was trying to rotate, and he needed playing time as did Culkin. When Kulak was playing Culkin was getting scratched and when Culkin was playing Kulak was getting scratched - and sitting is not good for a rookie's development.

In the ECHL he threw up 30 points in 39 games as a 20 year old while developing his overall game (which, last I checked, is what's important). And guess what, he spent the last three months of the season back up in the AHL, where in 20 games he threw out four goals, nine assists, +4 (and Ortio was out for much of that stretch, the older more experienced Wotherspoon only a +2 in the same stretch). 13 points in 20 games from a 20 year old at the AHL level is rock-solid. Brodie at the same age, his last 20 games of that season, put up similar 2 goals, 9 assists, -1. Kulak's total AHL stats are .5PPG and TJ Brodie's total rookie AHL stats were .5PPG. But I don't really care about stats, I'm just basing my opinion based on eye test. Kulak looks like a top 4 D once his development is finished, Wotherspoon looks like a bottom pairing guy but could surprise me and I'd sure welcome it.
Yes it is typical because HE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO HOLD DOWN A SPOT IN THE AHL, that is kind of a big thing. Yes, there were too many defensemen to start the year, but Kulak never stepped up and took that job. And what does their +/- matter when Wotherspoon was playing top minutes and Kulak on teh bottom pairing? That's like comparing Brodie to Engelland.

As for Rafikov, no he didn't make his KHL team as a 19 year old. The KHL is the second best league in the world (better than the AHL, which Wotherspoon didn't make until he was 20?) and Lokomotiv was the 10th best team in that league out of 28. Rafikov exactly did to the VHL (which is Russia's version of the AHL, BTW) as a 19 year old rookie what Culkin did to the AHL as a 20 year old rookie and was beast in the playoffs. Then once his team got eliminated he went back down to Russian Junior and destroyed it. He was also a rock in international play.
Whether the KHL is better than the AHL is debatable, the KHL has higher end talent but the AHL has better depth. And comparing the VHL to the AHL is like comparing the CHL to the NHL, completely useless. Also if you are going to talk a big game you should be aware of things like the fact that Wotherspoon was not allowed to play in the AHL at the age of 19, he was in the AHL at the youngest age he was allowed.

I think Culkin can be a ~#4 too but probably not a #3+. But his shot will be the biggest thing holding him back from getting up to a middle pairing, reminds me of Diaz where it's not really a threat. Until then, he's probably limited to bottom pairing, because an offensive defenseman who can't really score goals has a tough-out. He has all the tools to even be top pairing though if his shot comes into the picture. His shot is really the one thing holding him back but if he can make strides as a shooter next year, I would happily bump him up.
Culkin is probably the closest we have to a Brodie clone, he skates very well and move the puck extremely well. He's bigger than Diaz, skates better than Diaz, moves the puck better than Diaz and plays better defense than Diaz. There is absolutely no reason to think Kulak will be better than Culkin at this time because there games are so similar (if you watched them and didn't just read stats sheets you would know this) and Culkin has proved himself to be much further ahead. If it weren't for Culkin's injury it is unlikely Kulak would have even been back in the AHL.
 

InfinityIggy

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Jan 30, 2011
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I think Wotherspoon, Morrison, Culkin and Hickey all have top 4 potential. But I don't think any of them have top 2 potential.

I think all the guys you listed could be middle pairing guys, but I feel like everything would have to go right for them to get there. I think most of them should be good bets for bottom pairing guys though.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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Clearly you aren't since what Culkin & Wotherspoon have done is significantly more impressive than Kulak or Rafikov.

They haven't done anything. Any of the four. And none of them will have done anything until they have done something. Projecting based on factors outside of their control or a handful of good or bad games is ridiculous.

Projection Project says this though based on "what they've done" so far:

Kulak has a 20% chance of making the NHL. Of the players who did what he's done:

Elite: 7
First: 17
Second: 20
Third: 12
Depth: 3

Culkin has a 24% chance of making the NHL. Of the players who did what he's done:

Elite: 6
First: 18
Second: 21
Third: 12
Depth: 2

Wotherspoon has a 16% chance of making the NHL. Of the players who did what he's done:

Elite: 4
First: 10
Second: 12
Third: 14
Depth: 4

So not only does Wotherspoon have the worst chance of making the NHL, but the least of his comparables were Elite, the least of his comparables were 1st pairing, the least of his comparables were second pairing, the most of his comparables were 3rd pairing, and the most of his comparables were 7th D.

But I guess historical statistics don't pay attention, only you do.

Then you aren't paying attention. Wotherspoon has a bomb from the point, he plays very good positional defense, he moves the puck well and can play a bit of a physical game. There is a very good reason why Wotherspoon has seen NHL in his first 2 pro seasons.

Wotherspoon saw NHL in his first pro season because the team was in the Aaron Ekblad sweep stakes. He wasn't exactly great in his first stint here, though I like him. He showed nothing that implies he can be a top 4D. Also for a guy with a "bomb from the point" he in 109 AHL games has scored less goals than Kulak has in 26 AHL games. And lastly, he got into some games this year after not one, but three of this team's top 7D were injured. And even then, Hartley said verbatim that his decision to play Wotherspoon was only because of the youth movement, and that it was a tie between Wotherspoon and "career journeyman" Corey Potter on who should play based on actual ability.

He does not play "very good positional defense". He plays "very good positional defense for a 21 year old". Just like Culkin, Kulak play "very good positional defense for a 20 year old" and honestly the same could be said about a lot of prospects. That's why they're NHL prospects.

Yes it is typical because HE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO HOLD DOWN A SPOT IN THE AHL, that is kind of a big thing. Yes, there were too many defensemen to start the year, but Kulak never stepped up and took that job.

And you think Patrick Sieloff or Sena Acolatse were "good enough to hold down a spot in the AHL"? Don't make me laugh. Who cares if Kulak never stepped up to take that job in a whopping six games? Do six games erase the other three years he's steadily progressed since being drafted?

And what does their +/- matter when Wotherspoon was playing top minutes and Kulak on teh bottom pairing?

Okay fine, +/- doesn't matter.

Whether the KHL is better than the AHL is debatable

It really isn't.

Also if you are going to talk a big game you should be aware of things like the fact that Wotherspoon was not allowed to play in the AHL at the age of 19, he was in the AHL at the youngest age he was allowed.

So rules are allowed to stop a player from playing in a league, but a handful of people with power with a plethora of varying motives on a single team with a veteran roster deciding a player shouldn't play in a league is an indictment of that player's talent. :shakehead

and Culkin has proved himself to be much further ahead.

In what way has he proved himself to be "much" further ahead? You seem to agree iwth me that their games are so similar, yet Kulak has consistently scored more goals at every level, while doing pretty much everything else at a similar level.

If it weren't for Culkin's injury it is unlikely Kulak would have even been back in the AHL.

And if it wasn't for Kulak's mediocre whopping six games (six games. Let's repeat that one more time now, six games as a rookie) it is unlikely Kulak would have ever been in the ECHL. Either, Or, does not define the player's ability for the rest of their career. ALl they define are circumstances. If using ECHL assignments or NHL callups reduces a chance of a player making the NHL, then by your logic Max Reinhart was more likely to make the NHL than Micheal Ferland at the start of this season.

He's bigger than Diaz, skates better than Diaz, moves the puck better than Diaz and plays better defense than Diaz.

Oh, so he's already better than Diaz at everything. Then why did Diaz play over Wotherspoon and Culkin in the NHL? #yourownflawedlogic

Also Culkin does not skate better than Diaz.
 
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MonyontheMoney

Registered User
Apr 5, 2015
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I would definitely have to agree with 100TG here.

I certainly see Wotherspoon, Hickey and Morisson as the most likely of our prospects to be top 4D. And admittedly haven't seen much of Culkin or Kulak besides at development camp.
 

SaintMorose

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Jul 21, 2009
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With Shinkaruk beaten to death

My next big complaints would be:

Vezina trophy is given for top goaltenders not the Norris.
Poirier is a natural RW even though he shoots Left.

But the actual draft section of the article is pretty well thought out and makes some good points.
 

StevenToddIves

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May 18, 2013
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With Shinkaruk beaten to death

My next big complaints would be:

Vezina trophy is given for top goaltenders not the Norris.
Poirier is a natural RW even though he shoots Left.

But the actual draft section of the article is pretty well thought out and makes some good points.

Ah, we can beat it to death some more. I've worked 80+ hour weeks since starting research on my draft previews and have notes splayed everywhere, somehow I mixed up Shinkaruk with Klimchuk, even though it's barely a slant rhyme. It was a stupid mistake and I deserve to be slung around a bit by fans as knowledgable as the ones in Calgary.

Thanks for getting through a couple knuckle headed gaffes and getting something out of the column, though. I work my behind off in two jobs + today's slapshot to pay NYC rent and need to focus on being more precise in my edits but I also had the most accurate mock draft in North America last year so people keep wanting me to do this.

Thanks for all of your comments, even your criticisms. I appreciate it and it helps me improve my craft.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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So Wotherspoon (2 full-time AHL seasons) and Culkin (who was the biggest positive surprise) have no top 4 potential but Kulak who wasn't even an AHL regular this year and Rafikov who has yet to even make his KHL team do have top 4 potential? Yeah, okay.

Well, 4 months later Rafikov has now played in 7 KHL games and Kulak just knocked Wotherspoon down the depth chart so...
 

InfinityIggy

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Well, 4 months later Rafikov has now played in 7 KHL games and Kulak just knocked Wotherspoon down the depth chart so...

Kulak's progression is super exciting IMO. He kind of came out of nowhere (not that he was an unknown, but I don't think anyone had him making the team out of camp). Sort of like another blueliner on our team.

His skills with the puck surprised me, I didn't know he had that kind of skillset.
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
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Kulak's progression is super exciting IMO. He kind of came out of nowhere (not that he was an unknown, but I don't think anyone had him making the team out of camp). Sort of like another blueliner on our team.

His skills with the puck surprised me, I didn't know he had that kind of skillset.
it is also too soon to determine that someone is pushed down the depth chart. And sure Rafikov has 7 KHL games, but he's been a healthy scratch for 10 games and has only played 8:17 per game.
 

tmurfin

That’s the joke
May 8, 2010
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Have to say, didn't see it coming but there is a definite reason Kulak is on the team and not Wotherspoon, Hartley said it himself, TSpoon let Kulak walk in and take his spot, very impressive on Kulaks part though.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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I really don't see Wotherspoon playing for us long term, he's very solid but stands out at nothing. Morrison and Culkin excite me more than him along with Kulak. Now add Kylington and Andersson to that mix, he's no longer our prize D prospect. I fully believe he can be a steady bottom pairing dman in the NHL, that's also probably the easiest position to fill in FA or waivers and for cheap. He's absolutely the type of prospect along with Granlund (who's a center that can't win a FO), that I'd move for a positional upgrade.

Nothing wrong with that either, lots of middle tier guys suffer that fate but benefit greatly by going to a team that has more of a need for them. I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if we traded Tspoon.
 

Bouma Fett*

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May 19, 2012
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Kulak and Wotherspoon play totally different games. Kulak's is more Hartley hockey. Wotherspoon and him have different strengths and weaknesses.

Also who knows how Kulak will do after 15 games have passed? I see Kulak deservedly making the team out of camp, but could also see Wotherspoon as a call up before him later in the season.

For me I view Kulak as someone you want in your top 4 if he achieves his potential, and Wotherspoon as a guy I'd want potentially anchoring my bottom pairing.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
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Kulak and Wotherspoon play totally different games. Kulak's is more Hartley hockey. Wotherspoon and him have different strengths and weaknesses.

Also who knows how Kulak will do after 15 games have passed? I see Kulak deservedly making the team out of camp, but could also see Wotherspoon as a call up before him later in the season.

For me I view Kulak as someone you want in your top 4 if he achieves his potential, and Wotherspoon as a guy I'd want potentially anchoring my bottom pairing.

I have no doubts Tspoon will play this year, I just don't see a spot for him long term.
 

Bouma Fett*

Booty Hunter
May 19, 2012
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I have no doubts Tspoon will play this year, I just don't see a spot for him long term.

Perhaps not. But we know that he can slip into the NHL and play. Guys like Culkin and Morrison look promising, but until we know they can be at that level I am not so quick to want Wotherspoon gone. Similarly to how a guy like Jooris is undrafted and manages to make the team and play legit bottom 6 play, the good looking prospects may collapse entirely on sustained NHL player or never amount to more than a #6. Until it happens I'm not wanting to move one of our NHL readyosh prospects.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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Perhaps not. But we know that he can slip into the NHL and play. Guys like Culkin and Morrison look promising, but until we know they can be at that level I am not so quick to want Wotherspoon gone. Similarly to how a guy like Jooris is undrafted and manages to make the team and play legit bottom 6 play, the good looking prospects may collapse entirely on sustained NHL player or never amount to more than a #6. Until it happens I'm not wanting to move one of our NHL readyosh prospects.

I hear ya, but think of it like this. There's a difference between just wanting to get rid of a guy (which I don't at all), or dealing a fringe player in a package for someone you can really use.

I don't want to waive him or anything, but rather utilize a decent asset to get better.
 

Bouma Fett*

Booty Hunter
May 19, 2012
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As much as I understand Engelland role on the team is be in favor of a buyout/waive next season and giving Wotherspoon his spot in 2016-2017
 

Calculon

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Jan 20, 2006
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I'm expecting Wotherspoon to either ask for a trade and be obliged or get traded in a package at the deadline or at the draft. And I wouldn't blame him if he did ask for a trade; he's a solid defensive defensemen and could easily play in the NHL right now and not look out of place on a bottom pairing.

His playing style doesn't mesh with Hartley and generally, it's really hard for players to change their games not only quickly, but to an extent where they're still effective. Don't see Treliving letting things get to a point where they'll have to risk waivers with Wotherspoon.
 

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