Post-Game Talk: thread to discuss whatever the **** we just watched

[avssuc]

Boston Bruins. And they are still rolling that way.

Well, not you, but here is one of my replies to this fodder:

1) THe Bruins didn't tank to win, and don't think they had hardly any high draft pcks on the 2011 team except Seguin, who never hit his stride in Boston anyhow.


2) Perhaps the most depressing thing is however, is I don't think the Wings are in a position to tank well.

1) Define "high picks". I know your qualifying remark was "on the team", but you can't simply ignore trades from the recent past. Part of the package that came back for Sampsonov was a 2nd round pick used to get Lucic. Sampsonov himself was taken with a pick acquired from Carolina years prior.

Going deeper, Thornton (former #1 overall) returned Brad Stuart (former #3 overall pick), Wayne Primeau (former 17th overall), and Marco Strum (former 21st overall). Stuart was a UFA to be in 2007, so instead of potentially crippling the team with his demand Boston (Chiarelli, now with Edmonton) packaged him with Primeau for Andrew Ference and Chuck Kobasew. Ference was credited with shifting momentum in the 2011 Final; Kobasew was flipped in 2011 for 2nd and 4th round picks. Strum was a perennial 20 goal scorer prior to the trade and continued for several years in Boston before an injury cut his career short in 2010. Kessel (former #5 overall) was flipped for the second picks of rounds 1 & 2 in 2010, and the 9th overall in 2011.

All of the early salary management permitted Boston to snag a Norris trophy caliber UFA in 2006. So essentially, you might be correct with what you said, but the formula underneath your comment is something that's totally foreign to Holland and Wings brass. They have reached the total opposite end of this spectrum, capped by the most recent bloody July 1st that may go down in infamy.


In terms of picks, here are the 14 years prior to the cup, and the cup draft. Let's just say that any team in the lottery that has 5% or greater chance of winning is good placement (that's the single digit picks). Just how many did Boston have in this period? A total of 7, just under 50% of which came from aggressive trading.

1 9 2011 (FROM TOR) DOUGIE HAMILTON
1 2 2010 (FROM TOR) TYLER SEGUIN
1 25 2009 JORDAN CARON
1 16 2008 JOE COLBORNE
1 8 2007 ZACH HAMILL
1 5 2006 PHIL KESSEL
1 22 2005 MATT LASHOFF
1 21 2003 (FROM TOR)MARK STUART
1 29 2002 HANNU TOIVONEN
1 19 2001 (FROM EDM)SHAONE MORRISONN
1 7 2000 LARS JONSSON
1 27 2000 (FROM NJD) MARTIN SAMUELSSON L
1 21 1999 NICK BOYNTON
1 1 1997 JOE THORNTON
1 8 1997 SERGEI SAMSONOV


2) So yea, you touch on the fact that the Wings may not be able to tank well. Problem is, they aren't in position to build like Boston did either. As I mentioned earlier, your suggestion is nullified by reality. The Datsyuk trade (what apologists use as proof positive that Holland is a genius) may have been the worst thing to happen to this franchise in decades. It let Holland go hog wild in FA when they needed the exact opposite, and 'may have' gifted a blue-chip defender in the process. I'm not trying to be Chicken Little, but there isn't much to be optimistic about 2 games in. The season is very young though, so it's way too early to write this years team off. However, using history, advanced analytics, and common sense... it's fairly easy to write them off in 2017 and years to come after.

THe Bruins didn't tank to win, and don't think they had hardly any high draft pcks on the 2011 team except Seguin, who never hit his stride in Boston anyhow.

I also agree with Claypool that the league is changing.

The Edmonton Oilers will likely be a cap team in another year or two (They currently only have $4 million in cap space).

Not that he still has more GM magic, but Pete Chiarelli guided Boston into their cap era cup runs, got canned, and was hired by Edmonton a month later. He is seemingly the Anti-Holland, so I doubt Edmonton will be too bad off with their cap. There's obviously an element of luck in what he does, but same went for Holland finding two-thirds, of his only real claim to modern success, in the last rounds of the draft. But I guess that success falls on Nill... right? Didn't he turn into the whipping boy in that area? In that respect, we can also blame Nill for overseeing the Datsyuk pick... since it eventually turned into the trade that 'may have' set the franchise back many years.

That trade to get rid of Datsyuks contract was good in that moment as we needed it to go after Stamkos. The biggest problem was we didnt get Stamkos though its still not a bad trade.

The bad part came when we dropped $4M on Helm, $5M on Nielsen for another 6 years or whatever.

Since when did Stamkos play D?

Joking aside, I'm aware of the 'supposed' strategy (the one pumped by Wings PR staff at the FREEP, News, MLive and most media outlets), but if the trade never happened, Holland would have been restrained. Since we all know that Holland loves to go hogging in FA (like that one friend we have that raises his numbers by lowering his standards), we should have seen the ugliness that cap space presented. Problem this time is, Holland may have gotten one of the hogs pregnant... with pain for many years the result.

In terms of the percentages behind drafting high, you could make a case either way, but it seems pretty obvious that it's much harder to build without. You certainly can't sign top 9 fodder long term for inflated prices and repackage them as top tier. That's what the Wings brass have done. Instead of calling for a medivac and planning on a tactical retreat, they've left the tourniquet on the org to keep them in the fight. A totally unnecessary fight where ego is the only item being protected.

http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-expected-value-of-nhl-draft-picks-1.317819

This latest update goes through NHL Drafts from 1990 through 2010:
10 - Generational
9 - Elite Player
8 - First Line, Top Pair D
7 - Top Six Forward, Top Four D
6 - Top Nine Forward, Top Six D
5 - NHL Regular, 350+ NHL games
4 - Fringe NHLer, 200+ NHL games
3 - Very Good Minor Leaguer, 50-200 NHL games
2 - Minor Leaguer, under 50 NHL games
1 - 10 or fewer NHL games


-Forwards in First 5 Picks
Average Rating: 7.22
Ranked 7 or better: 73.8%
Ranked 5 or worse: 12.3%
At Least 100 NHL Games (or very likely): 95.4%
Points Per Game: 0.75

-Defencemen in First 5 Picks
Average Rating: 6.85
Ranked 7 or better: 64.7%
Ranked 5 or worse: 8.9%
At Least 100 NHL Games (or very likely): 100.0%

-Goaltenders in First 5 Picks
Average Rating: 7.30
Ranked 7 or better: 80.0%
Ranked 5 or worse: 0.0%
At Least 100 NHL Games (or very likely): 100.0%

-Forwards in First 30 Picks
Average Rating: 5.04
Ranked 7 or better: 34.5%
Ranked 5 or worse: 48.5%
At Least 100 NHL Games (or very likely): 74.7%
Points Per Game: 0.58

-Defencemen in First 30 Picks
Average Rating: 4.69
Ranked 7 or better: 30.9%
Ranked 5 or worse: 53.1%
At Least 100 NHL Games (or very likely): 70.5%

-Goaltenders in First 30 Picks
Average Rating: 4.00
Ranked 7 or better: 28.3%
Ranked 5 or worse: 63.0%
At Least 100 NHL Games (or very likely): 47.8%

And not to beat this dead horse up too much... but if Boston stands as an example, the Wings should be very open to the idea of trading Mrazek and Larkin. DeKeyser, Abdelkader, Helm, and everyone that can possibly be moved too, but that goes without saying.

Even if tanking isn't the goal, Boston made moves that they thought presented gains in more areas than one. They traded Kessel after a cup run, and the Thornton trade was a huge area of distress for some time.

This is a pretty good piece on the Thornton trade:

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-joe-thornton-trade-10-years-later/

 

[njx9]

We are 0-8-0 when trailing after 2 periods. That means if we are down after 2, the game is over. We can't even force an OT.

I know it was like, 8 pages ago, but that's horrific.

I wish someone had stats for TOI per period, would be interesting to see usage for the 1st and the 3rd.

 

[Pavels Dog]

No, they're not. How could anyone think this team is good at hockey? They weren't a good team last season and have since lost their best player. So who was expecting a good team this year?

They weren't a good team last season when Blashill was also the coach. The year before that, they were actually pretty solid in both regular season and playoffs.

It's too easy to blame this on losing 1 player, or even on decline from Z/Kronner. Z is playing better than he did the last 2 seasons. Green is playing better than Kronner did the last 2 seasons. Why can't Sheahan score a goal on the 3rd line? Because Datsyuk isn't on the 1st? Ridiculous. Why can't our PP get a shot on goal? Datsyuk would have helped, but this goes beyond him.

I wasn't expecting a "good team" in the sense that they would be cruising towards the playoffs. But I was expecting more than the worst team in the league, unable to beat tired teams, unable to have a .500 record on home ice, unable to have a PP capable of getting >1SOG per 2 minutes.

Is that (2 regulation wins in 23 games) accurate?

Think so. We've been perhaps the worst team in the league after the 6 game winning streak. Change that 6 game streak to a more realistic 3-2-1 record and we're ahead of only Colorado.

One goal against the Yotes. Really?

Seven different Penguins managed to score one goal last night against the same team.

Another reason why blaming our roster is flawed. You don't need to be Crosby to score against Arizona. Our PP did nothing against the worst road PK in the league. Talent issue? Oh please.

Sproul deserved it.

But tonight Lashoff choked it up. (-3) from my scoring tonight. Should open the window for Sproul to come back in.
Ouellet (+2) from my scoring tonight, played well.

Sproul got eaten alive by Pittsburgh. PITTSBURGH. The team that beat this Arizona team 7-0 the night before this game. And that Arizona team was eating Lashoff alive. That tell you anything?

Sitting Sproul 1-2 games was fair. But Blash doesn't make any real decisions. He plays a guy until the guy performs badly, then he plays another guy until he plays bad. He should have taken the 2 wins he got with Lash in the lineup and then been proactive by getting Sproul back into action. That would have been a solid coaching decision. Instead he keeps playing Lashoff and we keep scoring between 0 and 2 goals, not knowing why.

Who's the last team that was able to build a successful team by spending without high draft picks? This crap strategy didn't even work without the cap. Just ask new york and Toronto.

Who cares really? The fact that something is unlikely to happen doesn't mean we shouldn't try. We were the first to build a team with a european style, the first to win with a european captain, we already rebuilt once mostly due to late picks. If we get high draft picks, so be it. But it shouldn't be because we just say "oh well if no one else can do it, why try?". What team was the last to have a 25 year playoff streak?

The moment it becomes okay for this team to suck, you lose everything you've built up over the last 30+ years. If we are going to suck this year, it better come with a strong message from ownership, management and even coaching that it's not fine.

As Heaton said Smith went into his former all-star beast mode. Coyotes have a "decent" team on paper and hope for the future. Also nothing to lose. Their D- OEL, Shenn, Goligoski, Stone, Deangelo, and Chychrun were solid. Way deeper than our defense. Holland and McGinn were good. Rieder, Martinook, etc. their young forwards are exciting enough to keep an eye on. Duclair was the greatest player on the ice, how does he only have 1 goal in 26 games? Sick skills.

There's nothing that makes the wings better than the yotes. Forwards are a wash with maybe a slight edge to Detroit. Defense is better in Phoenix with a legit number one. Goaltending is dependent on whoever is hot.

Tippet has a younger team that has nothing to lose. That's a lot more than Detroit has. Talent wise I would say it's a wash.

You all are way off. Arizona has abysmal depth everywhere. Their forwards are Vrbata-Domi and nothing. Their D is OEL and nothing. And the difference between OEL and a guy like Green is smaller than people think (trust me guys, OEL is not Lidstrom). "talent wise it's a wash" LOL. Arizona has a very good coach and is dead last. We have a horrible coach and is still somehow ahead of them. Change Blashill and Tippet and which team do you think improves?

Arizona has nothing to lose, except for a lot of hockey games. Which they do lose. Against almost everyone except us.

Nope. Based on the team we've chosen to ice, we are performing about where we should.

Other than a fluke 6-game winning streak, this team has performed as one of the absolute worst teams in the league this season. That is not where we should be. Should Sheahan have 0 goals? Should Tatar be on pace for something like 10-15 goals? Should Larkin be on pace for 6 assists?

This team is horribly underperforming and last night was just the most blatant example yet of how little Blashill is getting out of this team.

 

[Henkka]

Could someone say why we did start the game on dump-and-chase hockey? And after 40minutes at the start 3rd period, we started suddenly playing real puck possession, just like turning on a switch, and we totally dominated the first 12 minutes of the period.

Why aren't we playing puck possession from the start, getting leads?

I have some neutral zone data from this and latest games, and these things are really... let me say, very interesting.

I think this team is put to fail on purpose.

 

[Frk It]

Being bad enough for a top draft pick has far too much randomness nowadays for me to desire a full tank job. I'd rather the team spend money and try to win. If they fail they fail. So be it. I will never support a rebuild.

The moment it becomes okay for this team to suck, you lose everything you've built up over the last 30+ years. If we are going to suck this year, it better come with a strong message from ownership, management and even coaching that it's not fine.

What if we are still a bottom 10 team in March? What if we finish this season as a bottom 10 team?

At what point do we accept (assuming we continue the way we are trending) that we are no longer a competitive team, or can field a competitive team, and embrace the logical thing -- which is to re-build?

At some point, continuing to fight to win when you can't be a winning team is a losing endeavor. You're just shooting yourself in the foot for the draft.

 

[TheOtherOne]

What if we are still a bottom 10 team in March? What if we finish this season as a bottom 10 team?

At what point do we accept that we are no longer a competitive team, or can field a competitive team, and embrace the logical thing -- which is to re-build?

At some point, continuing to fight to win when you can't be a winning team is a losing endeavor. You're just shooting yourself in the foot for the draft.

I think it's funny that fans are constantly saying stuff like "we need to tank" and "this team is a disaster" in the same breath.

Is the team not currently doing what you are asking for? We just lost 4-1 to Arizona. Is that part of the rebuild? If we keep up this pace throughout the rest of the season, are we trash? Or are we doing exactly what all the fans are clamoring for?

 

[silkyjohnson50]

They weren't a good team last season when Blashill was also the coach. The year before that, they were actually pretty solid in both regular season and playoffs.

Lol. "Pretty solid." They were 3 points from missing the playoffs. They had the 2nd worst ROW of Eastern playoff teams that season and the worst goal differential. And all of this despite the fact that it was the healthiest we had Datsyuk in a while and he was one of the handful of players in the league to finish over a point/game. And surprise, surprise, his linemates (Helm and Tatar) both had career years!

And the cherry on top is that all of that happened with amazing coaching from the best coach in the world, yeah?

So if we assume that coaching has such a significant impact and we finished 3 pts from missing the playoffs with great coaching, is it fair to question whether or not we would be a playoff team with even average coaching?

Yeah, "pretty solid" team we had alright. And that train certainly wasn't heading in the right direction. It doesn't take a genius to see the organization has been headed in the wrong direction for years now. It's been a sinking ship.

So you can continue your crusade to bring all of your attention to Blashill, but it's laughable. You're picking at the tip of the pyramid while completely ignoring the base of the problem.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I think it's funny that fans are constantly saying stuff like "we need to tank" and "this team is a disaster" in the same breath.

Is the team not currently doing what you are asking for? We just lost 4-1 to Arizona. Is that part of the rebuild? If we keep up this pace throughout the rest of the season, are we trash? Or are we doing exactly what all the fans are clamoring for?

I think fans who're saying these things want a more "proactive tank" as opposed to "reactive tank"

that means they want us to actively move players for picks and prospects, to not sign players to lomng term deals who're older than 26 and to not play at the TOP of the salary cap

what we're currently doing is NOT whatsoever by design and is the result of being shortsighted and legacy driven

ken holland does not care about the longterm health of this franchise, he cares about the immediate impact upon his legacy, end of story, indisputable.

we could make a very quick turn around given the prospect cupboard advantage we're starting with(and i include mantha, mrazek, larkin and AA in that cupboard) but we must start being more aggressive now towards rebuilding for the future

 

[Pavels Dog]

What if we are still a bottom 10 team in March? What if we finish this season as a bottom 10 team?

At what point do we accept that we are no longer a competitive team, or can field a competitive team, and embrace the logical thing -- which is to re-build?

At some point, continuing to fight to win when you can't be a winning team is a losing endeavor. You're just shooting yourself in the foot for the draft.

After we make a coaching change and we still suck this badly. That is Step 1. At this point I refuse to believe that Tatar, Sheahan, Nyquist, Jurco, Larkin, Mrazek and Dekeyser have peaked and are now on the decline. I refuse to believe that Lashoff is better than Sproul and that Glendening should be in our top 6. I refuse to believe that our PP can't possibly be better than league worst.

I don't believe we are this bad and I don't enjoy watching this team look like they're having zero fun on the ice and seeing everyone's numbers drop and their trade values tank and young players development being hurt.

Lol. "Pretty solid." They were 3 points from missing the playoffs. They had the 2nd worst ROW of Eastern playoff teams that season and the worst goal differential.

They finished the year bad, but at no point where they close to missing the playoffs. And reality is that Babcock didn't have a high-end RHD like Green to work with or young guns like Larkin and Mantha, his rosters the last few years in many ways had more issues than we do now.

Most of all, to anyone who has watched the Wings under Blashill.. it's a team that doesn't pass the eye-test. The roster had issues the last few years under Babcock but they passed the eye-test. The team didn't look this horrible. They had better structure. Again, Datsyuk wasn't the reason Sheahan looked like a solid #3C and now looks like a borderline NHLer. It just doesn't work like that, and if you think it was all Datsyuk I'm afraid we have very, very different opinions about the game of hockey.

 

[Frk It]

I think it's funny that fans are constantly saying stuff like "we need to tank" and "this team is a disaster" in the same breath.

Is the team not currently doing what you are asking for? We just lost 4-1 to Arizona. Is that part of the rebuild? If we keep up this pace throughout the rest of the season, are we trash? Or are we doing exactly what all the fans are clamoring for?

I have no issues with how this season is going. Whether we are bad intentionally or not, it doesn't really matter to me. I think most likely we need a top 10 pick at this point. Maybe two years worth of them. It sucks to watch a lousy team, but it probably gets us what we need at this point in time.

I do think it's somewhat embarrassing when you have the media publish an article on you in the beginning of the season titled "Re-build, we'll just keep winning", where you publicly denounce the idea of re-building.... and then go on to be one of the worst teams in the league.

I'm not really sure that makes us any better than the teams that tanked. But some people have a lot of pride and want to hear ownership and Holland say the right things. Doesn't even really matter to me at this point. It is what it is.

I don't believe we are this bad and I don't enjoy watching this team look like they're having zero fun on the ice and seeing everyone's numbers drop and their trade values tank and young players development being hurt.

I can't argue with you here. This team is hard to watch, I watch a lot of games around the league and our on-ice product is just downright bad.

After we make a coaching change and we still suck this badly. That is Step 1. At this point I refuse to believe that Tatar, Sheahan, Nyquist, Jurco, Larkin, Mrazek and Dekeyser have peaked and are now on the decline. I refuse to believe that Lashoff is better than Sproul and that Glendening should be in our top 6. I refuse to believe that our PP can't possibly be better than league worst.

Even if those guys play at the level I think they can, I'm not sure that moves the needle as much as you are suggesting. And Blashill does not run our PP. So now we are talking about firing maybe 2 coaches. Which I would call very, very unlikely.

 

[theYman]

Well Boston probably has the worst shooting % in the league. They aren't offensive juggernauts either yet they almost lead the league in shots. At least we have an excuse there for not putting the puck in the net. We don't shoot the puck!! But on the other hand you have the Rangers with an insane shooting%. They're 21st in shots at 29 per game only 5 positions better than us. We're 26th at 28.4 shots a game. And yet they lead the league in goals. They're now 2nd at 3.42. But how the hell do they maintain such an insane shooting% like that? Okay they have Rick Nash. Who the hell else is considered a bonafide star player or sniper on that team? They have insanely overachieved IMO. Not saying they shouldn't be a playoff team just but this good?

 

[Probert]

Blash has a really good hockey mind, and he's a good coach, but the players are not responding to him. I watched the game last night, and as much as I like Blash I was ready to throw Mike Keenan at these players. Yeah, Mike ****ing Keenan, or anyone else who's going to be tough on these guys. The lack of effort is ****ing appalling.

Pardon my language.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Winnepeg is still rebuilding and added an amazing talent last season. How terrible! Meanwhile we're against the cap and playing the likes of Brian freaking lashoff. I'm sure if we give it enough time this strategy will work out!

Also you ignored the question. What team has been succesfull building the way you're advocating?

I fully expect the Wings to forgo the top 10 pick they will "earn" this year because that's not now real hockey clubs opposed to tanking are built. Or at least trade down and get two picks at the bottom half of the first round in exchange for that top 10 pick.

It makes as much sense as what I'm hearing from people who think the current roster and strategy is the way to return to glory.

 

[njx9]

I fully expect the Wings to forgo the top 10 pick they will "earn" this year because that's not now real hockey clubs opposed to tanking are built. Or at least trade down and get two picks at the bottom half of the first round in exchange for that top 10 pick.

Somewhere in New Jersey, Kyle Quincey's ears just perked up.

 

[ap3x]

If players like Sheahan can't ****ing score on their initial line, I don't get the logic of promoting them at the expense of others that can.
This line juggling & system of promoting guys like Sheahan & Glendening without them paying back is deeply annoying...

Same with Jurco, he came back from injury & was directly put in the top 6 without paying anything back so far. Keeps playing there regardless of that. Sheahan & him are the definition of being snakebitten right now. Can't afford to wait for them to score, it's costing us way too much points.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

They finished the year bad, but at no point where they close to missing the playoffs. And reality is that Babcock didn't have a high-end RHD like Green to work with or young guns like Larkin and Mantha, his rosters the last few years in many ways had more issues than we do now.

Most of all, to anyone who has watched the Wings under Blashill.. it's a team that doesn't pass the eye-test. The roster had issues the last few years under Babcock but they passed the eye-test. The team didn't look this horrible. They had better structure. Again, Datsyuk wasn't the reason Sheahan looked like a solid #3C and now looks like a borderline NHLer. It just doesn't work like that, and if you think it was all Datsyuk I'm afraid we have very, very different opinions about the game of hockey.

Again, 3 pts from being out of the playoffs, 2nd worst in ROW among playoff teams, and dead last in goal differential. But they passed your eye-test so all is good. Cool.

You're out to lunch if you think Babcock's rosters his last couple years were worse than this current group. He didn't have a RHD at Green's level, sure, but he also had a Kronwall that wasn't completely finished. So he had a solid LHD unlike this current roster. Regardless, neither roster had an elite defencemen and Holland has not been able to acquire and elite defencemen since the loss of Lidstrom.

But the bigger impact in terms of Babcock vs Blashill rosters again comes down to Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Datsyuk and Zetterberg had a combined 4 point/game seasons Babcock's final 3 seasons. There was definitely a lot of injuries to deal with in that time, but the bottom line is that Detroit doesn't and hasn't had anything like that the last two seasons with Blashill. When you lose elite forwards and your best players you suffer.

Lol at bringing up Larkin and Mantha. They're good young players, but please. 2012-15 Datsyuk+Zetterberg+Kronwall blows 2015-Current Green+Zetterberg+Whoever you want to add out of the water.

Elite talent wins hockey games. Always has, always will. Detroit no longer has any elite talent. Detroit had an elite talent as far back as 2014-2015.

And again, why are talking about Blashill so in depth when the issue goes so far beyond?

I'll say this for the 100th time. Bring peak Scotty Bowman in to coach this roster and what do we get? Exactly. So why do you put so much emphasis on Blashill when at the end of the day it truly doesn't matter. He can't win here right now. Nobody could. The roster sucks and the direction of the franchise has been on a poor path.

Go back and read threads. I used to be one of Holland's biggest supporters on here. But there's no defending him. And you putting on this one-man crusade that places th majority of the blame on Blashill is a joke.

 

[Jake Hoyt]

Some confusing roster decisions for the wings to say the least. Need more shots, scratch Sproul. Down 2 going into the third, only adjustment is Glendening to the top line?

 

[Gyldenlove]

I guess if we are tanking for Liljegren have to start somewhere.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Is that (2 regulation wins in 23 games) accurate?

I'm glad someone else noticed it.

Every single time the Wings won games since that streak I typically commented to myself on how it was yet another overtime or shootout victory.

This team is on a free fall right now. How many teams have been worse in that stretch? Any?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Again, 3 pts from being out of the playoffs, 2nd worst in ROW among playoff teams, and dead last in goal differential. But they passed your eye-test so all is good. Cool.

Are we talking about the same year? 2014-15 Pittsburgh and Anaheim had worse GD than us, Winnipeg and Ottawa had worse ROW and Pittsburgh/Chicago were tied with us at 39, and it was more like 4+ points to actually being out of the playoffs when you take into account that Boston would have needed to jump us in order for us to miss. Are you talking about 2013-14, which was a worse year for us (when we had all those injuries and the Nyquist-explosion carried us)?

Team also had way better underlying stats back then if you don't trust my eye test (would love to hear from people who think THIS team looks better than the 14-15 Wings).

I'll say this for the 100th time. Bring peak Scotty Bowman in to coach this roster and what do we get? Exactly. So why do you put so much emphasis on Blashill when at the end of the day it truly doesn't matter. He can't win here right now. Nobody could. The roster sucks and the direction of the franchise has been on a poor path.

Go back and read threads. I used to be one of Holland's biggest supporters on here. But there's no defending him. And you putting on this one-man crusade that places th majority of the blame on Blashill is a joke.

That's fair, it's your opinion. I don't believe this roster is Cup-caliber or even supposed to be in a steady playoff position. I just think we're better than this. I think the team can be more fun to watch at minimum, and potentially do quite a bit better in the actual standings. Team had a must-win game against the easiest team in the league to win against, and they didn't have a SOG for 15 minutes of the 1st period. You blame that on the roster, I blame it on the coach. Truth is maybe in the middle, but changing the entire roster is much more difficult than changing the coach.

 

[Fear]

Could someone say why we did start the game on dump-and-chase hockey? And after 40minutes at the start 3rd period, we started suddenly playing real puck possession, just like turning on a switch, and we totally dominated the first 12 minutes of the period.

Why aren't we playing puck possession from the start, getting leads?

I have some neutral zone data from this and latest games, and these things are really... let me say, very interesting.

I think this team is put to fail on purpose.

This is just what happens when a bad team on the second game of a road back-to-back has a lead. They let up and let the other team do what they want.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Honestly the most entertaining part of the Wings games lately has been reading the post-game thread titles.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Wow. Didn't watch the game but just watched the goals on NHL.com

1st goal - I will let it slide because its a PP goal. However Howard did not get over quick enough..Same Old Howard coming back?

2nd goal - DeKeyser and Green....WTF kind of D is that? Man The F - UP!

3rd goal - Lashoff..welp he should be sitting right? no look back hand pass to the slot. Panic much? Sproul can come back now.

4th goal - Lashoff again, where ya looking bud? You can't let that pass through. Get your damn stick in the lane.


Can't win if we don't score more than 1 anyway but..it's even worse when the worst team puts in 4.

 

[mjlee]

Lidstrom going to coach Västerås defence part time, http://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey/hockeyallsvenskan/lidstroms-nya-jobb--backtranare-i-vasteras/ who don't even play in the SHL. Sigh what a waste. Still looking good though.

 

[HIFE]

...4th goal - Lashoff again, where ya looking bud? You can't let that pass through. Get your damn stick in the lane...

That 4th was a kick to the groinal region. Not just Lashoff but Glendening, Zetterberg, and Green such a massive fail. They slammed that puck home in a powerful way and quickly, was honestly a nice goal.