Thomas Vanek Part II

[Jester9881]

Hey, if he plays at a PPG pace like he has, and that isn't considered dominant for him? I'll take that.... I'll be more than happy with that.

 

[frankieboy]

If Thomas Vanek doesn't like Greek food, I don't want him on this team.

I see you read LIGHTHOUSEHOCKEY!

 

[borisbadenough]

He actually isn't playing the best hockey of his career. He hasn't dominated a single game the way he often did in buffalo. Used to watch him a lot in buffalo.

I think he used to get the puck more in the o zone when in Buffalo and he played with a winger that had the same finesse game. He plays with more of a shoot first line now, and on the pp we have no idea of how to use him and no point to deliver the puck properly anyway. What do his shots per game look like in comparison? What do his goals and assists project out at?

It seems he is playing more of a playmaker role here right now and appears to like it. He creates a significant number of our best scoring chances each game and is still open a lot in the o zone, as usual, but the puck does not seem to be there, or on the rare occassion it is, it arrives late. They are all trying to play together. Jt has the skills and vision to play with him for sure and make some beautiful music. Ko is going to get better with them too . I can see 40 there

Snow was on the money, TV can make Jt a 100pt 40 goal guy. We have not seen anything near potential for that line. imo We could be looking at three 40+ goal guys next year. He could also be a dangerous guy to build a second line around with some of the skilled kids. His numbers would probably look the same or better playing against a two pair. Like him with Nielsen and CDH,probably Bailey too.

Noticed Cappy does not put him out there in OT.. lol .Nice move Cappy

 

[LeapOnOver]

If Vanek walks we lose 3 assets:

1st
2nd
Vanek


It isn't that hard to figure out.

The day Vanek walks is the day Moulson stops being an asset. His contract is up at the same time. Once again i'm talking about the life of an asset. Wake up and read the other posts before you think you know what you are going to type to sound right.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Remember when Ryan Smyth bolted and the Isles lost those "three first rounders" for nothing?

ITT: people more interested in "assets" than success. The rebuild can't go on forever, folks.

TY, and people, even with the outcome finalized still call that a bad trade. They still would want a meaningless O'Maara, Nilsson, and Plante over the chance at Ryan Smyth. The fact that people still call that a bad trade cracks me up. It's obvious the trade ending up being a non-factor for both teams.

 

[LeapOnOver]

sigh.

Moulson is an UFA too. Moulson wasn't going to be resigned for what he's asking. I rarely talk in absolutes, but I'd back up that statement with a large sum of $.

They cancel each other out in this equation, basic math.

So it's only two assets potentially lost IF Vanek doesn't re-sign, with the added benefit of a stronger season from Vanek this year which is undebatable at this point.

I think people who can't grasp this should completely lose their posting privileges, lol. There needs to be an IQ test to register!!! Not about Moulson resigning but the simple fact that two people on here are fabricating an extension to Moulson which is undeniably false and factually an assumption at best.

 

[FourRings]

sigh.

Moulson is an UFA too. Moulson wasn't going to be resigned for what he's asking. I rarely talk in absolutes, but I'd back up that statement with a large sum of $.

They cancel each other out in this equation, basic math.

So it's only two assets potentially lost IF Vanek doesn't re-sign, with the added benefit of a stronger season from Vanek this year which is undebatable at this point.

While I like the Vanek deal, I see what they're trying to say.

Moulson is about equal to Vanek value wise so lets say the return each of them is a 1st and a 2nd at the deadline.

We spent 1st+2nd+Moulson (who has his own value of a 1st rounder) on Vanek.

If we had stood pat with Moulson and flipped him at the deadline, we would have original picks and then some, now if we flip Vanek we essentially lose Moulson for nothing because we only recoup a 1st and a 2nd round pick.

I'm for the trade though and think it was definitely worth the price.

 

[RMimagery]

Vanek, especially now is > Moulson value wise.

 

[Jester9881]

Not about Moulson resigning but the simple fact that two people on here are fabricating an extension to Moulson which is undeniably false and factually an assumption at best.

The fact alone that he was traded, should tell you all you need to know about the Islanders interest in resigning him in the first place. Moulson was not going to get re-signed anyway.

 

[stranger34]

The day Vanek walks is the day Moulson stops being an asset. His contract is up at the same time. Once again i'm talking about the life of an asset. Wake up and read the other posts before you think you know what you are going to type to sound right.

You don't get it. period. You refuse to look at anything circumstantial.

This entire argument I've made is in response to posters saying it's ok if we hold Vanek only to lose him.

again, i am ok with this trade if we sign Vanek. If we trade him I'll reserve judgment until I see the return.

Like I've said before, if Buffalo trades Moulson and We hold Vanek only to lose him, good luck arguing we only lost out on 2 assets.

 

[Jester9881]

I think he used to get the puck more in the o zone when in Buffalo and he played with a winger that had the same finesse game. He plays with more of a shoot first line now, and on the pp we have no idea of how to use him and no point to deliver the puck properly anyway. What do his shots per game look like in comparison? What do his goals and assists project out at?

It seems he is playing more of a playmaker role here right now and appears to like it. He creates a significant number of our best scoring chances each game and is still open a lot in the o zone, as usual, but the puck does not seem to be there, or on the rare occassion it is, it arrives late. They are all trying to play together. Jt has the skills and vision to play with him for sure and make some beautiful music. Ko is going to get better with them too . I can see 40 there

Snow was on the money, TV can make Jt a 100pt 40 goal guy. We have not seen anything near potential for that line. imo We could be looking at three 40+ goal guys next year. He could also be a dangerous guy to build a second line around with some of the skilled kids. His numbers would probably look the same or better playing against a two pair. Like him with Nielsen and CDH,probably Bailey too.

Noticed Cappy does not put him out there in OT.. lol .Nice move Cappy

A big part of this is the fact that our PP is an absolute disaster. The Islanders had a top ten PP unit each of the last 3 years, then the idiot coaching staff completely turns it on it's head and it's toward the bottom of the league. You would think one of those brainiacs would figure this out and revert to what actually worked.

 

[LeapOnOver]

You don't get it. period. You refuse to look at anything circumstantial.

This entire argument I've made is in response to posters saying it's ok if we hold Vanek only to lose him.

again, i am ok with this trade if we sign Vanek. If we trade him I'll reserve judgment until I see the return.

Like I've said before, if Buffalo trades Moulson and We hold Vanek only to lose him, good luck arguing we only lost out on 2 assets.

Good luck, the only truth and fact will be we lost two assets. Saying we lost Moulson at that point is irrelevant because the contract he had with the Isles would have expired by then. Any contract he has is expired if Buffalo does not resign him. He would no longer be an asset. I'm sorry I refuse to look at things that are blatantly and factually incorrect...

 

[giddy up*]

Good luck, the only truth and fact will be we lost two assets. Saying we lost Moulson at that point is irrelevant because the contract he had with the Isles would have expired by then. Any contract he has is expired if Buffalo does not resign him. He would no longer be an asset. I'm sorry I refuse to look at thinks that are blatantly and factually incorrect...

You are correct.

We swapped a UFA for a UFA. They cancel out. No net change there.

What we "lost" are the two picks.

It's not complicated.

 

[LeapOnOver]

You are correct.

We swapped a UFA for a UFA. They cancel out. No net change there.

What we "lost" are the two picks.

It's not complicated.

apparently it is for some people :-(

 

[giddy up*]

He actually isn't playing the best hockey of his career. He hasn't dominated a single game the way he often did in buffalo. Used to watch him a lot in buffalo.

This is true. He was an animal last year. If he didn't get hurt and pominville didn't get traded he would've been in the Hart discussion.

 

[MrRuin]

I think Vanek is actually benefitting massively from the situation here in NYI. Why? Because he does not burn out after 10-15 games of beast mode like he had been in Buffalo where he absolutely had to make things happen (mostly) by himself. What we are seeing now is a Thomas Vanek as a player that consistently - and that's the keyword here - is putting up points helping his team win and making things happen. Everybody on this board has read how streaky a player TV is. Since the trade he is showing a very different side which is still just as effective but may just help him prolong his game for longer periods of time.

He does not have to dominate alone or carry his team on his shoulders by himself. Much like JT had to in the past and he similarily disappeared for smaller stretches. Almost nobody can carry a line or team 84 games on his own. I think this is the key here to Vanek's possible success with the Islanders.

 

[luki here]

I think he used to get the puck more in the o zone when in Buffalo and he played with a winger that had the same finesse game. He plays with more of a shoot first line now, and on the pp we have no idea of how to use him and no point to deliver the puck properly anyway. What do his shots per game look like in comparison? What do his goals and assists project out at?

It seems he is playing more of a playmaker role here right now and appears to like it. He creates a significant number of our best scoring chances each game and is still open a lot in the o zone, as usual, but the puck does not seem to be there, or on the rare occassion it is, it arrives late. They are all trying to play together. Jt has the skills and vision to play with him for sure and make some beautiful music. Ko is going to get better with them too . I can see 40 there

Snow was on the money, TV can make Jt a 100pt 40 goal guy. We have not seen anything near potential for that line. imo We could be looking at three 40+ goal guys next year. He could also be a dangerous guy to build a second line around with some of the skilled kids. His numbers would probably look the same or better playing against a two pair. Like him with Nielsen and CDH,probably Bailey too.

Noticed Cappy does not put him out there in OT.. lol .Nice move Cappy

he shot while with the sabres. Alone this year he had 50 shots in 13 games, while he has had "only" 85 shots in 33 with the isles. However he has been effective, just not dominant, like i said.



If vanek ever gets this dominant in an isles game, we will be jubilant. The two assist he had in that game where amazing, too bad they aren't included in the video.

 

[frankieboy]

apparently it is for some people :-(

I think what STRANGER is saying is that the only way we are talking about two assets (the 1st and 2nd) is if Moulson would have been allowed to walk, and Vanek walks. Then, the two FAs cancel each other out and we lost two assets. IF the team would have traded Moulson at the deadline, how can that still be two assets? Maybe we wouldn't have traded him if we were in a playoff run, etc. But, Moulson would have been an asset that could have been traded just as AMAC, Nabby, and Vanek are potential assets that could be traded. Each of them are FAs after this year, yet would anyone say they aren't assets? In any case, the Islanders owned the following assets before the trade:

Moulson
1st
2nd

Now, they have Vanek. I think we got equal value if we resign Vanek. We might have even won the trade. But, my post is not about who won the trade. Letting Vanek walk means we lost three assets (if you assume Moulson was valuable enough to net something desirable and you believe Snow wouldn't have let him walk for nothing).

 

[borisbadenough]

he shot while with the sabres. Alone this year he had 50 shots in 13 games, while he has had "only" 85 shots in 33 with the isles. However he has been effective, just not dominant, like i said.



If vanek ever gets this dominant in an isles game, we will be jubilant. The two assist he had in that game where amazing, too bad they aren't included in the video.

So , shot totals are down a bit 40%.( just looked, his career is 2.81 wow, looks low career wise too for a 260+ goal scorer) This year, stats wise , are insignificant i know. He does not appear he is getting the puck when and where he needs it, is still my take. That is timing . It will come . The whole line needs shot totals to go up. Ok Cappy, tell the d not to shoot.lol

 

[michaelrc51]

he shot while with the sabres. Alone this year he had 50 shots in 13 games, while he has had "only" 85 shots in 33 with the isles. However he has been effective, just not dominant, like i said.



If vanek ever gets this dominant in an isles game, we will be jubilant. The two assist he had in that game where amazing, too bad they aren't included in the video.

I am just surprised on the last goal he didn't try to get it to the other shooter!
LOL

If he would look like TV of old.....I can't even think about the possibilities. I guess everyone who plays with JT reaps some kind of benefits.

That line is great right now, I could only imagine what they would be like with the old TV there. If only we could get more consistency from 2 and 3 lines.

 

[ScaredStreit]

The day Vanek walks is the day Moulson stops being an asset. His contract is up at the same time. Once again i'm talking about the life of an asset. Wake up and read the other posts before you think you know what you are going to type to sound right.

The day that you trade Moulson for a pick(s) it extends the life of the asset. Wake up and read other posts before you think you know what you are going to type to sound right.

1st, 2nd Moulson = 3 assets
Vanek =1

3-1=2 assets lost but as I said in an earlier post you're not factoring in Moulson's opportunity cost:

1st,2nd, another pick (that we got from trading moulson)=3 assets

3-0 (the amount of assets we get if Vanek walks to UFA)=0

3-0=3 assets lost

I think what STRANGER is saying is that the only way we are talking about two assets (the 1st and 2nd) is if Moulson would have been allowed to walk, and Vanek walks. Then, the two FAs cancel each other out and we lost two assets. IF the team would have traded Moulson at the deadline, how can that still be two assets? Maybe we wouldn't have traded him if we were in a playoff run, etc. But, Moulson would have been an asset that could have been traded just as AMAC, Nabby, and Vanek are potential assets that could be traded. Each of them are FAs after this year, yet would anyone say they aren't assets? In any case, the Islanders owned the following assets before the trade:

Moulson
1st
2nd

Now, they have Vanek. I think we got equal value if we resign Vanek. We might have even won the trade. But, my post is not about who won the trade. Letting Vanek walk means we lost three assets (if you assume Moulson was valuable enough to net something desirable and you believe Snow wouldn't have let him walk for nothing).

Exactly.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

I think Vanek is actually benefitting massively from the situation here in NYI. Why? Because he does not burn out after 10-15 games of beast mode like he had been in Buffalo where he absolutely had to make things happen (mostly) by himself. What we are seeing now is a Thomas Vanek as a player that consistently - and that's the keyword here - is putting up points helping his team win and making things happen. Everybody on this board has read how streaky a player TV is. Since the trade he is showing a very different side which is still just as effective but may just help him prolong his game for longer periods of time.

He does not have to dominate alone or carry his team on his shoulders by himself. Much like JT had to in the past and he similarily disappeared for smaller stretches. Almost nobody can carry a line or team 84 games on his own. I think this is the key here to Vanek's possible success with the Islanders.

That's actually pretty interesting. Before Vanek got here, Tavares would score in bunches. Now that he and Vanek have clicked Tavares has been extremely consistent, way more than when he was with Moulson.

 

[redbull]

That's actually pretty interesting. Before Vanek got here, Tavares would score in bunches. Now that he and Vanek have clicked Tavares has been extremely consistent, way more than when he was with Moulson.

Tavares has become much more consistent in his game, despite Vanek. Even earlier this year Tavares was pretty consistent, albeit unspectacular. But Vanek has definitely made a difference in Tavares' game AND his output. Tavares plays a different game now. Last year, Tavares started shooting a lot more. He said he was "always a shooter" and both Boyes/Moulson were passing to JT a lot and Tavares scored a lot of goals in the short season. But this year, even before Vanek, JT was back to his pass-first mentality, which he seems really comfortable with.

Now with Vanek, after a feeling out period where they didn't mesh, it's completely different. Vanek is making passes that Tavares has NEVER gotten, not even in junior. Tavares said so in a recent interview (after one of the last two games, on NHL Network or Isles website) that he's always got to be ready for a pass, that Vanek is an amazing passer even through traffic or in unexpected places on the ice (paraphrasing).

Okposo's been great as well this year, a bull-dog like he was in his first couple of seasons, and that line's one of the best in the NHL now.

With Moulson/Boyes, Tavares put up points, no doubt, but he is a far better and more dangerous player on the ice NOW. Even though the scoring isn't that much better, the on-ice impact is far superior, especially 5on5! Tavares with Boyes/Moulson - horrid last year 5on5, a liability.

It's the PP that's KILLING the Isles this year, they are absolutely terrible, with MacDonald leading the way. I don't like KO on the PP either, but that point play by MacDonald is unbearable. If the PP gets going, I can see JT hitting 100pts this year and Vanek in the 80s. But a deadline decision will have to be made long before we see that.

While I like the Vanek deal, I see what they're trying to say.

Moulson is about equal to Vanek value wise so lets say the return each of them is a 1st and a 2nd at the deadline.

We spent 1st+2nd+Moulson (who has his own value of a 1st rounder) on Vanek.

If we had stood pat with Moulson and flipped him at the deadline, we would have original picks and then some, now if we flip Vanek we essentially lose Moulson for nothing because we only recoup a 1st and a 2nd round pick.

I'm for the trade though and think it was definitely worth the price.

I don't trust Snow when it comes to deadline deals (non-deals!) so I kinda expect Vanek to walk after finishing the season helping the Islanders miss the playoffs.

But the bolded, is simply not true. Vanek is FAR better than Moulson. They are similar players in terms of style, but Vanek is a much better player, with far more "value" both to a team and in the market. IF, he's moved.

 

[Janson]

All this is moot, said from the beginning we don't have the $ for Vanek. Marriott foreclosure adds to that argument.

 

[IslesRock4]

Part III is now open.