Thomas Vanek Part II

[stranger34]

Yeah, wasn't saying I agree with it, it's just one strategy and what Original Islander brought up. Stranger is just twisting the logic to meet his agenda rather than just acknowledging that both Vanek and Moulson had the same exact lifespan on being an asset when the trade occurred. Therefore, they are a wash.

Not at all!

I'm saying that moulson/Vanek are one asset

The picks are two others.

If you had kept moulson and let him walk then it's just that one asset lost.

With Vanek we are considerably more invested.

 

[stranger34]

Agree. He misses the point. You swap a ufa for a ufa. A even exchange. What happens with your x ufa is no longer part of the equation. You cannot lose something you already traded . You now have a new asset.

You give up two picks in the deal because the ufa you recieved was better than the one you gave. The two picks is your investment in the trade. They are recoverable should you decide not to sign your ufa and trade him. What the other team does with your old ufa is irrelevant. You cannot include Moulson in your equation, he is gone. lol

Your maximum loss in the deal is two picks, one of which is a first rounder below the top five. That means at best you wait five years for the development process to mature your pick before you can judge if he is one of the 3 out of 10 who will turn into a significant NHL assest. If we are talking defenders even longer and greater odds.

The sky does not fall.

Holy cow!

This isn't hard! I'm looking at the net of if you never make the Vanek trade and move moulson for picks vs letting Vanek walk... The amount of assets lost between trading moulson and holding onto those 2 picks vs trading for Vanek and letting him walk is staggering

 

[LeapOnOver]

Not at all!

I'm saying that moulson/Vanek are one asset

The picks are two others.

If you had kept moulson and let him walk then it's just that one asset lost.

With Vanek we are considerably more invested.

You are still missing the point, but whatever my head hurts from banging it against the brickwall which is labeled "Strangers (Il)logic".

Maybe you can get OI back in here to explain to you about the life of an asset....You were stating we were losing three assets originally, not two.

 

[On Edge]

Not at all!

I'm saying that moulson/Vanek are one asset

The picks are two others.

If you had kept moulson and let him walk then it's just that one asset lost.

With Vanek we are considerably more invested.

Simply put and exactly correct.

 

[borisbadenough]

, to a lesser extent,

Holy cow!

This isn't hard! I'm looking at the net of if you never make the Vanek trade and move moulson for picks vs letting Vanek walk... The amount of assets lost between trading moulson and holding onto those 2 picks vs trading for Vanek and letting him walk is staggering

A first (below five and probably below 14 if things turn out well) and a 2nd are a pimple on an elephants a-- when placed within the context of the last ten years of Islander rebuild or within the context of the Vanek for Moulson trade. Vanek is the elephant for so many hockey related reasons.The same holds true,to a lesser extent, if we are talking a strait up MM trade for picks. Mouslon is the only real asset. It is never bad asset management to use or lose picks to acquire or trade for established 30 goal NHL players especially ones that can take your center to 100pts and have score 270 goals in seven seasons

We gave up two picks and a player for a better player. Those are the facts of the case. Beyond that it pure speculation that Vanek walks. How many times should one yell the sky may fall? Lets wait until it hits us in the head before we start again.

Most of us do not care if we lose picks should he walk. We care because we lose the player.Snow will not lose his job because he lost two picks.

Nice to see you moved off the three assets thing and we are now down to two.



Good news. We both agree, I think, he does not resign. More speculation.

 

[Dutch Frost]

Vanek Resigns with us.. BOOK IT NOW!!!!

 

[bigd]

Vanek has so much more Talent than Moulson but he looks disinterested to me. I don't think he resigns before the trade deadline. He will put himself up for bid and go where he wants to go. Why wouldn't he? He's holding all the cards!

 

[Dutch Frost]

Vanek has so much more Talent than Moulson but he looks disinterested to me. I don't think he resigns before the trade deadline. He will put himself up for bid and go where he wants to go. Why wouldn't he? He's holding all the cards!

LMAO He looks disinterested??? He is averaging a point a game.

What do you want him to do? Score a goal skate to center ice and cuff his ear asking the crowd to chant Vanekmania and flex for the fans????

Maybe we can record "I'm a real Austrian"

Would that satisfy you??

 

[FourRings]

LMAO He looks disinterested??? He is averaging a point a game.

What do you want him to do? Score a goal skate to center ice and cuff his ear asking the crowd to chant Vanekmania and flex for the fans????

Maybe we can record "I'm a real Austrian"

Would that satisfy you??

Did you watch last night's game? I'm as big a supporter of Vanek as you'll find, but he was playing pretty lazily last night.

 

[InformTheMasses]

LMAO He looks disinterested??? He is averaging a point a game.

What do you want him to do? Score a goal skate to center ice and cuff his ear asking the crowd to chant Vanekmania and flex for the fans????

Maybe we can record "I'm a real Austrian"

Would that satisfy you??

This made me choke, I am still laughing about this.

Sign me up, I'd love to see vanekamania

 

[bigd]

LMAO He looks disinterested??? He is averaging a point a game.

What do you want him to do? Score a goal skate to center ice and cuff his ear asking the crowd to chant Vanekmania and flex for the fans????

Maybe we can record "I'm a real Austrian"

Would that satisfy you??

Just think what he could do if he really wanted to be here. He's great with the puck but he's terribly lazy without it. He's out of here after this season, book it!

 

[ScaredStreit]

You are still missing the point, but whatever my head hurts from banging it against the brickwall which is labeled "Strangers (Il)logic".

Maybe you can get OI back in here to explain to you about the life of an asset....You were stating we were losing three assets originally, not two.

If Vanek walks we lose 3 assets:

1st
2nd
Vanek


It isn't that hard to figure out.

 

[24diving]

If Vanek walks we lose 3 assets:

1st
2nd
Vanek


It isn't that hard to figure out.

Which is 2 more assets than we would have, after moulson walked - not 3 like some here keep claiming

 

[borisbadenough]

Just think what he could do if he really wanted to be here. He's great with the puck but he's terribly lazy without it. He's out of here after this season, book it!

You want a guy with fewer goals, pts,assists, less playmaking skill, but with an energy game? Ok I am in for that . Can we get one off our fourth line?

Or, you want a guy with his skill sets,faster, who has the same numbers,who has more energy and plays a more well round game. Ok, I am really in for that too. Who did you have in mind and is he available?

"Snipers are ideally paired with a play-making centre that can pass the puck well to his wingers. The play-making centre is responsible for carrying the puck into the offensive zone and getting the puck to a sniper who is expected to be in a good shooting position. Snipers behave differently from traditional wingers in that they do not go into corners and battle for pucks as often as "grinders" or more balanced wingers. Snipers are often on the shooting end of one-timers so they must also have a decent slapshot. Many snipers like to shoot from their off-wing, like left-handed shooters who prefer to shoot from the right side and vice versa"

 

[borisbadenough]

If Vanek walks we lose 3 assets:

1st
2nd
Vanek


It isn't that hard to figure out.

IF< IF<IF IF and in the end so what? We were losing three assets with Moulson too had he stayed, and was not signed or traded.

 

[bigd]

You want a guy with fewer goals, pts,assists, less playmaking skill? Ok I am in for that .

Or, you want a guy with his skill sets,faster, who has the same numbers,who has more energy and plays a more well round game. Ok, I am in for that too. Who did you have in mind and is he available?

"Snipers are ideally paired with a play-making centre that can pass the puck well to his wingers. The play-making centre is responsible for carrying the puck into the offensive zone and getting the puck to a sniper who is expected to be in a good shooting position. Snipers behave differently from traditional wingers in that they do not go into corners and battle for pucks as often as "grinders" or more balanced wingers. Snipers are often on the shooting end of one-timers so they must also have a decent slapshot. Many snipers like to shoot from their off-wing, like left-handed shooters who prefer to shoot from the right side and vice versa"

I want Vanek here but I just don't see him wanting to be here. There is no denying his skill but It looks to me like he's just riding out the season. Forget the stats and watch his play without the puck. At least Moulson wanted to be here but Snow obviously didn't want to pay him what he's going to command on the open market.

 

[Dutch Frost]

Just think what he could do if he really wanted to be here. He's great with the puck but he's terribly lazy without it. He's out of here after this season, book it!

He averages a point a game and the team is on a good hot streak right now. Zigmund Palffy was terribly lazy without the puck as well. Please tell me how Matt Moulson was any different?? Please tell me how great of a Selke candidate Matt Moulson was???

Its a shame the olympic break is going to put it all on ice cause we are rolling quite nicely. Line 1 is clicking rather nicely IMO.

 

[borisbadenough]

I want Vanek here but I just don't see him wanting to be here. There is no denying his skill but It looks to me like he's just riding out the season. Forget the stats and watch his play without the puck. At least Moulson wanted to be here but Snow obviously didn't want to pay him what he's going to command on the open market.

Fair.

 

[duster19]

Did you watch last night's game? I'm as big a supporter of Vanek as you'll find, but he was playing pretty lazily last night.

I agree. Call it whatever you like, but last night wasnt his best effort.

Hope he signs becauae he has been very good for us

 

[Dutch Frost]

I agree. Call it whatever you like, but last night wasnt his best effort.

Hope he signs becauae he has been very good for us

Ill chalk this up to the fact that they were in FLA for a week in 80 degree sunny weather after escaping a polar vortex of brutal chill.

 

[bigd]

He averages a point a game and the team is on a good hot streak right now. Zigmund Palffy was terribly lazy without the puck as well. Please tell me how Matt Moulson was any different?? Please tell me how great of a Selke candidate Matt Moulson was???

Its a shame the olympic break is going to put it all on ice cause we are rolling quite nicely. Line 1 is clicking rather nicely IMO.

Talk to me when he bolts and we've lost those two picks for nothing.

 

[NYI365]

I want Vanek here but I just don't see him wanting to be here. There is no denying his skill but It looks to me like he's just riding out the season. Forget the stats and watch his play without the puck. At least Moulson wanted to be here but Snow obviously didn't want to pay him what he's going to command on the open market.

Thats honestly how Vanek plays. A lot of Buffalo fans said that was his playing style when he was traded to us. When he was on BUF I remember that he has tremendous skill but was a bit slow getting back into the D zone. Don't think you could be disinterested and almost average a PPG and be plus 7 on an Isles team thats -23 overall.

 

[Macch]

i really think people need to stop looking into Vanek's every mannerism and shift as if it will tell us if he wants to stay or go.

There's a lot of games left. I predict he'll have games where he looks great and people will proclaim "he loves it here and playing with JT"

He'll also have bad games where people will say "he doesn't want to be here, he looks sluggish and he wasn't smiling on the bench when the camera showed him."

I'm sure he's leaning one way, but trying to get inside his head is pointless.

 

[nyisles]

Talk to me when he bolts and we've lost those two picks for nothing.

Remember when Ryan Smyth bolted and the Isles lost those "three first rounders" for nothing?

ITT: people more interested in "assets" than success. The rebuild can't go on forever, folks.

 

[borisbadenough]

Talk to me when he bolts and we've lost those two picks for nothing.

And that would be the end of the world and reason enough to have not done this deal to begin with because everybody knows that a below five 1st round pick and that second round pick would have brought us the Stanley cup faster than the last thirty have. lol