News Article: 'This core believes we're right there:'

[Gabriel426]

When it comes to ultra competitors on this Leafs team, people in the know seem to talk about Matthews being a guy who has that drive. Then it kind of falls off a bit into unknown territory. Has anyone ever said Marner, Nylander or even Tavares have a burning desire to win? Of course they say so in press conferences, but you wouldn't know it in a playoff series. I don't think you'd find a "Captain Serious" like a Jonathan Toews among them.

Well, Willie did showed up after losing to the Zamboni driver the next day.
I think it will be interesting to see what happens in the next season. As there is no more excuses and hopefully they learn from
this year disappointment.

 

[Stephen]

Should any GMs be at a position to give out 3 10mil+ contracts?

Personally, I think if Keefe can split those three up into three lines and let them elevate guys like Soup, Engvall, Robertson, Malgin, Petan or any players around 1mil cap hit into 3-4mil level players like AJ and Kap. Then having three 10mil plus players are not ideal but fine

I always found it very contradictory that the Toronto Maple Leafs invested nearly $11 million a year on Mitch Marner, and yet have never tried to put him with a scrub center and a junk winger to try and seed more offense like they've done with Matthews and even Nylander in the past. You'd think that wouldn't be a problem with a top five player in the game, elite playmaker, whatever.

 

[Gabriel426]

I always found it very contradictory that the Toronto Maple Leafs invested nearly $11 million a year on Mitch Marner, and yet have never tried to put him with a scrub center and a junk winger to try and seed more offense like they've done with Matthews and even Nylander in the past. You'd think that wouldn't be a problem with a top five player in the game, elite playmaker, whatever.

I find it puzzling but as long as the team was winning, don’t really care.
But this past season and the 5 games with BJs completely changed my mind.
For example, I would really like to see Robertson-Spezza-Marner on a line next season. Marner should be the driver of this line, Robertson the trigger boy and I can see Spezza scoring with his slap shot consistently just by following up the play after those two carried the puck into the attacking zone.

 

[mikeyz]

Zero have.

Exactly.

 

[Buds17]

Should any GMs be at a position to give out 3 10mil+ contracts?

Personally, I think if Keefe can split those three up into three lines and let them elevate guys like Soup, Engvall, Robertson, Malgin, Petan or any players around 1mil cap hit into 3-4mil level players like AJ and Kap. Then having three 10mil plus players are not ideal but fine

Marner (as the cheapest of the big 3 contracts) is more expensive than our entire third line should be combined. A third line with one of them on it is either not going to receive enough ice time to justify that player's salary, or it will just take time away from one of the top two lines. I'd worry it will just bring that player down rather than having him elevate others.

 

[The CyNick]

One of the largest mistakes Dubas made was handing the keys to the kingdom to matthews, marner and nylander before they had matured as hockey players mentally. You had guys like Kadri, Marleau, Hainsey, Polak and others who were vets and showed they cared every shift.

A lot of people thought some of Lou's rules were dumb, but what it did was teach young players to respect the team structure, and learn that their needs come second to the team. With him gone, you have these young guys running the room. They clearly have a cavalier attitude towards the type of effort it takes to win. Since they are the top players, that attitude permeates through the room regardless of who joins the team.

You can add all the Kyle Clifford's you want, but 4th liners don't change the room. You need the top guys to think grinding every night is important to winning at the end (learn from Boston's top guys). Shanny and Dubas created a country club culture where nobody is accountable for anything. That starts with Shanny and continues down with Dubas and Keefe.

The room looks like it's in need of a drastic shakeup. Problem it's the GM thinks we're headed in the right direction. Meanwhile the core is rotten.

 

[Menzinger]

Should any GMs be at a position to give out 3 10mil+ contracts?

Personally, I think if Keefe can split those three up into three lines and let them elevate guys like Soup, Engvall, Robertson, Malgin, Petan or any players around 1mil cap hit into 3-4mil level players like AJ and Kap. Then having three 10mil plus players are not ideal but fine

I don't think having too many good players is a bad thing.

It's not like the Leafs should have passed on drafting Marner because they realized they'd have to pay him a lot of money I.thd future.

Again, Dubas has opened himself up to criticisms but the fact is few GM's in rcent history have ever been in a similar position where they've been able to sign four players over a 2 year period like the leafs just were. I honestly can't think of a similar situation in the cap Era other than that early Pens team but even that isn't a perfect t comparison

 

[Gabriel426]

Marner (as the cheapest of the big 3 contracts) is more expensive than our entire third line should be combined. A third line with one of them on it is either not going to receive enough ice time to justify that player's salary, or it will just take time away from one of the top two lines. I'd worry it will just bring that player down rather than having him elevate others.

As long as the team win, I could careless how many mins these players are playing. Honestly, we only talk about mins play, PP time....when the team is losing, if the team is winning, that’s insignificant.

 

[Buds17]

As long as the team win, I could careless how many mins these players are playing. Honestly, we only talk about mins play, PP time....when the team is losing, if the team is winning, that’s insignificant.

No doubt about that. I just think the team is best off running combinations of Matthews/Tavares/Marner/Nylander on the top two lines until that's no longer a possibility.

 

[ruaware41]

we need ONE miracle. Like a surprise.

Like a hughes. Let's hope one of Sandin and Lilly can turn into absolute studs. I feel like it's possible. It, along with this team growing a pair, can turn the fortunes of this team around

 

[JayfromNB1219]

I don't think I agree. Leafs are much, much younger, especially when looking just at the cores of each team. I can understand calling out a bunch of 28-32 years olds, it feels less constructive to do the same to your 22 year olds. And to answer the question before it gets asked - yes, I do realize they all wanted to be paid like proven vets...

When those 22 year olds want to be paid (yes I know you've recognized this but still) like they're being paid then sorry to say but they have waived their "but I'm only 22" excuse both from the players (they haven't used this excuse) and from the fan base...If they weren't ready they shouldn't have bent the TML over like they did (yes partially Dubas's fault, but it also falls on the greedy players/agents as well) they aren't in a vacuum they know damn well what playing for the Maple Leafs entails along with the amount of second guessing our neurotic fan base routinely engages in...especially Marner who grew up a Leafs fan, dude had to know he was going to be absolutely blasted if he was anything less than majestic this season

 

[Trapper]

we need ONE miracle. Like a surprise.

Like a hughes. Let's hope one of Sandin and Lilly can turn into absolute studs. I feel like it's possible. It, along with this team growing a pair, can turn the fortunes of this team around

Or you know you could build a team that doesn’t need a miracle or loto 649.
A team of blue collar skill that works hard and makes their own success.

Maybe the next time Halley’s Comet comes by we will catch some magic.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner (as the cheapest of the big 3 contracts) is more expensive than our entire third line should be combined. A third line with one of them on it is either not going to receive enough ice time to justify that player's salary, or it will just take time away from one of the top two lines. I'd worry it will just bring that player down rather than having him elevate others.

The way it works is that Marner plays 10 minutes a game and the same people here point to the fact that he is only scoring 70 pts a year, or he gets 15, scores 90 and quality of competition gets brought up.
Nylander is inferior so he should get more minutes with better players. Willy doesnt score? No problem...zone entries are elite.
The greatest problem is that people today dont understand what a meritocracy is. There is no coach or gm in the league that would put Marner of the third line permanently.

 

[ruaware41]

Or you know you could build a team that doesn’t need a miracle or loto 649.
A team of blue collar skill that works hard and makes their own success.

Maybe the next time Halley’s Comet comes by we will catch some magic.

homie both me and probably you have tempered expectations at this point from this group.

On paper our team is good enough to win at least a few playoff rounds. On paper our players are no less skilled than Vancouver who started their rebuild after us. Our players grew up in the same cities, and came from the same systems as the other hockey players, not from Dalai Lama's very own 5 star temple, so there's no reason they shouldn't be able to match the intensity of other teams in the playoffs. Our players and their skill levels should be enough to have had us win a round or two and one of the past 4 years even been a surprise riser in the playoffs.

Yet our players refuse to play a game consistent with your 2nd sentence. I have been ranting about this for a while (my thread on adding Pietrangelo) and am on the exact same page as you. God knows why they aren't interested in playing like...EVERY other team tries to in the playoffs, regardless of player race, background, size, etc. Idk if it will ever happen.

 

[Blowfish]

Brandon is the issue for handing over NHL GM job to JHL GM. The NHL GMs must be loving it.

 

[Leafmealone11]

homie both me and probably you have tempered expectations at this point from this group.

On paper our team is good enough to win at least a few playoff rounds. On paper our players are no less skilled than Vancouver who started their rebuild after us. Our players grew up in the same cities, and came from the same systems as the other hockey players, not from Dalai Lama's very own 5 star temple, so there's no reason they shouldn't be able to match the intensity of other teams in the playoffs. Our players and their skill levels should be enough to have had us win a round or two and one of the past 4 years even been a surprise riser in the playoffs.

Yet our players refuse to play a game consistent with your 2nd sentence. I have been ranting about this for a while (my thread on adding Pietrangelo) and am on the exact same page as you. God knows why they aren't interested in playing like...EVERY other team tries to in the playoffs, regardless of player race, background, size, etc. Idk if it will ever happen.

Pitts washington and boston are all getting worse, two or three years from now toronto will be one of the top teams.

 

[ruaware41]

Pitts washington and boston are all getting worse, two or three years from now toronto will be one of the top teams.

this implies that teams that are where Toronto is at now in terms of playoff success or below them won't usurp them or continue to stay ahead or get better.

 

[thusk]

Leafs didn't lost to columbus because any kind of attitude, mindset of whatever you want. Toronto lost because his defence are awful.

Did you see rielly or any def joining leafs attack or trying to do something offensivly until leafs trailing late in the third? No they didn't because they can't with partner caliber of ceci or barrie or Holl(against top line). So every dman stay close to the blueline, taking absolutly no risk and just dump the puck behind the net every time they touch the puck. That's was a huge problem

So if you playing 3 vs 5 all game long because your playing with only 2 top 4 dman (with one injured) and a bunch of 5-6-7-8th dman, it is normal than leafs fowards didn't look pretty good?

 

[m1ker]

The way it works is that Marner plays 10 minutes a game and the same people here point to the fact that he is only scoring 70 pts a year, or he gets 15, scores 90 and quality of competition gets brought up.
Nylander is inferior so he should get more minutes with better players. Willy doesnt score? No problem...zone entries are elite.
The greatest problem is that people today dont understand what a meritocracy is. There is no coach or gm in the league that would put Marner of the third line permanently.

Cassidy's go to last year was pasta on the 3rd line, no?

 

[Trapper]

Leafs didn't lost to columbus because any kind of attitude, mindset of whatever you want. Toronto lost because his defence are awful.

Did you see rielly or any def joining leafs attack or trying to do something offensivly until leafs trailing late in the third? No they didn't because they can't with partner caliber of ceci or barrie or Holl(against top line). So every dman stay close to the blueline, taking absolutly no risk and just dump the puck behind the net every time they touch the puck. That's was a huge problem

So if you playing 3 vs 5 all game long because your playing with only 2 top 4 dman (with one injured) and a bunch of 5-6-7-8th dman, it is normal than leafs fowards didn't look pretty good?

Matthews/JT/Marner/Nylander/Rielly.
I don’t trust the core, and I don’t trust the build.
There is no anger, no pushback, meanness, desperation to them.

We got shut out 2 games. Who crashed Korpisalo? Where was the 1st, 2nd, 3rd whacks on the goalie. The crease pushing? Who was giving Seth Jones subtle little jabs as punishment for being on the ice against Matthews? Where was the dump into Werenski’s corner cause he was clearly hurt? Just let him skate out of the zone like it’s practice.
Where was the heavy forecheck/getting down lower consistently since the goalie was stopping everything from the hash marks out. The little jabs going to the bench?

You have to respect Matthews and JT can score, but you don’t have to respect the Leafs. They don’t make it hard to play them. Jason Spezza had to fight. Brutal.

 

[robertmac43]

Who crashed Korpisalo? Where was the 1st, 2nd, 3rd whacks on the goalie. The crease pushing?

What would this have gotten us ? A 2 minute minor ? 5 more goals? More push back against Freddie?

What is the end goal?

 

[Stephen]

This JJ Reddick interview has some interesting insights on team chemistry going sour and being unable to get over the hump against a rival from his time with the LA Clippes, who were once a team of the future with some of the brightest stars in the game. Also talks about the league changing and the team being unable to evolve. Interesting lessons to be learned.

 

[Trapper]

What would this have gotten us ? A 2 minute minor ? 5 more goals? More push back against Freddie?

What is the end goal?

Have you watched Tampa/Boston? The other series.

You’re right though. We probably would have lost the series if we tried. Better to concede until we face an opponent who is in awe of us.

 

[robertmac43]

Have you watched Tampa/Boston? The other series.

You’re right though. We probably would have lost the series if we tried. Better to concede until we face an opponent who is in awe of us.

There are many more ways to show you are trying than simply 'crashing and whacking' the opposition goalie...

 

[Stephen]

Have you watched Tampa/Boston? The other series.

You’re right though. We probably would have lost the series if we tried. Better to concede until we face an opponent who is in awe of us.

You'd think the Leafs would have learned some playoff tricks playing Boston 2x and Washington once.