To retaliate or not to retaliate? How do you handle dirty players?

[jazzykat]

This is me. I never played high level hockey and I would get severely red-arsed if someone crosschecked or slashed me.
Whenever I'd lose my cool, the perpetrator would look stunned at my response.

On the occasion that I was given the chance to speak to the guy after the game, I'd do my best to explain that I didn't play Junior and this a rec league. I don't pay $250+ to get crosschecked, slashed or body checked.
I play clean and I like the favour returned.

What high-level guys seem to forget is that rec hockey is not the NHL, or OHL or whatever piss-water junior league they used to play in where games 'mattered'.
Turn it off and have a nice skate. Not everyone wants to go to work the next day with a cast on their wrist.

IMO you and he have an obvious gap in expectations. What is the stance of the league and the level because it sounds like either they should be playing up or should be playing down? OTO if he really did play in a relatively high level of competitive hockey and you (like me) never played high level hockey then he should have no problem stripping the puck from you you ( and certainly me) cleanly and skating away with it. That would obviously make more "vigorous" play unnecessary and a bit dickish.

 

[waffledave]

This is beer league, not the ****ing NHL. If some guy takes a SERIOUS run at me I'm not retaliating, I'm pressing charges.

 

[The Tikkanen]

This is beer league, not the ****ing NHL. If some guy takes a SERIOUS run at me I'm not retaliating, I'm pressing charges.

What charge are you gonna press? The guys who demand EVERYBODY play clean hockey in a rec league should quit playing the sport. You picked the wrong game, maybe try tennis or golf instead because YOU'RE SOFT. A non checking rec league is not a NO CONTACT league, it even says in your equipment that "hockey is a contact sport". If you're not OK with contact, whether accidental or purposeful you need to sell your equipment now and move on to save yourself endless stress from an unreasonable expectation. Penalties are allowed boys, that's why they're in the book. You're allowed to slash people but if the ref sees it you have to sit in the box for a few minutes. If you're not OK with this please quit the sport cause you don't understand the game or the people who play it.

 

[BogsDiamond]

IMO you and he have an obvious gap in expectations. What is the stance of the league and the level because it sounds like either they should be playing up or should be playing down? OTO if he really did play in a relatively high level of competitive hockey and you (like me) never played high level hockey then he should have no problem stripping the puck from you you ( and certainly me) cleanly and skating away with it. That would obviously make more "vigorous" play unnecessary and a bit dickish.

I think it's a little bit of A and B.
The guys that did that kind of stuff on the regular were known for being d-bags and nobody in the league really liked him.

And concerning my skill, we ranked the players from A1, A, B, C and D.
I was a C. (D's were pretty much beginners).

So it wasn't all that difficult to take the puck away from me.
But getting slashed or hacked while having the puck didn't bother me nearly as much as getting hooked or whacked when I was 20' away from the play.
That drove me nuts.

Saying all of that, the league was a very good league skill wise, and organizationally.
It was so well run and respected that lots of people were clamoring to get in.
I was on a 2-year waiting list.
Most of the guys in the league were cool. They didn't pull shenanigans and if they did, it was usually against the top guys in the league who averaged 3-4 pts a night.

But it's that odd rat that drove me and everyone else nuts.

 

[leftwinger37]

I was cutting to the net last week and caught a slew foot; knee on knee, square on my right knee cap. I was furious because it was dirt and because I was a lot of pain. After I got back to the bench, walked it off, and collected myself, I felt calm and restored as I became focused on a single purpose: revenge.

I know the guy who did it and I don't think he meant to do it, but he was going to have to pay anyway. When I got back on the ice, I just hit everything that moved. Homeboy was ducking me and we really didn't get on the ice at the same time for the rest of the game, but I was over it by the end of the game.

He caught up with me on the way off the ice and apologized. I still wasn't happy about it, told him how dangerous that play can be, told him to keep his head up the next time we line up across from each other, and we left it at that.

My motto is "mean but clean." I'll get him next time when the opportunity arises and I think he knows that. To me that's a more effective deterrant than catching him in a vulnerable position or smashing him in the face with my stick. At that point what would I be proving other than I'm a just as dirty/dirtier player than he is?

 

[keysersoze98]

What charge are you gonna press? The guys who demand EVERYBODY play clean hockey in a rec league should quit playing the sport. You picked the wrong game, maybe try tennis or golf instead because YOU'RE SOFT. A non checking rec league is not a NO CONTACT league, it even says in your equipment that "hockey is a contact sport". If you're not OK with contact, whether accidental or purposeful you need to sell your equipment now and move on to save yourself endless stress from an unreasonable expectation. Penalties are allowed boys, that's why they're in the book. You're allowed to slash people but if the ref sees it you have to sit in the box for a few minutes. If you're not OK with this please quit the sport cause you don't understand the game or the people who play it.

So, if a guy took a run at you from behind and paralyzed you with millions in medical bills, you wouldn't press charges/sue him because penalties are allowed? Just wondering.

If a guy two hands you over the head giving you brain damage and keeping you from working for months, the same?

 

[MD56]

He caught up with me on the way off the ice and apologized. I still wasn't happy about it, told him how dangerous that play can be, told him to keep his head up the next time we line up across from each other, and we left it at that.

Unless it was intentional knee on knee and not just him being in bad position, i probably would have just let it go with an apology. You ignoring the apology and telling him there's a target on his back kind of just makes you look like the dirty player.

But, what I said goes out the window if it was intentional or he's a repeat offender.

 

[The Tikkanen]

So, if a guy took a run at you from behind and paralyzed you with millions in medical bills, you wouldn't press charges/sue him because penalties are allowed? Just wondering.

If a guy two hands you over the head giving you brain damage and keeping you from working for months, the same?

You're talking about scenarios that rarely happen in rec league sports of any kind. I've been playing for 20 years, I've never seen anybody get blown up intentionally and be crippled or have heard of any player being sued for their actions on the ice. Assault on the street is a penalty in hockey. So your argument is apples and oranges, people are complaining about contact in rec league, seeing it as an insult to their livelihood as though the other guys don't have a job to go to the next do but they do so hands off! That's just not how hockey works. There are crazy guys who play the sport, there are guys who take it very seriously, there are guys who use it as a vent for their frustrations with life. My point has always been if you expect gentlemanly behavior from EVERY hockey player in EVERY game you will hate playing hockey. There is a big difference between when you have the puck and you get a slash on the hands to disrupt your ability to stick handle and a tomahawk chop to the wrist with intent to injure but it's clear reading those who are complaining that they cannot separate the two because they are new to the sport. If you go into every game expecting contact, expecting a crazy guy and can play with your head up and not put yourself in dangerous situations the game is very fun. If you go into games thinking nobody better touch me or I'm gonna get pissed you're gonna be pissed all the time.

 

[waffledave]

What charge are you gonna press? The guys who demand EVERYBODY play clean hockey in a rec league should quit playing the sport. You picked the wrong game, maybe try tennis or golf instead because YOU'RE SOFT. A non checking rec league is not a NO CONTACT league, it even says in your equipment that "hockey is a contact sport". If you're not OK with contact, whether accidental or purposeful you need to sell your equipment now and move on to save yourself endless stress from an unreasonable expectation. Penalties are allowed boys, that's why they're in the book. You're allowed to slash people but if the ref sees it you have to sit in the box for a few minutes. If you're not OK with this please quit the sport cause you don't understand the game or the people who play it.

Talk like this sounds like fake tough guy bull **** from someone who's never actually played hockey before.

 

[keysersoze98]

You're talking about scenarios that rarely happen in rec league sports of any kind. I've been playing for 20 years, I've never seen anybody get blown up intentionally and be crippled or have heard of any player being sued for their actions on the ice. Assault on the street is a penalty in hockey. So your argument is apples and oranges, people are complaining about contact in rec league, seeing it as an insult to their livelihood as though the other guys don't have a job to go to the next do but they do so hands off! That's just not how hockey works. There are crazy guys who play the sport, there are guys who take it very seriously, there are guys who use it as a vent for their frustrations with life. My point has always been if you expect gentlemanly behavior from EVERY hockey player in EVERY game you will hate playing hockey. There is a big difference between when you have the puck and you get a slash on the hands to disrupt your ability to stick handle and a tomahawk chop to the wrist with intent to injure but it's clear reading those who are complaining that they cannot separate the two because they are new to the sport. If you go into every game expecting contact, expecting a crazy guy and can play with your head up and not put yourself in dangerous situations the game is very fun. If you go into games thinking nobody better touch me or I'm gonna get pissed you're gonna be pissed all the time.

The post you replied to said a "SERIOUS run" at him. How do you know my scenarios aren't the ones he meant? Instead you just called him SOFT and talked down to him.

 

[The Tikkanen]

The post you replied to said a "SERIOUS run" at him. How do you know my scenarios aren't the ones he meant? Instead you just called him SOFT and talked down to him.

So a guy almost hit him and he's upset? You guys are the ones that have issues with other players, if I see a crazy guy I just shrug my shoulders, it's part of the game. Believe me, there have been some characters where I knew not to mess with them cause I thought they were unsafe mentally. I think out of the 4 major sports you'll encounter the most whack jobs in hockey. So you either accept that and play the game or complain on the internet. This is a sport where a player has broken another players neck and done no jail time. A sport where a player went into the stands and beat a fan with his own shoe and did no jail time. There are a lot of hockey players on this site, does anybody know of somebody who served time or was sued for something he did in rec league play?

 

[BogsDiamond]

So a guy almost hit him and he's upset? You guys are the ones that have issues with other players, if I see a crazy guy I just shrug my shoulders, it's part of the game. Believe me, there have been some characters where I knew not to mess with them cause I thought they were unsafe mentally. I think out of the 4 major sports you'll encounter the most whack jobs in hockey. So you either accept that and play the game or complain on the internet. This is a sport where a player has broken another players neck and done no jail time. A sport where a player went into the stands and beat a fan with his own shoe and did no jail time. There are a lot of hockey players on this site, does anybody know of somebody who served time or was sued for something he did in rec league play?

I do.
Guy broke another guy's leg. Laid charges and was prosecuted. He then took him to Civil trial and got cash for his trouble.

Many of us were glad it went that way. It changed the atmosphere of the league from Roadhouse to an actual hockey game.

 

[Terry Yake]

You're talking about scenarios that rarely happen in rec league sports of any kind. I've been playing for 20 years, I've never seen anybody get blown up intentionally and be crippled or have heard of any player being sued for their actions on the ice. Assault on the street is a penalty in hockey. So your argument is apples and oranges, people are complaining about contact in rec league, seeing it as an insult to their livelihood as though the other guys don't have a job to go to the next do but they do so hands off! That's just not how hockey works. There are crazy guys who play the sport, there are guys who take it very seriously, there are guys who use it as a vent for their frustrations with life. My point has always been if you expect gentlemanly behavior from EVERY hockey player in EVERY game you will hate playing hockey. There is a big difference between when you have the puck and you get a slash on the hands to disrupt your ability to stick handle and a tomahawk chop to the wrist with intent to injure but it's clear reading those who are complaining that they cannot separate the two because they are new to the sport. If you go into every game expecting contact, expecting a crazy guy and can play with your head up and not put yourself in dangerous situations the game is very fun. If you go into games thinking nobody better touch me or I'm gonna get pissed you're gonna be pissed all the time.

sadly this is the case with so many beer leaguers these days

they can do anything they want but the second you lay a finger on them, all hell breaks loose. and it's only in the lower levels too. you rarely ever see crap like that in upper levels

 

[The Tikkanen]

sadly this is the case with so many beer leaguers these days

they can do anything they want but the second you lay a finger on them, all hell breaks loose. and it's only in the lower levels too. you rarely ever see crap like that in upper levels

I think with experience you learn what's normal and what's over the line. I got cleaned out by an older guy at pickup a few weeks back. I was sent a suicide pass through the middle of the ice breaking out of our zone, the guy made contact with me when the puck got to me, I was surprised by the contact and had my head down to see the pass and he got me. I went down, got up and kept playing. Did the guy line me up on purpose? I really don't care. I should know better than to accept a suicide pass, play with my head down and I wasn't expecting contact because it's a friendly pickup. Just part of the game in my book, nothing to get upset about, I don't need to retaliate cause I don't think it was dirty, I simply took a good hit if it was a checking league. Seems like some guys in this thread think I should have called the cops or an attorney which I find sad and my opinion is they should stop playing now cause it's gonna continue.

 

[PlayoffBeard365]

I posted this a few days ago in the Today thread. Prob should've went here given the topic. I too am super new, skating only 17 months and playing for 14 months. So I'm not always sure what is kosher and what ain't.

"Tonight I got my first dose of a D league cheap shot. We were up 2-0 with under 2mins to play in 3rd. Our D wrapped the puck around the boards in our D zone. I just hopped the boards after my teammate made a poor line change with getting off in our D zone. I was playing wing but I was nowhere near the boards to make a play or stop the puck. Puck went up the boards into the neutral zone. I was heading toward the boards but turned sharply when I knew I had no play on the puck and went to go up ice. A guy from the opposing team, who was not on top of me and was in full control, charged me from my blindside and layed his shoulder right into my head with follow through. It dazed and confused me and I was pissed cuz I was nowhere near the puck. The puck was iced. I went over and had some words with him and he just smiled then another teammate of his came over etc. I wasn't gonna fight them. Just let him know he was a ********* d bag and a D league cheap shot artist.

I stayed on the ice and tried to make a play off the faceoff and ended up unintentionally laying one of their players out who had the puck. No penalty. It was weird.

I'm all for playing chippy along the boards or in front of the net but blatant open ice head shots without the puck that's some BS. I don't know if he was just trying to get me to get a retaliation penalty or what. My teammates didn't see it cuz it was away from the play. Whatever. Rant over."

 

[leftwinger37]

Unless it was intentional knee on knee and not just him being in bad position, i probably would have just let it go with an apology. You ignoring the apology and telling him there's a target on his back kind of just makes you look like the dirty player.

But, what I said goes out the window if it was intentional or he's a repeat offender.

Nothing dirty about waiting for an opportunity to get a clean shot at a guy rather than immediately retaliate and do something stupid and/or dangerous. It's nothing personal and he should know that since I accepted the apology. The idea is that when people cross a line, unintentional or not, they have to realize that something is coming back their way. Remembering a guy's number is nothing new.

 

[Terry Yake]

I think with experience you learn what's normal and what's over the line. I got cleaned out by an older guy at pickup a few weeks back. I was sent a suicide pass through the middle of the ice breaking out of our zone, the guy made contact with me when the puck got to me, I was surprised by the contact and had my head down to see the pass and he got me. I went down, got up and kept playing. Did the guy line me up on purpose? I really don't care. I should know better than to accept a suicide pass, play with my head down and I wasn't expecting contact because it's a friendly pickup. Just part of the game in my book, nothing to get upset about, I don't need to retaliate cause I don't think it was dirty, I simply took a good hit if it was a checking league. Seems like some guys in this thread think I should have called the cops or an attorney which I find sad and my opinion is they should stop playing now cause it's gonna continue.

of course. and that's a big reason for so many guys in lower levels trying to break your arm or leg after you shove them while trying to get the puck along the boards. beer league would be no fun without the usual contact and shoving matches that are part of the game, but idiots who play the game in the way i mentioned earlier ruin it for everyone else

obviously in the scenario you mentioned there was no reason to do anything because A. it's pickup and B. it was most likely accidental as you were both going for the puck with your heads down focusing on the incoming pass.

 

[Clarkington III]

I had a rare moment tonight that probably belongs in this thread. This was my lower level of the two leagues I play in. I am one of the better players on my team and league, so I generally expect a lot to be let go in terms of penalties against me. Guys will play me harder and the better players on other team will throw the body around which I don't mind as I'm 6'2 210. I'm a calm player and usually all smiles and shin taps.

After a period and a half of constant hacks and chops, i just about lost my patience when I saw a stick go up and come down tomahawk style on the middle of my shaft. I turned and took a penalty dropping the guy with a blatant cross check knowing full well I'd get a penalty. The better players on my team that took some hacks were in full support of the penalty I took as it sort of sent a message of, please stop doing that.

Took the opportunity in between periods to have a super calm chat with the officials (kudos on their part for being willing) where I gave them my perspective and they gave me theirs. Players on the other team actually came over to start complaining and were sent away.

There certainly is a time and a place for retaliation, as well as a level of which it is done.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I was cutting to the net last week and caught a slew foot; knee on knee, square on my right knee cap. I was furious because it was dirt and because I was a lot of pain. After I got back to the bench, walked it off, and collected myself, I felt calm and restored as I became focused on a single purpose: revenge.

I know the guy who did it and I don't think he meant to do it, but he was going to have to pay anyway. When I got back on the ice, I just hit everything that moved. Homeboy was ducking me and we really didn't get on the ice at the same time for the rest of the game, but I was over it by the end of the game.

He caught up with me on the way off the ice and apologized. I still wasn't happy about it, told him how dangerous that play can be, told him to keep his head up the next time we line up across from each other, and we left it at that.

My motto is "mean but clean." I'll get him next time when the opportunity arises and I think he knows that. To me that's a more effective deterrant than catching him in a vulnerable position or smashing him in the face with my stick. At that point what would I be proving other than I'm a just as dirty/dirtier player than he is?

See, crap like this, just shows that you have no idea of what you are talking about,

You "caught" a slewfoot, and the guy hit the front of your knee?? Sounds to me like you have absolutely NO IDEA what a slewfoot is.

But let's say he did hit you knee to knee and yea, that's a ****** move, so your idea of retaliation in beer league, is to go after OTHER guys?? Really?

 

[buddhaknows]

Goldenbearhockey! Love it! If Jack Nicklaus played hockey he would've won the cup a record 18 times.

That being said a slew foot is a @#$ move in which the knee or ankle is purposefully taken out from behind. The trip causes the player to fall backwards. A knee on knee is not a slew foot. Although knee on knees are never fun it may not have been done on purpose. Amigo, don't go head hunting during a men's beer league game, my 73 year old right winger WILL take exception and drop the gloves with you if you mess with one of his mates.

 

[AD1066]

Nothing dirty about waiting for an opportunity to get a clean shot at a guy rather than immediately retaliate and do something stupid and/or dangerous. It's nothing personal and he should know that since I accepted the apology. The idea is that when people cross a line, unintentional or not, they have to realize that something is coming back their way. Remembering a guy's number is nothing new.

Sounds like you didn't accept the apology then.

 

[ATLhockey437]

When I was younger I would normally turn the other cheek and take the PP. Now I prefer to respond with as hard of a two hander as I can muster. I don't have time for that crap.

Most people would be the exact opposite. You're basically saying you were more mature as a kid than you are now.

Most guys now don't have time for the guy that can't handle a couple hacks so he responds with the hardest two hander he can muster.

 

[leftwinger37]

You "caught" a slewfoot, and the guy hit the front of your knee??

A knee on knee is not a slew foot.

I misused the the term and that was ignorant of me.

Sounds like you didn't accept the apology then.

But let's say he did hit you knee to knee and yea, that's a ****** move, so your idea of retaliation in beer league, is to go after OTHER guys?? Really?

Amigo, don't go head hunting during a men's beer league game

I know I'm not perfect and I'm not saying how I handle things is the "right" way or the "only" way. Even though I didn't articulate the scenario perfectly, I was presented with the choice "to retaliate or not to retaliate" which is why I thought I'd share. Understandably, people are going to form their own opinions about what happened, what should have happened, and come to a conclusion about me or the other guy and what our intent was or wasn't. All I can say is that it's easy to say what you would do or what you should do when you're sitting in front of a computer screen. It's a different story when you're between the lines and the adreneline is flowing. That is not a "you've never played the game!" dig, I'm just simply stating that your mind is in a different place.

The point I was trying to make was that you can retaliate within the rules. I don't have a problem with retaliation as long as you are not crossing the line and trying to hurt someone. If I stuck out my knee or got my stick up in a guy's face by accident, I would expect some type of retribution. In that context, perhaps those plays are not dirty, but they are careless. In my opinion, a careless play is almost as bad as a dirty play because, although there may be no malice or ill-intent, you still have little to no regard for the other persons safety. Furthermore, I don't find it careless or dirty as some might be implying to apply a clean bodycheck on someone as a way of showing my disapproval for the action. The idea is that if people know that there are consequences for careless play, they may be more inclined to correct their behavior. I know that line of thought is currently being phased out of the game, so perhaps I'm just a traditionalist in that sense.

 

[ccarrigan]

I misused the the term and that was ignorant of me.





I know I'm not perfect and I'm not saying how I handle things is the "right" way or the "only" way. Even though I didn't articulate the scenario perfectly, I was presented with the choice "to retaliate or not to retaliate" which is why I thought I'd share. Understandably, people are going to form their own opinions about what happened, what should have happened, and come to a conclusion about me or the other guy and what our intent was or wasn't. All I can say is that it's easy to say what you would do or what you should do when you're sitting in front of a computer screen. It's a different story when you're between the lines and the adreneline is flowing. That is not a "you've never played the game!" dig, I'm just simply stating that your mind is in a different place.

The point I was trying to make was that you can retaliate within the rules. I don't have a problem with retaliation as long as you are not crossing the line and trying to hurt someone. If I stuck out my knee or got my stick up in a guy's face by accident, I would expect some type of retribution. In that context, perhaps those plays are not dirty, but they are careless. In my opinion, a careless play is almost as bad as a dirty play because, although there may be no malice or ill-intent, you still have little to no regard for the other persons safety. Furthermore, I don't find it careless or dirty as some might be implying to apply a clean bodycheck on someone as a way of showing my disapproval for the action. The idea is that if people know that there are consequences for careless play, they may be more inclined to correct their behavior. I know that line of thought is currently being phased out of the game, so perhaps I'm just a traditionalist in that sense.

I mean, you're coming at this not only like you know the intent of the person, but exactly what happened, and retaliate based in kind. You got a knee on knee... What if your D man cross checked the guy from behind to clear the crease and that caused his knee to hit yours?

The other day I made a play in front of the net and got checked in a non checking league. During the check my stick went up and caught a guy on the chin. Should he retaliate? Even if he didn't see the check? My intent was nothing, I didn't even cause it, but maybe I should get a clean hard check?

 

[leftwinger37]

I mean, you're coming at this not only like you know the intent of the person, but exactly what happened, and retaliate based in kind. You got a knee on knee... What if your D man cross checked the guy from behind to clear the crease and that caused his knee to hit yours?

The other day I made a play in front of the net and got checked in a non checking league. During the check my stick went up and caught a guy on the chin. Should he retaliate? Even if he didn't see the check? My intent was nothing, I didn't even cause it, but maybe I should get a clean hard check?

I know the guy who did it and I don't think he meant to do it.

I didn't paint a picture of the entire scenario nor did you ask if there were extenuating circumstances that caused him to stick out his leg (for the record, there were not). I think it is fair to say that you are "coming at this not only like you know the intent of the person, but exactly what happened" and retaliating "based in kind" with your statement.

With my previous post, I was just trying to offer a rebuttal and add some clarity for my rationale. I'm not seeking anyone's approval and if you disagree with me, that's fine. We all see the game a different way and play it a differnt way; that's what keeps it interesting. If you it suits your needs to see me as some kind of meat-head then so be it.

In regard to your question about whether you should expect retaliation for getting a stick in someone's face, I think that is for the person who took the high-stick to decide. That's the point of this whole thread; "to retaliate or not to retaliate."
I guess where we disagree is that I don't place that high of a value on my interpretation of the other person's intent.