Proposal: Thoughts on Ottawa bringing in Fresh Blood to Front Office

[ChelFan31]

Hey guys, new to the thread.

I'm sure there are threads and discussions regarding front office change, but I wanted to get this off my chest and start a new one: specifically for the idea of bringing in someone currently outside of the organization to bring a fresh approach to the current stalemate of a front office we have.

I have much respect for B Murray and his career in hockey. I think it's time for a change though. And I'm not talking about simply promoting from within because that won't change much, if anything. We cannot allow for this country club culture to continue. Giving out Legacy contracts like the resigning of Neil is the reason why we are where we are and not a true contender.

To become a contender, I would like to see a complete overhaul of the front office. This culture of trading players to their desired destination cannot stand. We need a shrewd GM. One that will maximize return for the organization, and not worry about hurting player relations.

One name that comes to mind, and could very well be available come this summer is Doug Wilson. I know he's currently under contract, however with another first round exit, Hasso Plattner will surely give him his walking papers. Now he's a Ottawa guy and that's a bonus. Fundamentally I think he would bring everything Ottawa needs right now. He's got an astute ability to identify creative ways of team building and cut loses with dead weight players.

Any thoughts on the possibility of Melnyk bringing in someone like Doug in to run this ship? Or even any outsider if Murray does decide to go forward and step down. Whod you guys like to see come in? Also, could you see someone of Doug's experience coming into the GM armchair with Murray still in he background in an advisory role?

Click to read more...

 

[pepty]

Doug Wilson would be a good choice but I am not sure if this kind of shake up with this owner is likely, especially as Bryan Murray would have some sort of oversight position.

But Wilson as GM and Julian as coach would be an interesting change, if they became available.

 

[Knave]

I agree that we need someone from outside the organization but for some reason I just don't see it happening.
Maybe we will. Maybe Melnyk is secretly upset with Murray and his management team.

Murray built much of Anaheim (pre-2007) as an example and as much as I hate Burke - he came in and made some key changes that helped put them over the hump (and beat us in the finals).

That being said - Burke also got fortunate that Edmonton and Pronger's wife existed.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I wonder how much will really change if Dorion becomes GM and Murray becomes an advisor. It's not like we will even be getting a new assistant GM if Dorion takes over because we already have Randy Lee. I think some new faces and fresh ideas would be welcome.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

New blood will not make this team any richer.

I'm all in favour of bringing in new blood with a new approach but it is a mistake to think that it would yield immediate results.

We are a cheap team. That means we build through the draft and sign good complementary players which, in turn, makes us especially vulnerable to variance.

Had Zibanejad and Cowen both exceed expectations we would likely be a fantastic team with a very bright future.

Alas they did not (Zibanejad has been looking hungrier) so we are a crap team.

It's part of being broke.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

I could possibly see Melnyk making an outside hire at GM, but I doubt he will get rid of both Dorion and Lee if he can help it. Rebuilding a staff entirely takes a lot more money than maintaining one. This is our situation until Melnyk sees a financial boon or sells the team.

I would have been happy with Ray Shero last year, I would be happy with Doug Wilson this year. I do think we're most likely to go with Dorion, though, and if he's not successful we will ride him out until Alfie is ready.

 

[ChelFan31]

New blood will not make this team any richer.

I'm all in favour of bringing in new blood with a new approach but it is a mistake to think that it would yield immediate results.

We are a cheap team. That means we build through the draft and sign good complementary players which, in turn, makes us especially vulnerable to variance.

Had Zibanejad and Cowen both exceed expectations we would likely be a fantastic team with a very bright future.

Alas they did not (Zibanejad has been looking hungrier) so we are a crap team.

It's part of being broke.

It would definitely not make them any richer, but it could certainly change the dynamic in which they optimize their assets at their disposal. Having the ability to recognize which players are past their prime [Neil, Phillips, Legwand, Michalek] and which to sign or not sign/trade for [Greening, Cowen, Conacher] could save the club compelling amount of savings/and return in trades.

I agree with you that to be a perennial contender we would most likely need to be a cap or near cap team to compete year in year out. But remaining with the status quo from an asset management perspective won't get even get us close at all. At least with a calculating/shrewd management of a Wilson OR another Outsider it could potentially give us a chance at a deep run. We don't even have a chance atm.

Dorions probably the front runner to take over for Murray if he does intend to leave. But I can't understand everyone's fascination to crown him as the heir replacement. How much of a discrepancy between salaries would it really be between a young AGM like Dorion and a established General Manager [especially considering if Dorion were to get a pay raise if he were selected] ?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Personally, I have been very underwhelmed by Wilson as a GM in recent years. He's been making some poor desperate moves for San Jose only to spin their tires. We could do worse, but I don't have a ton of comfidence in the guy.

I'm okay with Dorion being the next guy since his record as head scout has been great. We need that to stay competitive. That has to be an absolute requirement for the position.

The guy I'm really looking at is Alfredsson. I know this won't fly with some fans but if we want a GM who can ensure Karlsson is a Senator years from now, Alfie is the man for the task. I also think Alfie could manage Melnyk in a way that most outsiders couldn't. He knows him and how overly emotional (and cheap) he is. Make it Alfie and surround him with the best possible assistants you can.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Personally, I have been very underwhelmed by Wilson as a GM in recent years. He's been making some poor desperate moves for San Jose only to spin their tires. We could do worse, but I don't have a ton of comfidence in the guy.

I'm okay with Dorion being the next guy since his record as head scout has been great. We need that to stay competitive. That has to be an absolute requirement for the position.

The guy I'm really looking at is Alfredsson. I know this won't fly with some fans but if we want a GM who can ensure Karlsson is a Senator years from now, Alfie is the man for the task. I also think Alfie could manage Melnyk in a way that most outsiders couldn't. He knows him and how overly emotional (and cheap) he is. Make it Alfie and surround him with the best possible assistants you can.

Pretty much what I'm thinking, but Friedmann made a point about Alfie wanting to make sure he's ready for the job when he finally does step into it. I think they will give Dorion a chance and bring Alfie along at his own pace.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It would definitely not make them any richer, but it could certainly change the dynamic in which they optimize their assets at their disposal. Having the ability to recognize which players are past their prime [Neil, Phillips, Legwand, Michalek] and which to sign or not sign/trade for [Greening, Cowen, Conacher] could save the club compelling amount of savings/and return in trades.

I agree with you that to be a perennial contender we would most likely need to be a cap or near cap team to compete year in year out. But remaining with the status quo from an asset management perspective won't get even get us close at all. At least with a calculating/shrewd management of a Wilson OR another Outsider it could potentially give us a chance at a deep run. We don't even have a chance atm.

Dorions probably the front runner to take over for Murray if he does intend to leave. But I can't understand everyone's fascination to crown him as the heir replacement. How much of a discrepancy between salaries would it really be between a young AGM like Dorion and a established General Manager [especially considering if Dorion were to get a pay raise if he were selected] ?

The takeaway is that we swung for the fences with Cowen and Zibanejad and it simply did not work out.

Once that reality settles in there's no point in thinking we have shot at being a competitive NHL team.

We'll get one chance at being good every now and then and unless everything works out perfectly all we should expect from this franchise is a playoff bubble team.

New management will not change that.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Great point on money. Until Eugene sells or finds a deep-pockets partner, we simply won't have the money to compete. It's not just about payroll....how many teams promote so many former players into management positions? How many have promoted an athletic trainer into assistant GM? Why...because it's cheaper. That cheapness transcends the entire organization...management, scouting (pro, not amateur), training facilities, the investment in Bingo....everywhere.

The NHL is the top hockey league on the planet. You need to be first class everywhere to compete. Going cheap is not an option.


As for outsides hires as the new GM, upper management and coaching staff.....why would folks bring up 'old school' names like Wilson or Burke? If you want a real chance of direction, you want guys who are 'all in' with the new NHL, and where the league is going - not where the NHL was.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Pretty much what I'm thinking, but Friedmann made a point about Alfie wanting to make sure he's ready for the job when he finally does step into it. I think they will give Dorion a chance and bring Alfie along at his own pace.

Completely valid points.

One thing with hiring Alfie right now would be that he wouldn't have to make a ton of big roster decisions in the beginning. He'd be inheriting a team that has sufficient talent and doesn't need big turnover to compete for a playoff position. He'd only need to focus on a couple areas in his early tenure like the PK and he was a fantastic penalty killer in his days. Him and Dorion just need to sort out the coaching situation and maybe add a piece or two in the bottom end of the roster to solidify special teams then worry about bigger moves in year 2 and 3 while he figures it out on the fly. Just my thoughts.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Does Alfredsson know how to manage contracts and the salary cap? Is he a good evaluator of talent? What legal background does he have? What connections around the league (management level) does he have? Does he know how to build a team?

Even Yzerman spent several years working his way up the ladder and apprenticing under some of the best int he business before becoming GM.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Does Alfredsson know how to manage contracts and the salary cap? Is he a good evaluator of talent? What legal background does he have? What connections around the league (management level) does he have? Does he know how to build a team?

Even Yzerman spent several years working his way up the ladder and apprenticing under some of the best int he business before becoming GM.

That's why you'd want to support him with a competent legal/contract assistant, which wouldn't be that difficult to find.

An eye for talent and building a team you would hope comes with a long hall of fame career on the ice going from an overage low round European pick. His connections would be solid just from the presence and respect he'd command from his piers as said HHOFer.

Managing a cap is as simple as adding up 8 figures. Hardly rocket surgery if you trust the individual's opinions and evaluation of talent.

By no means do I think Alfie is the slam dunk we need, but if I want to ensure Karlsson is a Senators long term, this is an Avenue to explore.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Does Alfredsson know how to manage contracts and the salary cap? Is he a good evaluator of talent? What legal background does he have? What connections around the league (management level) does he have? Does he know how to build a team?

Even Yzerman spent several years working his way up the ladder and apprenticing under some of the best int he business before becoming GM.

I think what Yzerman did was smart. Take the time to learn from a guy that has been doing into for a long time in Holland instead of rushing into it. That's what I hope Alfredsson does.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

IMO Alfredsson should and will be the next GM.

Just not now. Dorion has deserved it and is perfect stop gap... heck, if we become excellent under Dorion then continue to keep him on board.

Yea, with Alfredsson as GM some years from now, Karlsson won't be going anywhere.

I really like Dorion though. I think he can be a great GM.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

That's why you'd want to support him with a competent legal/contract assistant, which wouldn't be that difficult to find.

An eye for talent and building a team you would hope comes with a long hall of fame career on the ice going from an overage low round European pick. His connections would be solid just from the presence and respect he'd command from his piers as said HHOFer.

Managing a cap is as simple as adding up 8 figures. Hardly rocket surgery if you trust the individual's opinions and evaluation of talent.

By no means do I think Alfie is the slam dunk we need, but if I want to ensure Karlsson is a Senators long term, this is an Avenue to explore.

Being a GM is a heck of a lot more than that. This is a huge leap for anyone. He has less than a year of experience in a suit.

This feels like another nepotism "feel good" hire.

 

[ChelFan31]

That's why you'd want to support him with a competent legal/contract assistant, which wouldn't be that difficult to find.

An eye for talent and building a team you would hope comes with a long hall of fame career on the ice going from an overage low round European pick. His connections would be solid just from the presence and respect he'd command from his piers as said HHOFer.

Managing a cap is as simple as adding up 8 figures. Hardly rocket surgery if you trust the individual's opinions and evaluation of talent.

By no means do I think Alfie is the slam dunk we need, but if I want to ensure Karlsson is a Senators long term, this is an Avenue to explore.

Again this brings me to my very first point again. We cannot continue this babying and spoiling culture [with Karlsson and others] to automatically please them with what they want. It sets a precedent, and greys the lines between who's truly in charge. This also puts our coach at bind as they in case have no leverage to stand on if players are constantly having managements back pocket.This is the National Hockey League, not your friends dads Jr B operations.

I love Alfredsson, and god was he a great captain. But promoting him to the GM armchair with his razor thin team building resume would be nothing short of a complete disaster. ABOVE ALL he would have way too many EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENTS to our current players [having played with a bunch of them]. We need someone who's view and outlook is from a distance and not local who could unbiased approach could shake things up.

 

[ChelFan31]

Great point on money. Until Eugene sells or finds a deep-pockets partner, we simply won't have the money to compete. It's not just about payroll....how many teams promote so many former players into management positions? How many have promoted an athletic trainer into assistant GM? Why...because it's cheaper. That cheapness transcends the entire organization...management, scouting (pro, not amateur), training facilities, the investment in Bingo....everywhere.

The NHL is the top hockey league on the planet. You need to be first class everywhere to compete. Going cheap is not an option.


As for outsides hires as the new GM, upper management and coaching staff.....why would folks bring up 'old school' names like Wilson or Burke? If you want a real chance of direction, you want guys who are 'all in' with the new NHL, and where the league is going - not where the NHL was.

I understand moneys currently tight with Melnyk. But how much of a discrepancy would it really be in what he's paying B Murray right now [and or Dorion with a pay raise] AND and established GM like a Wilson/McPhee/Chiarelli[ last yr]?

 

[otown]

Alfie has to learn the ropes still if he has aspirations of becoming GM. It would be a mistake to promote him prematurely and could cause some dissension within the ranks if others who are more qualified are overlooked.
Alfie's greatest strength is evaluating player talent and mentoring young players to reach their potential. This is an invaluable asset to have.
You match the role to the person's strengths. As he continues his apprenticeship, other strengths will become apparent and he can assume other responsibilities.

 

[SensFanX10]

I don't like Alfie as GM, more of Executive of Hockey Ops like Shanahan... The reason being he can hire and fire the GM....
If he is the GM, that likely means he will be fired at some point.

 

[Tuna99]

Does Alfredsson know how to manage contracts and the salary cap? Is he a good evaluator of talent? What legal background does he have? What connections around the league (management level) does he have? Does he know how to build a team?

Even Yzerman spent several years working his way up the ladder and apprenticing under some of the best int he business before becoming GM.

If EK is happy, Ottaw is happy, Alfie makes EK happy and the Captain knows he has a direct line to management with Alfie in the picture, so I'm 100% for this.

And Alfie is not someone who is going to rest on his laurels. He'll want to be the best executive he can and work on all his debts and weaknesses to make himself better, just like he he did as a player.

 

[aragorn]

I don't think it will matter whether you bring in a new GM, a new coach or a new owner or increasing the budget will make this team any better, if you can't get Ryan, Hoffman, Zibanejad & Karlsson to commit to playing a better defensive game or managing the puck better. Being dead last in goals against & on the PK isn't going to win you a lot of games when your stars care more about scoring then defending. We heard about this country club atmosphere around this team since the Alfredsson days so I doubt he is going to change it & how will the team win more games if the players continue to be selfish & play a free style game & pad their stats? DC gets a lot of grief on here for how he is handling Hoffman but if he is the main culprit who doesn't want to commit to defence what else can a coach do but bench him or cut his ice time & PP ice time?

In order to have this team win more games there will need to be some serious changes with the players either with how they play or simply move some out of the organization. DC is the second coach who has been unable to get some of these players to play the game the right way & I'm not so sure a 3rd coach will either if the players won't listen to anyone. They may have to move some players to change their mind set to work harder & be committed to the defensive side of the game. A new GM & more money won't change that either, afterall it's the players who play the game & it's the players who have to change & fix all of these problems this team has or be replaced themselves. What if this all happens again with a new coach & the players stop listening to him too, what then?

 

[bert]

Doug Wilson would be a good choice but I am not sure if this kind of shake up with this owner is likely, especially as Bryan Murray would have some sort of oversight position.

But Wilson as GM and Julian as coach would be an interesting change, if they became available.

Doug wilson would not be a good choice at all its amazing that San Jose is still competitive with the bone head moves he has made over the last 3 seasons.

 

[ChelFan31]

Doug wilson would not be a good choice at all its amazing that San Jose is still competitive with the bone head moves he has made over the last 3 seasons.

To solely analyze the 3 most recent years of his work would be foolish. You would need to judge him over his complete body of work to get the full understanding of his strengths and capabilities.

He practically robbed the Bruins and Minny clean with the acquisition of to-be HOF Thorton and Big Brent Burns, and has a masterful grasp on trade market value. Heck he even robbed Murray swindling a 50 goal scorer for Jonathan Slow as Snail Cheechoo and some Milan Bad Knees Michalek. He's got a knack for trading assets, which we certainly lack [Bishop]. That is the type of quality that our front office currently lacks and needs so desperately.

And its not like their would be a drop off at the draft table with DW and Tim Burke running things. He knows how to identify and pluck talent in later rounds: Joe Pavelski 5th rd. We wouldn't be losing anything, but only gaining in areas of managerial weakness.