This Team's "Dead Weight", and How to Shed It

[billybudd]

Bennett is not a better skater than Sundqvist. His balance is terrible and his turns are so wide it reminds me of MacIntyre.

 

[rightwinglock]

the only deadweight I want removed is Guerin, Bottlecap, and... Fitzgerald. And the scouts. And Morehouse.

If they start over completely from scratch, if they bring in fresh people at every position, and those people decide that Scuderi and Adams should be on the team, adn that Kunitz is a top-6 winger, and that Sutter is a good 3C, etc etc etc

then I will shut up forever about it and accept that I don't know what I'm watching.

I may be of mark here, but I get the sense that Guerin is somewhat of a big problem regarding the way this organization goes around doing business. Going back to him and Bennet in Beau's first prospect camp, always thought there was something off and not just two guys bantering. Can't recall any situations with him and Despres, but I could see Guerin as a defender of the current dead weight on the team. Are you dropping a couple of subtle hints our way?

 

[cygnus47]

That attitude is exactly how you get into this circle jerk. Nothing is a good choice when you systematically limit your choices to begin with.

The fix was indeed simple. When you see your organization trending in a certain direction, you cut loose and you "rebuild." You have to realize that signing guys in their mid 30's to 4 year extensions won't lead to anything good in the long run (and in this case, the short run)

Sometimes you do indeed just have to let guys go. It forces you to develop patience with your young players. It forces you to get out of your stupid comfort zone when it comes to the draft. Nurturing Despres instead of Engelland makes the Scuderi deal unnecessary. Having a little more patience with a replacement can lead to a Martin trade for a 1st rounder. The cap money left over can sign a much better top six FA forward AND bottom six forward.

There were ways to go about it, and they chose the worst possible one.

Funny thing is that Shero himself taught us these things in 07-11. It was HIS policy not to re-sign guys for more than a year at a time in their mid thirties. His whole draft strategy relied on playing young defenseman after drafting them, getting them to the level that they can replace your top 4 and then trading someone. Strange how success changes a man. Definitely for the worse.

1) Cutting Adams away 3 years ago would have been good timing. Below replacement level in every way. I think even OUR mgmt won't re-sign him, good on MJ for eventually getting him out of the lineup.
2) I thought Scuds was going to be a good signing, on the condition that Orpik was traded. If we had another genuine top 6 on top of what we've got, we could forgive them. He obviously needs to go, he makes it too hard on whoever is his partner and he costs too much. Have Cole - Lovejoy be the 3rd pairing. I'd be happy to cap dump Scuds but I think he has enough value that you can get a bottom 6 guy from a young team for him. He's definitely movable without taking salary back but we may only get a bottom 6er like Klinkhammer.
3) Kunitz can definitely be moved, unfortunately his value has been dying around the league with all the negative press. Last year you get an underperforming genuine top 6, this year not so much. If he has a good playoffs, he can probably be moved in an anti-Despres kind of move for someone with upside who has been "inconsistent". Hopefully a physical tweener who drives possession, scoring or not.
4) Sutter has the full backing of the Penguins Press behind him and seems to be viewed in a very positive light, even by the actually neutral sports media. He probably has more value than Kunitz and I wouldn't be surprised if you can get someone with top 6 potential that is at least NHL ready for him, especially if he has a good playoffs. Between Sunny and Spaling we can fill the 3C, but I'd be looking for a short term UFA 3C as well.
5) Lapierre is dead weight too, even as a 4th liner.
6) Bennett needs to be re-signed, Cole can be as long as it is cheap. I don't think he's any better than Doom and Harry except for his physical play though, but with Despres gone we need another body.

So I'd say if we moved them all we could get something like:

- Kunitz (3.85)
- Scuds (3.375)
- Adams (0.7)
- Sutter (3.3)
- Lapierre (1.2)

+ Physical tweener (1.5)
+ Young top 6 potential (0.9)
+ 4th line possessor (1.0M)
+ Dupuis? (3.75)
+ 5.225M cap space

No sure things, but a lot less dead weight

 

[IcedCapp]

I took **** earlier this season for saying the Kunitz contract was un-Shero like.

I think people will be more receptive to that message now. He QUICKLY changed for the worse.

 

[Terrapin]

If I were GM in the offseason. Obviously get rid of Kunitz, Scuds, Adams, Ehroff, and Sutter. Should also seriously consider getting rid of Martin.

Sutter, Ehroff, and Kunitz should be able to at least get some draft picks in return.

Bring in a big forward who can play. Don't know who exactly, but someone along the lines of Stewart, Lucic, Kane, etc for example (I know those guys aren't readily available).

Bring in 1, if not 2 big, nasty defensemen.

Perron-Sid-Horny
Lucic-Geno-Bennett
Winnick-Spaling-Comeau
Farnham-Lapierre-Downie

Letang-Martin
Maata-Lovejoy
Pouliot-Big defensman

I don't expect Dupuis to be back.

That's a lineup that should be able to win with skill or physicality.

 

[DeadPuckEra]

Do a rebuild on the fly, retool of you will. Get rid of all of the veterans. Get the youth movement going on D. Find a top six winger or two. Send Brandon Sutter's soft ass somewhere.

I'm willing to burn another year of the two headed monsters prime at this point if we can get our youth established. Especially on D. If we have Dumoulin, Harrington and Pouliout in Erhoff, Martin, Scuderi out... You can just about sign any winger you want.

This organization has already wasted 5 years of Crosby and Malkin's career. What's another one at this point. Let's get a solid set up going for the second half of these guys careers instead of relying on the one year deals for guys like Blake Comeua to add production.

 

[Human]

I took **** earlier this season for saying the Kunitz contract was un-Shero like.

I think people will be more receptive to that message now. He QUICKLY changed for the worse.

it's not, Shero hasn't given him a NMC...

I agree that Martin is expandable. he is washed up and his offense is unexistant... pair him with a guy like Scuderi or Lovejoy and he'll get as many point as those... on top of it he's going to cash in on reputation...

 

[Jacob]

XXXX - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron - Malkin - XXXX
XXXX - Sutter - Bennett
XXXX - Spaling - XXXX
XXXX

Strip the forwards down to this by July 1st. Target Vermette, Stafford, Frolik or Stewart for the top 6 spots and Winnik, Matthias, Comeau or Downie for the bottom 6. Leave a spot or two available for Farnham, Sundvist, Rust, Wilson or any camp invites to earn.

XXXX - Letang
Maatta - XXXX
Pouliot - Lovejoy
XXXX

Openings go to Cole, Harrington and Dumoulin based on performance. If we can't move Scuderi, he becomes the #7.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

XXXX - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron - Malkin - XXXX
XXXX - Sutter - Bennett
XXXX - Spaling - XXXX
XXXX

It shouldn't be too hard to flip Sutter. There can be a lot more roster creativity, especially with the makeup of the third line.

Why wouldn't Comeau be in the lineup?

 

[Jacob]

He's a UFA

 

[WayneSid9987]

My problem with Martin right now is this:

The D-Core as a whole is very soft with Despres being shipped out and Pouliot, Maata, Harrington or Domoulin aren't gonna improve it's physicality by that much either.

I easily let a 34 yr old Martin walk in this instance. At best you pick up a more physical top pairing D or at worst a younger/way cheaper blue chip prospect steps in who can develop physicality in thier games and you spend more money up front.

 

[The Old Master]

until we move EVERYONE who signed off on the Lovejoy for Fatty trade.....we are just walking backward down the stairs, trying to get higher.
edit; I've tried to stay away but I'm still pissed.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

This team won't change a thing until ticket sales lag.

Nothing about this organization is proactive - they're as reactive as it gets.

I can stop reading now that someone said the biggest fact! Thank you.
Nothing changes as long as they fill the arena

 

[IcedCapp]

I may be of mark here, but I get the sense that Guerin is somewhat of a big problem regarding the way this organization goes around doing business. Going back to him and Bennet in Beau's first prospect camp, always thought there was something off and not just two guys bantering. Can't recall any situations with him and Despres, but I could see Guerin as a defender of the current dead weight on the team. Are you dropping a couple of subtle hints our way?

if I answer this, it wouldn't be subtle -.-- . ...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

if I answer this, it wouldn't be subtle -.-- . ...

Do go on...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It isn't hard to imagine Guerin being a bit of a problem, honestly. He was the right fit as a player, for a time. But holding on to these guys directly after their playing careers expire seems chancy. Still a hell of a lot of competitive blood pumping through their veins. They want to make an impact but can't on the ice, anymore... so... enter questionable roster decisions. Some former players can comfortably make the transition. Mostly because they were analytical, cerebral players who had also mastered their emotions to work for them. Guerin wasn't that kind of player.

Plus, there is some precedent with Guerin when it comes to not exactly seeing eye-to-eye with young players.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It isn't hard to imagine Guerin being a bit of a problem, honestly. He was the right fit as a player, for a time. But holding on to these guys directly after their playing careers expire seems chancy. Still a hell of a lot of competitive blood pumping through their veins. They want to make an impact but can't on the ice, anymore... so... enter questionable roster decisions. Some former players can comfortably make the transition. Mostly because they were analytical, cerebral players who had also mastered their emotions to work for them. Guerin wasn't that kind of player.

Plus, there is some precedent with Guerin when it comes to not exactly seeing eye-to-eye with young players.

He's also probably friends with Kunitz since they played together. Which would help explain another reason why Kunitz keeps getting preferential treatment for this long. Having a friend as the C and a friend in mgmt can't hurt your cause.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not trying to trash the guy. I loved him as a player, here. Crucial part of the Cup winning team, IMO. Third in points, that post-season. A distant third... but still. I'd love to have a guy like him (of that vintage) on the roster, right now.

I just don't know about fast-tracking him through the organization while, like you said, he still has so many personal ties to the team on the ice.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm not trying to trash the guy. I loved him as a player, here. Crucial part of the Cup winning team, IMO. Third in points, that post-season. A distant third... but still. I'd love to have a guy like him (of that vintage) on the roster, right now.

I just don't know about fast-tracking him through the organization while, like you said, he still has so many personal ties to the team on the ice.

I'm speculating, obviously. However, it seems obvious Kunitz having friends in high places is keeping him bathed in sugar minutes. It certainly isn't his play, that's for sure.

Shero let his personal feelings get involved and that's why they have so much dead weight on this roster.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Makes a Hell of a lot of sense that Guerin would empathize and stick up for guys who are well beyond over the hill.