Time for Peter Laviolette

[Habs Icing]

even at le Roi d'la patate they dont do that unless they received only a resume or two.

That's a moronic statement but I don't expect anything else from you. A bank clerk will not be considered as a candidate for CEO of that bank. A secretary working at foreign affairs won't be considered as a candidate for ambassador to the USA.

And no one on this board has said that we should. That's just a red herring that has been smelling up your back pocket that you decided to throw into this conversation.

 

[Macbeth]

Look as a business man I would do exactly as Molson is doing: look at only bilingual candidates. The political climate in this province will not allow me to do anything else and hope to make an outrageous profit.

Where I think some of the posters on this site have gone wrong is they believe Molson is a hockey fan above everything else and they really believe that winning for him is priority #1 . It isn't. Making that aforementioned outrageous profit is priority #1. Anyone who believes otherwise is either naive or looking at the world through a hockey fan's eyes.

Now I am not saying that French speaking coaches are inferior to English speaking ones. What I am saying is if your top priority is to win then you look at all candidates. Some years there will be no high quality English speaking coaches. Other years there will be no high quality bilingual coaches. But you won't know that unless you interview both.

But that's not the case with Molson. He has told everyone who will listen carefully that he has made a business decision, Not a hockey decision. He will only look at bilingual candidates. I'm not in total agreement with it but it ain't my company and I can see his POV.

But for phoque sakes don't call that a hockey decision. It's a business decision. And the posters on this site who want both sort of candidates interviewed are being misled into thinking they have an owner who is motivated by hockey concerns.

It's obvious to me these ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

I find it hard to believe those who are ferociously vocal about "the language factor" can't see there's some attainable balance that doesn't hinder either side of the coin (business/on ice performance).

I would even dare say that Michel Therrien right now isn't exactly doing too bad. The team is in a rather interesting position when all things are considered. We as fans will always find something to nit pick but it's easier to harp on "the french factor" than it is about anything else; it requires absolutely no effort and it serves as a socially (at least on this forum it is) acceptable way to vent some personal issues/prejudices/whatnot.

Besides, it's not only a matter of "political climate", it's a matter of knowing who and what is your fanbase and how to provide the majority of its constituents the entertainment the business thinks it can provide for that fanbase's dollar. The Canadiens have been (mostly) exemplar in that area of their operations.

 

[ECWHSWI]

That's a moronic statement but I don't expect anything else from you. A bank clerk will not be considered as a candidate for CEO of that bank. A secretary working at foreign affairs won't be considered as a candidate for ambassador to the USA.

And no one on this board has said that we should. That's just a red herring that has been smelling up your back pocket that you decided to throw into this conversation.

we'll talk the day you have a huge pile of resume to look at and a limited time (there's always a timeframe) you can allow to the hiring process.

if that ever happen, come back and tell us that you went trough ALL the resume and that you interviewed every single one who had a decent one (look like it HAS to be specified that we're talking about decent candidates otherwise you dont get it)

 

[Habs Icing]

It's obvious to me these ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

I find it hard to believe those who are ferociously vocal about "the language factor" can't see there's some attainable balance that doesn't hinder either side of the coin (business/on ice performance).

I would even dare say that Michel Therrien right now isn't exactly doing too bad. The team is in a rather interesting position when all things are considered. We as fans will always find something to nit pick but it's easier to harp on "the french factor" than it is about anything else; it requires absolutely no effort and it serves as a socially (at least on this forum it is) acceptable way to vent some personal issues/prejudices/whatnot.

Besides, it's not only a matter of "political climate", it's a matter of knowing who and what is your fanbase and how to provide the majority of its constituents the entertainment the business thinks it can provide for that fanbase's dollar. The Canadiens have been (mostly) exemplar in that area of their operations.

I said in an earlier post that I think Therrein is doing a decent job with the players he's got. Actually, I don't think any coach in the league could improve the stats of this team.

 

[Runner77]

But that's not the case with Molson. He has told everyone who will listen carefully that he has made a business decision, Not a hockey decision. He will only look at bilingual candidates. I'm not in total agreement with it but it ain't my company and I can see his POV.

But for phoque sakes don't call that a hockey decision. It's a business decision. And the posters on this site who want both sort of candidates interviewed are being misled into thinking they have an owner who is motivated by hockey concerns.

It's a matter of catering to the market we're in. While a lot of francos say they want to win at all costs, I would venture that a sizeable number mean that they want to win with a franco coach and with franco player representation. The Cunneyworth appointment and the ensuing backlash, has all but closed the door on any consideration of an anglo coach being a candidate for a coaching job in Montreal. Réjean Tremblay, Marc DeFoy and Mario Langlois (to name a few amongst several) have made careers out of outing the Habs on their perceived lack of franco content and representation.

Marc DeFoy even took it upon himself to complain to Geoff about that unilingual "No Excuses" sign that used to be in the players' dressing room, meant for them alone. DeFoy argued that the dressing room was a workplace that was shared by journalists and should have the sign in French as well. What did Geoff do -- he obliged. He knows how quickly the most remote of linguistic complaints can snowball and threathen the Habs' image and ultimately, their bottom line.

Whether we call it a business decision, or one meant to pander to, or not upset one's clientele, it's part of parcel of the cost of doing business in Quebec. This means, Therrien is here to stay, there will never be another anglo-only coach again, there must always be a sizeable number of francos in the org. (a commitment abetted by Bergevin) and I'd venture, even the GM needs to have the ability to speak the language of the majority.

Unfortunately, using language as a must-filter, also means we'll occasionally be out of the running when some very good candidates are on the market. We'll just have to live with it and try to make up ground, in other ways. It also means that sometimes we'll strike it rich, since we may also find the franco candidate that has the better credentials and when that happens, we'll have the best of both worlds.

 

[Habs Icing]

While a lot of francos say they want to win at all costs, I would venture that a sizeable number mean that they want to win with a franco coach and with franco player representation.

You don't have to venture anything. It has already happened. Al MacNeil won a cup his first year with the team and was run out of town that very year.

 

[Runner77]

You don't have to venture anything. It has already happened. Al MacNeil won a cup his first year with the team and was run out of town that very year.

Something ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Wats]

they were just examples, no need to play silly, I know you go the point.

I don't. What is your point and why does it justify never considering John Cooper, for example, based on him not being bilingual?

My point is to include guys like Cooper into the short list and then evaluate. If the final 2 candidates are an Anglo and a Bilingual coach and it's close in skill then consider the language.

Before my post gets disregarded as 'how do you know all the best candidates just happened to be all bilingual', let's not pretend like Cooper was an unknown. He was the reigning AHL coach of the year and made finals 2 years in row winning once. This is a legitimate coaching candidate for any team with more coaching experience and coaching success than Roy and was no where to be found in the coaching search. THAT is my issue.

Right now my #1 choice is Guy Boucher (wasn't available at the time we hired MT) and #2 is Laviolette. One has experience coaching our MVP skater (Subban) along with our other top players (Pacioretty and Desharnais) along with NHL/AHL/QMJHL/WJC success. The other won championships in the NHL (reached final twice with 2 different teams), AHL, and solid record in the NHL playoffs. My #2 will never get a shot. THAT is my issue.

 

[Runner77]

Before my post gets disregarded as 'how do you know all the best candidates just happened to be all bilingual', let's not pretend like Cooper was an unknown. He was the reigning AHL coach of the year and made finals 2 years in row winning once. This is a legitimate coaching candidate for any team with more coaching experience and coaching success than Roy and was no where to be found in the coaching search. THAT is my issue.

Would any anglo-only coach seriously consider Montreal as a destination? You don't think the Cunneyworth saga made it simpler for them, to set Montreal aside? Why would an anglo-only coach even want to be considered? We're acting as if all these anglo-only coaches are ready to put up with our environment or are completely ignorant of what would await them. No one wants to be at the centre of the type of firestorm that befell Cunneyworth. Why worry about these guys, chances are they don't want to come to Montreal any more than Montreal management would even be considering them.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I don't. What is your point and why does it justify never considering John Cooper, for example, based on him not being bilingual?

My point is to include guys like Cooper into the short list and then evaluate. If the final 2 candidates are an Anglo and a Bilingual coach and it's close in skill then consider the language.

Before my post gets disregarded as 'how do you know all the best candidates just happened to be all bilingual', let's not pretend like Cooper was an unknown. He was the reigning AHL coach of the year and made finals 2 years in row winning once. This is a legitimate coaching candidate for any team with more coaching experience and coaching success than Roy and was no where to be found in the coaching search. THAT is my issue.

Right now my #1 choice is Guy Boucher (wasn't available at the time we hired MT) and #2 is Laviolette. One has experience coaching our MVP skater (Subban) along with our other top players (Pacioretty and Desharnais) along with NHL/AHL/QMJHL/WJC success. The other won championships in the NHL (reached final twice with 2 different teams), AHL, and solid record in the NHL playoffs. My #2 will never get a shot. THAT is my issue.

if he wasnt considered cause he doesnt have NHL experience (hockey related criteria), would it be any better ?

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Does "time" for Laviolette imply incarceration?

 

[Wats]

if he wasnt considered cause he doesnt have NHL experience (hockey related criteria), would it be any better ?

Wasn't Roy considered? That meant that criteria wasn't as seriously considered enough to eliminate a junior coach. Why would it eliminate a top end AHL one?

 

[ECWHSWI]

Wasn't Roy considered? That meant that criteria wasn't as seriously considered enough to eliminate a junior coach. Why would it eliminate a top end AHL one?

I'll try again, I may have not been clear enough.

Point is that whatever reason useds to make the first cuts (language in our case) will ALWAYS have you trash great resumes/candidates, and more often than not, the reason doesnt make that much sense when you think about it...

I mean, let's take your Cooper example

He wasnt looked at cause he doesnt speak french (sounds silly right ?)

but let's say one of the criteria is (all hockey related)
1. NHL experience as a coach
- Cooper doesnt get the job, but a guy like Paul Maurice or Ron Wilson has (does it really make more sense ?)
2. Basic knowledge of the environnement (scout in PQ/ONT, coached a JR team in the Q or OHL' whatever)
- again, Cooper doesnt get the job, but Maurice and Wilson have a chance, they coached a team not really far from here (again, does it make any more sense ?)
3. basic knowledge of how the NHL works (again, coaches, scouts, dir. of personnel, whetever)
- again, Cooper isnt looked at while guys like Maurice or Wilson have a chance. (logical you think ?)
4. going with people you know (hockey people obviously, in laws dont count lol)
- Cooper is still not getting an interview...

so, using all the other reasons I listed, and they're all hockey related somewhat (more than language for sure) would have Cooper or another great candidate not being looked at... and not just another great candidate, but a few of them...

so, yeah, it sounds silly to make the first cuts based on language... but no sillier (?) than lots of other reasons, but there's just too much focus put on the fact that it's language...

forget about the stupid pool size argument (I know, you're not the one who brought it up in the thread), the pool will always be small, most candidates will be eliminated from the process before even sending their resume... and the reason for the "first cuts" will be stupid at best.

every GM has a stupid reason not to look at every single (good ones, specified for you onice) candidate... ours is language, big ****ing deal eh ?

 

[waffledave]

wrong, the conversation was already language oriented in the very first post of the thread.

Show me where.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Show me where.

ok...

Not the best default guy.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...every GM has a stupid reason not to look at every single (good ones, specified for you onice) candidate... ours is language, big ****ing deal eh ?

...absolutely understand you point and it's validity; however, it is also very clearly Language Discrimination, is it not??...which makes it a big deal...

 

[SquiddFX]

...absolutely understand you point and it's validity; however, it is also very clearly Language Discrimination, is it not??...which makes it a big deal...

Not to mention you're shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[ECWHSWI]

...absolutely understand you point and it's validity; however, it is also very clearly Language Discrimination, is it not??...which makes it a big deal...

well, if we're to play the discrimination card, shouldnt we interview women coaches as well ?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

well, if we're to play the discrimination card, shouldnt we interview women coaches as well ?

...absolutely...if the best coach available is an Arabic lesbian, she should get the job...best...candidate...available...period...

 

[ECWHSWI]

Not to mention you're shooting yourself in the foot.

more than if it's other criterias ? nope...

 

[ECWHSWI]

...absolutely...if the best coach available is a Arabic lesbian, she should get the job...best...candidate...available...period...

try to tone down the great in theory stuff, look at how the real world works

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

more than if it's other criterias ? nope...

...that's the point, amigo; language should never be a criteria..nor should sex...or sexual orientation...said criteria should be conductive to finding the best candidate available for the job of coaching your NHL franchise...

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

try to tone down the great in theory stuff, look at how the real world works

...the real world should work in this way...and the only way it's going to is if we make it work right...gotta start somewhere...

 

[ECWHSWI]

...the real world should work in this way...and the only way it's going to is if we make it work right...gotta start somewhere...

how it should work and how it DOES work isnt the same...

you or anyone else complaining about it on a hockey board will not make it change.

besides, I'm pretty sure there's much better battle grounds than coach of a hockey team for those fights.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

how it should work and how it DOES work isnt the same...

you or anyone else complaining about it on a hockey board will not make it change.

besides, I'm pretty sure there's much better battle grounds than coach of a hockey team for those fights.

...so are you OK with the Montreal Canadiens promoting Language Discrimination??...simple question, yes or no...