Tihkhonov

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McThome

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Aug 12, 2003
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:help:
So somebody give me the scoop on him.... Do ALL his players hate him? Do they not like playing for him but are willing to because they know he'll make them better? Is he like Russians Keenan? I know he's supposed to be a very extreme type - but he has won. If nobody likes playing for him why did he keep getting coaching jobs? So somebody who knows more about him please explain!
 

thrill_me_mogilny

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I think those from Russia/USSR can give a more detailed answer, but here goes. Tikhonov was a military man who figured that if you ran a hockey team like boot camp, you would win many games. Correct. He kept getting coaching jobs because his method worked; get the teenage boys from their families, make them sign up for officership in the Red Army, have complete control over their lives and careers; it would be very hard indeed to lose many games when your players were as some called them "ice robots." Everything from the amount of food they ate to who got apartments and who got to shop in the West on road trips was strictly controlled. Some players ratted out to Tikhonov on others, and this caused great animosity.

I suggest reading "The Red Machine" by Lawrence Martin for a good insight.
 

McThome

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ya, I kinda knew all that kinda stuff... more of the what the fans/players/management thought of him. I've seen a few docs on the whole thing - but never really much about him except from guys like larionov/Fetisov...... what about some of the younger guys anywhere from Federov/Bure/Mogilny's age to Zherdevs age...... I'd really like to hear what they have to say.
 

thrill_me_mogilny

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Mogilny had a great quote "Nobody likes him except his wife and dog, and even that I cannot understand how." That was from around 1993.

A few years ago he softened up a bit by saying: "I now understand why he did what he had to do."
 

Evgeny Oliker

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basically, the guy is a dictator. regardless of what the young guys might think of him...i dont think any of them would enjoy playing under a dictator...the years of kings and communist dictators have gone by long ago
 

HF2002

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I know that some of the younger players respected him because he was glorified in the Soviet "media" to Russian hockey fans. I remember Yashin saying at one point that he would love to play for the great Tikhonov because of all his success and knowledge of hockey. I guess they'd probably be part of the same clique.....

I had also heard that Tikhonov may have been a taskmasker but he went further than that because he could. For instance, he used to threaten players who played poorly with jail time in Siberia and he even went so far as to tell them that if they didn't perform on the ice their family members would be sent with them.
 

wilka91*

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May 5, 2004
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I remember when Fedorov made a little mistake and Tikhonov told him "son of a ... "
 

thrill_me_mogilny

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If you have a good library system, check if they have it. The big online places carry it.

The younger players never had to play for Tikhonov as "soldiers" fighting for the sporting glory of Mother Russia. Yes, it does sound a bit corny these days, but make no mistake that's what it was.

Fetisov and Mogilny were among players who had the highest respect from other players because they refused to worship Tikhonov. I'll have to dig through my clippings, but I vaguely recall Mogilny making a comment to the effect of jail in Siberia would be closer to home and he'd be able to see his family more.
 

MOGiLNY

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Tikhonov never kept getting coaching jobs.

He got the job with CSKA Moscow in the late 70's/early 80's and that was it. He stayed with the team until this year.

The only reason why he got a job with team Russia now, is because there were no other coaches who were willing to do it.
 

Sotnos

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Not sure if I'm thinking of the right book or not (someone who has it handy can hopefully check for me), but I think in the book Home Game by Ken Dryden, there is a chapter about "Soviet" players, and it discusses one player's fight against the system (I think it's Larionov) and it talks about Tikhonov quite a bit and has some of the better known anecdotes about him. Sorry, I know that's REALLY vague. :)

Not about Tikhonov, but an interesting and easy read about the latter days of the Soviet hockey system is From Behind the Red Line: A North American Hockey Player in Russia.

Thanks for the recommendation of The Red Machine, I've been looking for a good book about the old Soviet hockey system for a while.
 

Macman

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May 15, 2004
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All you need to know about Tikhonov and how he treated his players came after Lemieux's game winner in the '87 Canada Cup. Tikhonov chewed the crap out of the poor defenceman who was the lone guy back during the fatal two-on-one. It might have been Stelnov, I can't remember, but it was one of their younger inexperienced guys and he didn't play the two-on-one very well. Anyway, he goes back to the bench and Tikhonov just tears a strip off of him. Never mind the fact it was Tikhonov who screwed up by not putting out Fetisov in the final minute when Canada had Gretzky, Lemieux and Hawerchuk out there.
 

TORRUS

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May 31, 2004
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wilka91 said:
I remember when Fedorov made a little mistake and Tikhonov told him "son of a ... "

Yeah, but that was not all! I remember reading somewhere that he punched Mogilny in his throat after making a mistake!
 

thrill_me_mogilny

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After playing a crappy shift at the 1988 Olympics, Tikhonov punched Mogilny in the stomach. Even the assistant coaches were stunned.
 

eh

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One book which is worth the read is Igor Larionov's autobiography (the English title is "Larionov" and apparently it's very hard to find). I think that the open letter Larionov wrote to Tihonov in 1988, published in the weekly magazine Ogonyok pretty much sums up "the scoop on Tihonov". I found an online copy of the book here. This is from the eigth chapter:

My open letter began this way:

"Dear respected Viktor Vasilevich!

"For the last six years, from that very day of our particularly personal, intimate discussion (when) you made it known at the general meeting of the team that you blamed me for a 'weak game,' we have been in no way successful in speaking with you sincerely. Such a situation did not present itself although we worked together..."


There is no sense to bring in more excerpts from the letter. Several concerned the myth surrounding Tikhonov and the methods he mercilessly used to support his formula that "for the achievement of goals, all means are good."

I began with the business of inviting players from allover the country, and the manner in which the talented ones were transformed into instant military officers, and recalled the manner in which I unexpectedly became a lieutentant. I outlined the way the players' sports fate and their futures were controlled, and the way in which they were kept from their families, all with the aim of placing them under the absolute control of the senior coach.

"So you, Viktor Vasilevich, have become transformed in the last years into this hockey monarch: you punish who you want, you pardon who you want! How you accosted Sasha Mogilny, the very youngest playel; when he did not wish to become an officer in the Red Army. An old Cossack method: having scared him, you did not take him to the exhibition game in Japan. And they pondered, what is wrong with you. And Sasha obediently wrote the report (joined the army)"

I am not a prophet. I did not imagine the dramatic turning point in the fate of Alexander Mogilny - that within six months of this publication he would defect to join the NHL Buffalo Sabres. I do not think the article and Mogilny's understanding of it were an essential point in influencing his action. The surroundings, the situation on the team, the insidious appointment to officer's rank, which amounted to enslaving the player - all these things and his own character combined to push him to the decision to leave. I could not avoid bringing out those things which continually annoyed me.

"For 10 months of the year we were forced to be separated from home: endless trips, games, and if not games then training camps. A harsh regime. Listing what was allowed us was easy: There was a lot that we could do. They nursed us wonderfully well. We could play chess or cards, and we could sleep. All else that remained for us to do was to train. After the game we were on the bus. Our wives and kiddies waved us "goodbye." They are going home, thanks to you, Viktor Vasilevich! (It's amazing) how our wives could give birth to our children (considering the training schedule). These normal, mutual relationship between a hockey player and his wife, do not have a part in your program."

In reality this system of the National team was accepted in all clubs. The problem itself had a common sound. But in the CSRA, thanks to the army subordination and the character of the senior coach, all was taken to a higher, utterly unacceptable level. I add here to the emotional perception of the game. Mood, the outer composition of the player and the team as a whole, all determine the outcome of the battle. And those training camps drove a weird anxiety into everyone.

"The athlete's life in Soviet hockey is short. On the eve of a series of championships, the composition of the National team is announced in the newspapers and fans write letters. 'Where are our famous stars?' they ask. :4re they really trying so hopelessly that they can not even go out onto the ice?' Why did Vladislav Tretiak, the most popular Soviet hockey player in the world, leave the game at 32? The answer is simple. They would not allow Tretiak, even in view of his exceptionalness, to prepare for the games on his own, at home."

In the structure of Soviet sport only Goskomsport of the USSR and the directors of the administration of soccer and hockey of Kolosky are higher than the CSRA and Tikhonov. Here you would expect recognition of the Tikhonov-esque methods, the senselessness and humiliation of the plan as it was used by the senior coach. But no.

"So, from year to year you trained people as if they were pawns in your hands. You must think that in Goskomsport they also do not rack their brains very much about the psychological preparation of sportsmen. Here, Viktor Vasilevich, you use influence and immense respect: From time to time you give Goskomsport results. 'He won the latest World Championship! Thank you, comrade Tikhonov, for your work!'"

Then came the lines that appeared in the opening of this book, the exposure of the injections and drug test cheating that were the article's knockout punch in the eyes of the foreign press.Who considers this a loss? And who will answer for it?
Two other quotes from the article require no commentary:

"...life itself shows and proves that your training style, which probably gave positive results in the past, covered the shortcomings, stopped to justify itself, bursting at the seams (like) the very administration team system placed in this country. Already you will not be able to hide from anyone,' it is seen by everyone - even by Goskomsport, which still silently waited it out because we were still involved at a tournament - that you made mistake after mistake."

And:

"The last years we won on account of good physical conditioning. But, today, other teams of the world go out onto the ice showing endurance, able to maintain a high tempo of the game that was imposed on them. In a word, you can no longer impress anyone with biceps alone."

My open letter closed this way:

"The country is learning to think in a new way, It is high time to take this upon yourself, sportsmen!"

Punching Mogilny to the stomach after a heated discussion during a game is also documented in the book, as are other terrible things he did and said. His teams won everything there is to win in international hockey, but the cost of all that...
 

Leo Naphta

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Macman said:
All you need to know about Tikhonov and how he treated his players came after Lemieux's game winner in the '87 Canada Cup. Tikhonov chewed the crap out of the poor defenceman who was the lone guy back during the fatal two-on-one. It might have been Stelnov, I can't remember, but it was one of their younger inexperienced guys and he didn't play the two-on-one very well. Anyway, he goes back to the bench and Tikhonov just tears a strip off of him. Never mind the fact it was Tikhonov who screwed up by not putting out Fetisov in the final minute when Canada had Gretzky, Lemieux and Hawerchuk out there.

Actually, I think it was Igor Kravchuk.
 

Macman

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May 15, 2004
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Leo Naphta said:
Actually, I think it was Igor Kravchuk.

You're absolutely correct. I only said Stelnov because the player was No. 4 and I have an old program from the '87 cup that lists him as Stelnov, but I didn't think it was right. The Soviet's were always screwing around with numbers. Now that you mention Kravchuk, I remember hearing that somewhere else. Thanks.
 

Sotnos

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russianrocket24 said:
You can check out my page for all necessary information about CCCP Hockey and Tikhonov. On the Links Page you will find some related books with their ISBN No.
www.russianrocket.de
Thanks for the link, I looked at your page a long time ago and enjoyed reading all of it. :)

Just as a follow up to what I mentioned before, I double checked, and Chapter 5 of Home Game by Ken Dryden is indeed about the Summit Series and includes info about the history of the Red Army team as well as about Larionov and his letter which someone else mentioned here. Not the best history and it was published in 1989, but a very easy book to get ahold of.
 
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