Confirmed with Link: This team continues to play players through injuries and f*** the prospects (Mangiapane shoulder surgery)

[pucksfeedthewolf]

It's a general rule, but naive to think that's actually followed to the letter in pro-sports.

I think it’s more likely that medical professionals would be more liberal with this in pro sports than it is teams would open themselves up to the liabilities that come with going against a Doctor.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Well tbh we don't know the whole story. When was he injured? How severe was it? Did he elect to play through it till the end of the season?

Don't have all the info to shit on the organization for their handling of it honestly.

This organization has a history and deserve no benefit of the doubt.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

And we know that the advice from team experts and doctors was to stop playing and have the surgery beyond a shadow of doubt?

Like, don’t misinterpret my post. If a doctor said that then he should be out. But I highly doubt if that was said that the Flames nor Sean would have had the power to keep him in the lineup by overruling the Doctors.

The general rule wherever I’ve played or coached is “what the Doctor/AT says goes” - I doubt that’s any different in the NHL.

Seems like you guys should take your issues up with medical professionals - not the Flames, nor players who want to keep playing.

Nah, it's more like
1) Player is hurt. Tweaks something or whatever.
2) Doctor advises surgery is required to correct it.
3) Team and/or player decides surgery can wait
4) Player proceeds to underperform all season
5) Player gets surgery after season ends. Additional damage caused by playing through injury to be determined.

Step 3 should be "player gets surgery to correct medical issue that requires surgery" IMO. Yes I've played competitive sports (because that's a criteria I guess) and yes I've done stupid things as a result - winning or losing doesn't make the decision any less stupid.

 

[pucksfeedthewolf]

Nah, it's more like
1) Player is hurt. Tweaks something or whatever.
2) Doctor advises surgery is required to correct it.
3) Team and/or player decides surgery can wait
4) Player proceeds to underperform all season
5) Player gets surgery after season ends. Additional damage caused by playing through injury to be determined.

Step 3 should be "player gets surgery to correct medical issue that requires surgery" IMO. Yes I've played competitive sports (because that's a criteria I guess) and yes I've done stupid things as a result - winning or losing doesn't make the decision any less stupid.

This all complete speculation. As a long-time lurker, I have to say, I did expect MUCH more from you - usually have well thought out posts that are at least somewhat based in fact.

Like, how do we know the Doc doesn’t advise surgery can wait? How do you know it’s the team and player?

I’m almost certain that there are instances where a medical issue may either potentially or definitely need surgery, but it’s not a timely or urgent matter.

I get that it’s vogue to blame everything on management/coaches/ownership right now, but come on. Let’s stop speculating on internal medical processes, injury severity, and trying to establish causation for untreated injuries ruining careers.

Be better.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

This all complete speculation. As a long-time lurker, I have to say, I did expect MUCH more from you - usually have well thought out posts that are at least somewhat based in fact.

Like, how do we know the Doc doesn’t advise surgery can wait? How do you know it’s the team and player?

I’m almost certain that there are instances where a medical issue may either potentially or definitely need surgery, but it’s not a timely or urgent matter.

I get that it’s vogue to blame everything on management/coaches/ownership right now, but come on. Let’s stop speculating on internal medical processes, injury severity, and trying to establish causation for untreated injuries ruining careers.

Be better.

It's all f***ing speculation my dude. That's the point of these forums in the first place, to talk about things related to the sport and team we enjoy. Put me on a pedestal if you want but just remember that I'll only disappoint you.

Now... I didn't say that the doctor said whether or not waiting was a good idea, just conducts the diagnosis and provides the advice that surgery is required to correct it. Yes that's speculation on the fact that guys don't choose to get surgery for the hell of it after the season ends - at some point prior, somebody in a white coat very likely said "this needs to be surgeried"

I'm not all on the management hate train here either - player shares responsibility too. Probably said that earlier, but I'll say it louder for those in back.

 

[Mazatt]

This organization has a history and deserve no benefit of the doubt.

To add even more fuel, Andersson has just spoken about how he rushed back from getting hit by a car and is still in pain to this day. I don't have a lot of faith that the organization has the best interest of players in mind when it comes to proactive health decisions. Or at the very least are for some reason continually letting injured players into the lineup.

Either way the whole machismo "play through injury" idea is stupid. Zero reason any organization should be complacent in supporting it.

 

[Kranix]

Mike Peluso also claims the Flames management rushed him back from head injury in 97-98. not that there's any continuity with current management. But it has happened in the NHL forever.

 

[pucksfeedthewolf]

To add even more fuel, Andersson has just spoken about how he rushed back from getting hit by a car and is still in pain to this day. I don't have a lot of faith that the organization has the best interest of players in mind when it comes to proactive health decisions. Or at the very least are for some reason continually letting injured players into the lineup.

Either way the whole machismo "play through injury" idea is stupid. Zero reason any organization should be complacent in supporting it.

Being in pain does not equate to there being a significant injury persisting…

If we want players to sit out every day they’re in pain, let’s pay a 17 game schedule like the NFL?

 

[Mazatt]

Being in pain does not equate to there being a significant injury persisting…

If we want players to sit out every day they’re in pain, let’s pay a 17 game schedule like the NFL?

Right, but Andersson directly saying he rushed back isn't an indication that he would've been better if he sat out a bit? And that maybe, just maybe, there can be benefits to letting players get healthy and perform at their peak instead of operating at 80% throughout the season?

Mindsets like yours are reductive to the overall conversation of how to preserve players careers in the long-run

 

[pucksfeedthewolf]

Right, but Andersson directly saying he rushed back isn't an indication that he would've been better if he sat out a bit? And that maybe, just maybe, there can be benefits to letting players get healthy and perform at their peak instead of operating at 80% throughout the season?

Mindsets like yours are reductive to the overall conversation of how to preserve players careers in the long-run

I would take Andersson at 80% over literally any of the other available defencemen, yes.

Would love to see a source that states playing through pain, and all type of injuries reduces a players career.

Like, obviously there’s injuries that should be taken very seriously and given time to rehab - head injuries, etc.

Do we think think guys like Cogliano and Yandle had iron man streaks without playing through injuries? They still had pretty long careers, no?

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Team Norms and Playing Through Injury in Sport - The Sport Information Resource Centre

Examples of so-called “tough” athletes who play through injury for the sake of sport. Such athletes are commended for their determination and grit, and their stories serve to glorify the willingness to play hurt.

sirc.ca

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305883363_Playing_through_the_Pain_A_University-Based_Study_of_Sports_Injury

“Playing Through It”: Delayed Reporting and Removal From Athletic Activity After Concussion Predicts Prolonged Recovery

Preclinical research has demonstrated a window of vulnerability in the immediate aftermath of concussion wherein continued activity and stimulation can impair or prolong neurobehavioral recovery. However, this concept has not been quantified in a human ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://rucore.libraries.rutgers.edu/rutgers-lib/38451/PDF/1

And also found this, which speaks to the other supports a player could need during recovery. Spoiler, it's not just physical therapy and recovery time.

Sports injuries affect more than just a player’s body

Being stuck on the sidelines can take a serious toll on an athlete’s mental health

theeyeopener.com

 

[pucksfeedthewolf]

Team Norms and Playing Through Injury in Sport - The Sport Information Resource Centre

Examples of so-called “tough” athletes who play through injury for the sake of sport. Such athletes are commended for their determination and grit, and their stories serve to glorify the willingness to play hurt.

sirc.ca

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305883363_Playing_through_the_Pain_A_University-Based_Study_of_Sports_Injury

A study about why athletes chose to play through pain - really doesn’t contribute much here.

“Playing Through It”: Delayed Reporting and Removal From Athletic Activity After Concussion Predicts Prolonged Recovery

Preclinical research has demonstrated a window of vulnerability in the immediate aftermath of concussion wherein continued activity and stimulation can impair or prolong neurobehavioral recovery. However, this concept has not been quantified in a human ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Article about concussion recovery - already said that is one of the injuries that should be taken extremely seriously - thanks for proving part of my point, I guess?

https://rucore.libraries.rutgers.edu/rutgers-lib/38451/PDF/1

And also found this, which speaks to the other supports a player could need during recovery. Spoiler, it's not just physical therapy and recovery time.

Sports injuries affect more than just a player’s body

Being stuck on the sidelines can take a serious toll on an athlete’s mental health

theeyeopener.com

I’ll read the other one’s when I get home, but the portions I skimmed I have some questions about whether they apply - one was primarily directed to youth athletes, for example.

There’s a very big distinction between “pain”, “hurt” and “injured” - I even used the wrong term. In my above post. If a player is legitimately injured, they should not be playing. Hurt, or in pain without an injury, absolutely they should.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

If a player is legitimately injured, they should not be playing. Hurt, or in pain without an injury, absolutely they should.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on this point - at least I'm not.

 

[pucksfeedthewolf]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on this point - at least I'm not.

Fair enough, just a case of different standards for injuries and such. At the very least I get some good reading material tonight when I get home

 

[Haatley]

Maaaan, you really need a new team lol

 

[Fig]

Another issues that arises at times is that playing through that injury will do less damage than rushing back from the recovery from the surgery to correct it. But lots of this is on a case by case basis.