Time For Former Oilers To Speak Up?

[rboomercat90]

It may well be an indication to MacT's inability to take responsibility for his own poor judgement.

I think Replacement has a pretty good explanation for this.

 

[guymez]

I think Replacement has a pretty good explanation for this.

Cant see his posts. I was fatigued enough with his circular posting style that I put him on ignore and now that I have taken him off ignore I still cant see his posts.

Might be for the better though.

Edit: I saw the post you quoted above. Doesnt sound unreasonable to me.

 

[Dorian2]

The Reason MacT doesn't sell out Eakins is due to MacT's quote "I will live or die with the Eakins hire" In MacT's distorted universe by continuing to state stubbornly, and against all evidence that he still thinks Eakins is a good coach and none of this is due to him, MacT is really actually defending himself and his decision.

Like I said he should be getting called out on that. "You're only supporting Eakins because you hitched your own trailer to him. " I'd love it if some media wag fed up of this scene nails him with that in a presser.

Well said Replacement. The thing that I really don't get about MacT is that he has made mistakes in the past that he owned, and we ain't talking no miniscule thing (in the scope of life in general), like a bad coaching hire decision.

I have to question his motivation for doing some of the things he is doing.

Maybe he's scared of something. That doesn't sound like the MacT I've liked since Sather brought him on board from Boston.

 

[Whiston532]

The problem is that it's impossible to talk negatively about the oilers without throwing Lowe, Mac-T and the rest under the bus and running over them repitedly. And considering how close I'm assuming those guys are from their playing days that I imagine they're probably still pretty good friends.

Essentially we're asking people to talk **** and publicly embarrass their friends. I'm all for criticizing management and getting any help we can. But realistically this probably won't happen.

 

[rboomercat90]

Cant see his posts. I was fatigued enough with his circular posting style that I put him on ignore and now that I have taken him off ignore I still cant see his posts.

Might be for the better though.

Edit: I saw the post you quoted above. Doesnt sound unreasonable to me.

He's basically saying that Mactavish keeps pumping Eakins tires because he said that he'd be judged on that hire when he fired Kruger. By continuing to defend him he's actually defending himself.

 

[guymez]

He's basically saying that Mactavish keeps pumping Eakins tires because he said that he'd be judged on that hire when he fired Kruger. By continuing to defend him he's actually defending himself.

Yup...I get that.

As I was attempting to suggest...this is about MacT's limitations.

 

[Fourier]

Good find...very refreshing. Shows a level of honesty that MacT clearly isnt capable of.

Would you agree that this is the exception and not the norm?

It is definitely the exception. But it should be the norm. The problem is that it is often hard to say these kinds of things and is especially hard if you are not also willing to admit your own part in the problem.

There are times when guys get fired because it is easier to try and change the coach then all the players. Trotz was an example of a guy who had simply run his course in Nashville and a new direction was needed. But it would be hard to throw him under the bus because what he had done was to take an under funded and often out manned team and lift them beyond where they should have possibly been year in and year out. When you part company with a guy like that you need to do it in as respectful a manner as possible.

The Eakins situation was different. Even if one might think that there were extenuating circumstances, the record was simply indefensible. By trying to suggest that it was just circumstance and that he really did a great job all MacT does is to shine more light on the issue. As a result it just keeps coming back.

MacT showed the way he played that he has a degree of courage. Much more so, I really admire the way he turned his life around and the relationship he built with the parents of the individual that was killed in the tragic accident. This shows that he is/was capable of dealing with incredibly difficult situations beyond which most of us never hope to experience. What bothers me so much is that in comparison, what we want from him right now is trivial.Admit that you made a huge mistake and acknowledge the consequences. That should be an absolute minimum to ask for from anyone in a leadership role.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Stauffer said 2 years ago that Lowe offered to Katz, to step away from the organization and Katz said no.

Pharmacy boy is the root of the problems here.

Cal Nichols wasn't a genius either but I doubt he and the EIG would stand around and watch this garbage happen.

Katz is clearly the issue. Remember when people had enough of MacT as coach? Katz came out of the shadows and said "he isn't going anywhere!". The biggest issue that I see is that Katz railroaded the new arena so that now no one has any pull and he can run this team right into the gutter with no recourse. Imagine Katz pulling the Seattle horse **** right now..... He knew that the team was going to continue to be **** and he knew that the only way that he could keep total control was by railroading the arena through with his terms.

The sad reality is that Katz has already got his dream project and he'll continue making bank on it regardless of the Oilers on ice record. Nothing short of businesses deciding not to deal with him due to the way that he's handled the Oilers will make him think twice about relieving MacT and Lowe.

Sadly the only possible ways to be rid of them is basically for things to turn ugly for MacT and Lowe where they can't be seen in public due to incessant mocking and they decide that it's not worth the money to deal with the BS. I do not advocate that at all and think that it would be sad and a black eye for the City of Edmonton if that happened.

People stop renewing season tickets. It'd be a pretty big hit to Katz' ego if his masterpiece built by taxpayer money is only half full and his corporate endorsements and the property value around the arena takes a significant hit. It may take 2-3 seasons for Katz to bend on this, but it would be pretty damn funny if it got to the point of him losing $50+ million a year in spite of the sweetheart arena deal due to his unwavering and unwarranted support of Lowe and MacT. It sure seems clear that Katz has everything that he's ever wanted and he doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks about him unless it hurts his pocket book.

MacT and Lowe are perfect peas in a pod in this regard. Aren't we the lucky ones?




Both take this stubbornness to new levels in pressers. Its so obviously a large part of them only to see the world their way. Could you imagine either of them as posters here?

I'd have fun banning their *****!

 

[BlowbyBlow]

He's basically saying that Mactavish keeps pumping Eakins tires because he said that he'd be judged on that hire when he fired Kruger. By continuing to defend him he's actually defending himself.

Its a double edged sword.

If he admits its a mistake he seems like a guy who makes bad/spontaneous judgement calls/ without due diligence or thorough assessing. People interviewed Eakins like Gillis in Van said he wasn't ready.

On the other side he defends himself and comes off as arrogant, self aggrandizing, dismissive of fans, and not repenting for his wrong doing

Its hard for a seasoned G.M. to say i made a mistake are you going to hear Charelli say i made a mistake trading Seguin...a new G.M. is not going to. it sucks for him that Nelson was such a positive influence on the team.

This is what you get when you hire inexperienced people in management in any business.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

Katz is clearly the issue. Remember when people had enough of MacT as coach? Katz came out of the shadows and said "he isn't going anywhere!". The biggest issue that I see is that Katz railroaded the new arena so that now no one has any pull and he can run this team right into the gutter with no recourse. Imagine Katz pulling the Seattle horse **** right now..... He knew that the team was going to continue to be **** and he knew that the only way that he could keep total control was by railroading the arena through with his terms.

The sad reality is that Katz has already got his dream project and he'll continue making bank on it regardless of the Oilers on ice record. Nothing short of businesses deciding not to deal with him due to the way that he's handled the Oilers will make him think twice about relieving MacT and Lowe.

Sadly the only possible ways to be rid of them is basically for things to turn ugly for MacT and Lowe where they can't be seen in public due to incessant mocking and they decide that it's not worth the money to deal with the BS. I do not advocate that at all and think that it would be sad and a black eye for the City of Edmonton if that happened.

People stop renewing season tickets. It'd be a pretty big hit to Katz' ego if his masterpiece built by taxpayer money is only half full and his corporate endorsements and the property value around the arena takes a significant hit. It may take 2-3 seasons for Katz to bend on this, but it would be pretty damn funny if it got to the point of him losing $50+ million a year in spite of the sweetheart arena deal due to his unwavering and unwarranted support of Lowe and MacT. It sure seems clear that Katz has everything that he's ever wanted and he doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks about him unless it hurts his pocket book.



I'd have fun banning their *****!

Your so right with this post. As a former season ticket holder really what has to happen is two things.

A decline of the brand name.
One former Oilers not wanting to be associated with the team, jersey sales down, less season tickets, combination of where your like the Cleveland Browns your value is so low - (though getting a Mcdavid could change that)

A team no one wants to play/work for
There are lesser Oiler names like Lumley who takes shots at the team. Right now you have the last lineage of the OBC time will pass on and your kids or grandkids won't know these guys - years of losing will create a broken connection to the past/history
You will get a team (what we sort of have now where you have to pay more for free agents) now you may be worried about players like a Mcdavid not wanting there value to go down and not want to play for the team. Or a great coach not wanting to coach to ruin his resume.

 

[Bill Waters*]

They have and are always vilified by the fans imo

Souray, Laraque, Comrie, Whitney, Belov, NSchultz; even agents Winter, Gillic; and other GM's Burke, and Lombardi.

Just off the top of my head from the last decade, and there's surely more.

That is highly unusual in any industry. You will always find disgruntled employee's but the agents and other managers is crazy

Add smid, and Petry too, as well as Trotz' comment

Add Shayne Corson to that list.

 

[guymez]

It is definitely the exception. But it should be the norm. The problem is that it is often hard to say these kinds of things and is especially hard if you are not also willing to admit your own part in the problem.

I agree...it should be the norm. The unfortunate reality is that public relations and saving face matter more than anything else in most of these situations.

There are times when guys get fired because it is easier to try and change the coach then all the players. Trotz was an example of a guy who had simply run his course in Nashville and a new direction was needed. But it would be hard to throw him under the bus because what he had done was to take an under funded and often out manned team and lift them beyond where they should have possibly been year in and year out. When you part company with a guy like that you need to do it in as respectful a manner as possible.

Long standing employees never get thrown under the bus because it wouldn't really make sense. How could Management justify doing that to someone they employed for many years?
Sometimes its just time to move on...I think thats clearly the case with Trotz.

The Eakins situation was different. Even if one might think that there were extenuating circumstances, the record was simply indefensible. By trying to suggest that it was just circumstance and that he really did a great job all MacT does is to shine more light on the issue. As a result it just keeps coming back.

What might really make the Eakins situation so difficult for Mact is the circumstances that surrounded the hire in the first place. When you fire a coach (Kruger) for no good reason and put all your eggs in the basket of the new coach like MacT did with Eakins how do you then come back (a year and a half later) and say he wasnt the right fit? No way you can present it like that as it would destroy what little credibility you may have had. MacT bet everything on Eakins and failed...after the events that preceded the Eakins hiring the optics of admitting you were wrong is akin to falling on your sword.
Admitting that Eakins was a mistake is a fatal error.
MacT is in survival mode IMO...he has to do anything he can to buy time. His career is on the line because if he cant buy some time to turn this around there is no way Katz can protect him from the court of public opinion.
Unlike Lowe (who is shielded by an obscured hierarchy) MacT is on the end of the pier.

MacT showed the way he played that he has a degree of courage. Much more so, I really admire the way he turned his life around and the relationship he built with the parents of the individual that was killed in the tragic accident. This shows that he is/was capable of dealing with incredibly difficult situations beyond which most of us never hope to experience. What bothers me so much is that in comparison, what we want from him right now is trivial.Admit that you made a huge mistake and acknowledge the consequences. That should be an absolute minimum to ask for from anyone in a leadership role.

This is true in the context of those previous situations but this situation is a different kettle of fish for reasons I stated above.

The comparison with the challenges of the past (while they are clearly much more important) are different because in that context admitting you made a mistake and taking ownership lends to your credibility as a compassionate and contrite human being.

That application in this situation wont contribute to the same conclusion.

 

[Captain Catatomic]

One time I had a very candid conversation with Georges Laraque at a special event party. Nice guy and he had nothing but negative things to say about the Oilers organization ran by Kevin Lowe.

I always felt that Laraque is a community first guy and was willing to accept less pay to stay with the Oilers in 2006 but apparently Lowe and Laraque didn't see eye to eye.

Take it for what it is but Laraque said Lowe is stuck in his ways. It should speak volumes for what this organization is as a whole. "stuck in its ways"...no wonder the oilers haven't made the playoffs for the past decade.

Voodoo is real

 

[Up the Irons]

Haha.... Not following the conspiracy logic here. Why would a business man with hundreds of millions to his name be worried about a snowstorm in the eighties?

It's not like he was a politician who may be judged by commoners.... You think his cadre of high net worth business pals would be I) shocked or ii) care?

no. wasn't being totally serious.

 

[Tarus]

Add Shayne Corson to that list.

Lets not. He was out of the organization 5 years before anyone currently involved with running the franchise took over.

Completely different ownership, GM, and coach.

 

[Up the Irons]

Stauffer said 2 years ago that Lowe offered to Katz, to step away from the organization and Katz said no.

Pharmacy boy is the root of the problems here.

Cal Nichols wasn't a genius either but I doubt he and the EIG would stand around and watch this garbage happen.

i thought he offered to go on sabbatical (code for: lay low till the smoke clears), and Katz said no (code for: you're not going anywhere till you clean up your mess).

I give props to Katz if that's what really happen (and i strongly suspect that is precisely how it all went down). I don't believe for a second Lowe would quit on his own, because if he had any honour, he'd have quit a year ago, after the billboard incident.


I mean, really, who asks a boss if they can quit? just quit, already!!!

 

[Up the Irons]

"We fired him because he did not get the job done that he was paid to do"....Full stop.

That is a professional response and is very different from saying that you still think he did a great job developing the team but the timing was just not right.

The way MacT gets agitated when speaking about Eakins really seems to suggest that he feels it was the right move. I am 100% convinced that he would be ok putting Eakins back in the head coaches slot if there was any possible way to make that happen without riots breaking out.

I've wondered for awhile if Mact and the players got into a pissing match over Eakins, and the players eventually won the day. They, effectively, fired Eakins. We heard Mact say during the summer: "Dallas isn't going anywhere'. We heard rumours of management thinking the players had become complacent and cocky as they saw every coach go out the door. He said things along the lines of: 'its up to these players to get on board' (paraphrasing). Ramsey said on Oilers now, that Eakins was giving the same message as Nelson, it's just the players didn't do it under Eakins and did under Nelson.

Ultimately, Mact's boy was a little Nepolean that rubbed everyone wrong from day one (no ping pong?!?!?) and the GM lost the battle with players. He also wasted 2 seasons in the process, when everyone could see as early as game 20 of the 2013/14 season that the Eakins experiment was going to end exactly the way it did.

 

[Captain Catatomic]

I've wondered for awhile if Mact and the players got into a pissing match over Eakins, and the players eventually won the day. They, effectively, fired Eakins. We heard Mact say during the summer: "Dallas isn't going anywhere'. We heard rumours of management thinking the players had become complacent and cocky as they saw every coach go out the door. He said things along the lines of: 'its up to these players to get on board' (paraphrasing). Ramsey said on Oilers now, that Eakins was giving the same message as Nelson, it's just the players didn't do it under Eakins and did under Nelson.

Ultimately, Mact's boy was a little Nepolean that rubbed everyone wrong from day one (no ping pong?!?!?) and the GM lost the battle with players. He also wasted 2 seasons in the process, when everyone could see as early as game 20 of the 2013/14 season that the Eakins experiment was going to end exactly the way it did.

Does anyone think that maybe Eberle's gap is the problem? Like maybe it has some evil voodoo effect on the goalies 5-holes.

 

[Bangers]

Haha.... Not following the conspiracy logic here. Why would a business man with hundreds of millions to his name be worried about a snowstorm in the eighties?

It's not like he was a politician who may be judged by commoners.... You think his cadre of high net worth business pals would be I) shocked or ii) care?

Probably not the greatest PR to have the owner of a chain of pharmacies engaged in the use of illicit narcotics.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I've wondered for awhile if Mact and the players got into a pissing match over Eakins, and the players eventually won the day. They, effectively, fired Eakins. We heard Mact say during the summer: "Dallas isn't going anywhere'. We heard rumours of management thinking the players had become complacent and cocky as they saw every coach go out the door. He said things along the lines of: 'its up to these players to get on board' (paraphrasing). Ramsey said on Oilers now, that Eakins was giving the same message as Nelson, it's just the players didn't do it under Eakins and did under Nelson.

Ultimately, Mact's boy was a little Nepolean that rubbed everyone wrong from day one (no ping pong?!?!?) and the GM lost the battle with players. He also wasted 2 seasons in the process, when everyone could see as early as game 20 of the 2013/14 season that the Eakins experiment was going to end exactly the way it did.

Kevin put his foot down. The end.

 

[Alberta]

I'm worried that the reason MacT defends Eakins so much and brings him up every chance he gets is because he wants to put him back in as head coach.

Two years left on his deal, and if MacT truly believes that Derek Roy is the reason that Nelson had so much success, I fear what he might be thinking.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I'm worried that the reason MacT defends Eakins so much and brings him up every chance he gets is because he wants to put him back in as head coach.

Two years left on his deal, and if MacT truly believes that Derek Roy is the reason that Nelson had so much success, I fear what he might be thinking.

I hope he does. It might be what is needed to get the penny to drop for those who still think he "needs more time".

I doubt Kevin would allow it. How sad is it when Kevin Lowe is the voice of reason?

Very, very sad people.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'm worried that the reason MacT defends Eakins so much and brings him up every chance he gets is because he wants to put him back in as head coach.

Two years left on his deal, and if MacT truly believes that Derek Roy is the reason that Nelson had so much success, I fear what he might be thinking.

If he does that.....

1) No way in hell does Nelson stick around and rightfully so. He'd get passed up for the wrong guy TWICE!

2) How does he keep his job if Eakins falls flat on his face again (which I'm sure that he will)? Why does he still have his job while we're on the subject?! It doesn't take 5-10 years to realize that someone is doing a poor job.

3) How could Lowe and Nicholson allow this type of dumb****ery?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I hope he does. It might be what is needed to get the penny to drop for those who still think he "needs more time".

I doubt Kevin would allow it. How sad is it when Kevin Lowe is the voice of reason?

Very, very sad people.

Agreed, Lowe and especially Nicholson likely wouldn't allow it. I get the feeling that MacT's hand was forced when it cam to ditching Eakins, so clearly someone with more clout than he has had to have made that call. There's been nothing that has transpired since then for anyone to second guess that decision IMO.

 

[OilTastic]

They have and are always vilified by the fans imo

Souray, Laraque, Comrie, Whitney, Belov, NSchultz; even agents Winter, Gillic; and other GM's Burke, and Lombardi.

Just off the top of my head from the last decade, and there's surely more.

That is highly unusual in any industry. You will always find disgruntled employee's but the agents and other managers is crazy

Add smid, and Petry too, as well as Trotz' comment

and Ron Hextall and his comments about some other team's 'endless rebuild'....clearly a shot at the Oilers. funny how Hexi had the stones to fire his ex-teammate from the 80's in Craig Berube, but doesn't have the stones to fire a freeloader like Buchberger. i doubt Kevin Lowe has the stones to let MacT go down the road.