Therrien - The Offseason Edition

[Lafleurs Guy]

Continue the beatings here...

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[hockeyfan2k11]

The most disappointing thing of all is watching the supporters try their best to downplay Babcock as a coach and prop MT up at the same time. Complete madness.

 

[Odelein24]

Has MT made a public appearance since the end of the season? I feel like I would have seen that discussed here already.

 

[Mathletic]

The most disappointing thing of all is watching the supporters try their best to downplay Babcock as a coach and prop MT up at the same time. Complete madness.

Well people's main arguments to show that Therrien is a bad coach is the PP and 5on5 scoring. Two things Habs have been as good as Detroit over the last 3 years. Detroit might have a better PP% but the odd thing is that the Habs have a better GF%. Meaning Detroit play a much more aggressive system. Sometimes using 4 or 5 forwards on their PP. Although it leads to more GF, it also leads to more GA. When you look at the big picture, you see the Habs aren't that much worse off. Not to mention that they've ran a better PK (even factoring out CP's numbers).

Also, for the last 3 seasons, Habs have generated much more offense with the score tied or with the lead than the Wings. Two parts of the game that would lead me to think DA systam hampers the players from generating any offense. Yet, Therrien's system may actually be more conductive to offense than Babcock's system using those numbers.

 

[BLONG7]

Has MT made a public appearance since the end of the season? I feel like I would have seen that discussed here already.

Don't think he did, which is strange...MB took the media on about questionable coaching decisions...I guess? Does anyone know for certain, MT did or didn't meet with the media?

 

[BLONG7]

The most disappointing thing of all is watching the supporters try their best to downplay Babcock as a coach and prop MT up at the same time. Complete madness.

This group must have been led by DD and the Cube?

LeBabs is a good coach, but he may need a small miracle in Toronto, but honestly Randy Carlyle had those guys in a playoff position, but got fired?? Go figure...

 

[bobholly39]

The most disappointing thing of all is watching the supporters try their best to downplay Babcock as a coach and prop MT up at the same time. Complete madness.

I still have a lot of trouble with Michel Therrien critics.

He inherited a team that was 28th in the league.

Year 1 - 1st in division

Year 2 - Eastern Conference Final (could have gone further maybe barring injury to Price)

Year 3 - 2 points out of President Trophy. Overall strong showing in playoffs (could have been better, but the 0-3 deficit against Tampa was killer, and quite unlucky as we didn't play bad but didn't get the bounces in first few games)


What's there to criticize? The team under Martin was extremely "so-so" at best. The team under Therrien is elite. Isn't winning what matters? Clearly, he is winning.

You can of course criticize individual decisions, and want him to do certain things different - but to claim he's a horrible coach just sounds ludicrous to me.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Well people's main arguments to show that Therrien is a bad coach is the PP and 5on5 scoring. Two things Habs have been as good as Detroit over the last 3 years. Detroit might have a better PP% but the odd thing is that the Habs have a better GF%. Meaning Detroit play a much more aggressive system. Sometimes using 4 or 5 forwards on their PP. Although it leads to more GF, it also leads to more GA. When you look at the big picture, you see the Habs aren't that much worse off. Not to mention that they've ran a better PK (even factoring out CP's numbers).

Also, for the last 3 seasons, Habs have generated much more offense with the score tied or with the lead than the Wings. Two parts of the game that would lead me to think DA systam hampers the players from generating any offense. Yet, Therrien's system may actually be more conductive to offense than Babcock's system using those numbers.

People forget that:

a) Detroit does not have the horses the Habs do.
b) Detroit was playing their 2nd string goalie for much of the season
c) Detroit had many injuries to core players
d) Babcock has been there for 10 years. 10 playoff appearances. Do you think MT can get a team to 10 straight palyoff appearances?
I figure in your 10th year as a coach it gets even harder to get through to players. MT is already feeling that and he's been coach for 3 seasons.

I personally do not see Habs making the playoffs next year if Price puts up his career averages and no changes are made. I just don't see it. The team's play is not sustainable as it is.

Price has carried MT the last 2 seasons. How does MT do with Detroit's roster this past year? He doesn't sniff the playoffs IMO. Is Babcock a god? No. But he's a top flight coach. Top of the top. MT is not by any stretch.

What bothers me most about MT is he sat on his arse when he was out of a coaching job. Boucher, Crawford, Roy all coached somewhere else. MT's arrogance is astounding. He had a lot to work on and it seems he hasn't worked on anything. He's the same guy making the same mistakes having the same impact as he did in the past.

The guy's ego is on another level.


About your point "he inherited a team that was 28th in the league". Cmon man. That's something my mother would say. I expect more from you. You truly believe a team that 2 year sprior got to the conference finals and the year prior to that took the stanley cup champs to the brink of elimination was a 28th place team? A team completely destroyed with injuries and a GM who traded a player mid-game?

 

[Hullois]

I still have a lot of trouble with Michel Therrien critics.

He inherited a team that was 28th in the league.

Year 1 - 1st in division

Year 2 - Eastern Conference Final (could have gone further maybe barring injury to Price)

Year 3 - 2 points out of President Trophy. Overall strong showing in playoffs (could have been better, but the 0-3 deficit against Tampa was killer, and quite unlucky as we didn't play bad but didn't get the bounces in first few games)


What's there to criticize? The team under Martin was extremely "so-so" at best. The team under Therrien is elite. Isn't winning what matters? Clearly, he is winning.

You can of course criticize individual decisions, and want him to do certain things different - but to claim he's a horrible coach just sounds ludicrous to me.

Dear god, how dare you post anything short of "Therrien is the dumbest coach that ever walked on this earth!". Be prepared for two or three pages of people telling you how much of an idiot he is, and how you don't know anything about hockey if you don't see it.

 

[la25ecoupe]

People forget that:

a) Detroit does not have the horses the Habs do.
b) Detroit was playing their 2nd string goalie for much of the season
c) Detroit had many injuries to core players
d) Babcock has been there for 10 years. 10 playoff appearances. Do you think MT can get a team to 10 straight palyoff appearances?
I figure in your 10th year as a coach it gets even harder to get through to players. MT is already feeling that and he's been coach for 3 seasons.

I personally do not see Habs making the playoffs next year if Price puts up his career averages and no changes are made. I just don't see it. The team's play is not sustainable as it is.

I have more problems with the way he uses/develop players than the wins.

It's just frustrating seeing Subban, Galchenyuk, Eller under MT.

 

[OnTheRun]

Well people's main arguments to show that Therrien is a bad coach is the PP and 5on5 scoring. Two things Habs have been as good as Detroit over the last 3 years. Detroit might have a better PP% but the odd thing is that the Habs have a better GF%. Meaning Detroit play a much more aggressive system. Sometimes using 4 or 5 forwards on their PP. Although it leads to more GF, it also leads to more GA. When you look at the big picture, you see the Habs aren't that much worse off. Not to mention that they've ran a better PK (even factoring out CP's numbers).

Also, for the last 3 seasons, Habs have generated much more offense with the score tied or with the lead than the Wings. Two parts of the game that would lead me to think DA systam hampers the players from generating any offense. Yet, Therrien's system may actually be more conductive to offense than Babcock's system using those numbers.

Once again you are coming back with the "last 3 years".

2012-13, the season where we didn't play DA SYSTEM, is seriously skewing our offensive numbers (5th 5v5 GF60 + GF60 Trailing + GF60 Tied and 8th GF60 Leading).

Under DA SYSTEM [2 years] we are: 11th GF60 Leading, 25th GF60 Trailing, 20th GF60 Tied and 25th GF60.
That's some serious regression here bro.

 

[Monctonscout]

I still have a lot of trouble with Michel Therrien critics.

He inherited a team that was 28th in the league.

Year 1 - 1st in division

Year 2 - Eastern Conference Final (could have gone further maybe barring injury to Price)

Year 3 - 2 points out of President Trophy. Overall strong showing in playoffs (could have been better, but the 0-3 deficit against Tampa was killer, and quite unlucky as we didn't play bad but didn't get the bounces in first few games)


What's there to criticize? The team under Martin was extremely "so-so" at best. The team under Therrien is elite. Isn't winning what matters? Clearly, he is winning.

You can of course criticize individual decisions, and want him to do certain things different - but to claim he's a horrible coach just sounds ludicrous to me.

It also sounds ludicrous to most Habs fans...but you have a small group in here that think in a warped way and don't subscribe to logic. If you don't agree with them then you must be wrong...

 

[Mathletic]

People forget that:

a) Detroit does not have the horses the Habs do.
b) Detroit was playing their 2nd string goalie for much of the season
c) Detroit had many injuries to core players
d) Babcock has been there for 10 years. 10 playoff appearances. Do you think MT can get a team to 10 straight palyoff appearances?
I figure in your 10th year as a coach it gets even harder to get through to players. MT is already feeling that and he's been coach for 3 seasons.

I personally do not see Habs making the playoffs next year if Price puts up his career averages and no changes are made. I just don't see it. The team's play is not sustainable as it is.

First of all, none of the numbers I put forward included the goalie. When I did, I tried to remove the impact of the goalie as much as possible. So, the point about Detroit's goalies is moote. Besides, that also takes away the Habs' best player from the numbers for 160+ games. If the Habs wouldn't have picked Price in '05 and picked Kopitar instead, Therrien wouldn't be a better coach but would have much stronger team numbers.

Also, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are pretty good horses. Especially when it comes to runing a PP. Habs don't have these kind of playmakers and wizard with the pucks the Wings have eihter.

and your post pretty much sums up my idea in that coaches count for very little. Players do the vast majority of the work. Too much blame on Therrien as most of it comes down to the players in the lineup.

 

[optimus2861]

Well people's main arguments to show that Therrien is a bad coach is the PP and 5on5 scoring. Two things Habs have been as good as Detroit over the last 3 years. Detroit might have a better PP% but the odd thing is that the Habs have a better GF%.

GF% is influenced by Price's Hart-calibre play, surely you understand that.

As for this comment you made in the previous thread:

Over this big a sample (3000+ minutes) goals are better predictors of goals than shots are

I don't believe that's entirely true. Team shooting percentage doesn't tend to be consistent from season to season. Here are our last 5 years at 5-on-5, all score situations:

14/15 7.93
13/14 7.44
12/13 8.86
11/12 8.15
10/11 6.77

There's no trend nor consistency here.

Sheesh, look at the Blackhawks in the last five years. Nobody would argue they have trouble scoring goals, yet they had an unusually poor shooting year this year:

14/15 6.87
13/14 8.43
12/13 8.97
11/12 8.07
10/11 8.01

 

[BLONG7]

The one thing most forget at times on this board, we are expressing opinions...not everyone will agree.....there has been info posted to state why people think MT is a good coach, not alot mind you....and people post info stating he is not a good coach....then sides get taken...no biggie...

He couldn't win a Cup with the Pens, and as soon as he was gone, they won...do you honestly think he can help us win a Cup with the Habs...I don't, but I honestly hope I am wrong...

 

[AnotherHabsFan]

If Tampa beats us to the next cup I will be a little upset. They won it not too long ago and since then they have tanked and started anew. What have we been doing all this time?

 

[Sorinth]

Well people's main arguments to show that Therrien is a bad coach is the PP and 5on5 scoring. Two things Habs have been as good as Detroit over the last 3 years. Detroit might have a better PP% but the odd thing is that the Habs have a better GF%. Meaning Detroit play a much more aggressive system. Sometimes using 4 or 5 forwards on their PP. Although it leads to more GF, it also leads to more GA. When you look at the big picture, you see the Habs aren't that much worse off. Not to mention that they've ran a better PK (even factoring out CP's numbers).

Also, for the last 3 seasons, Habs have generated much more offense with the score tied or with the lead than the Wings. Two parts of the game that would lead me to think DA systam hampers the players from generating any offense. Yet, Therrien's system may actually be more conductive to offense than Babcock's system using those numbers.

Over the past three years Detroit gave up 8.0 shots against per 60 minutes of PP time (11th in the league). We gave up 9.5 (23rd in the league). Maybe the fact that we have less GA on the PP is because Price stops those chances.

Proving once again that we are at the bottom of the league in almost every stat that isn't influenced by the goaltender.

 

[void]

I hate him so much.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

This group must have been led by DD and the Cube?

LeBabs is a good coach, but he may need a small miracle in Toronto, but honestly Randy Carlyle had those guys in a playoff position, but got fired?? Go figure...

I don't think it will be that bad. Toronto still has some talented pieces. You won't see any lazy play on that team anymore.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I have more problems with the way he uses/develop players than the wins.

It's just frustrating seeing Subban, Galchenyuk, Eller under MT.

Oh, that's a huge issue as well. I couldn't write everything.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The most disappointing thing of all is watching the supporters try their best to downplay Babcock as a coach and prop MT up at the same time. Complete madness.

Dear god, how dare you post anything short of "Therrien is the dumbest coach that ever walked on this earth!". Be prepared for two or three pages of people telling you how much of an idiot he is, and how you don't know anything about hockey if you don't see it.

It also sounds ludicrous to most Habs fans...but you have a small group in here that think in a warped way and don't subscribe to logic. If you don't agree with them then you must be wrong...

Folks there is way too much talking in terms of fanboy vs haters here... make your points without the generalizations. You've been warned before, please don't make generalized flames here.

Consider yourselves warned.

 

[AnotherHabsFan]

Year 1 - 1st in division

Year 2 - Eastern Conference Final (could have gone further maybe barring injury to Price)

Year 3 - 2 points out of President Trophy. Overall strong showing in playoffs (could have been better, but the 0-3 deficit against Tampa was killer, and quite unlucky as we didn't play bad but didn't get the bounces in first few games)

It is true that the record has consistently improved over the last few years (besides playoff length), but how much of that is due to our core players maturing and learning from the previous years? I for one think MT is an OK coach, but he has his flaws and I personally don't think we will get to the next level (dominant play, possession numbers and the Cup) until we hire a better coach and land a few talented players through trades.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

First of all, none of the numbers I put forward included the goalie. When I did, I tried to remove the impact of the goalie as much as possible. So, the point about Detroit's goalies is moote. Besides, that also takes away the Habs' best player from the numbers for 160+ games. If the Habs wouldn't have picked Price in '05 and picked Kopitar instead, Therrien wouldn't be a better coach but would have much stronger team numbers.

Also, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are pretty good horses. Especially when it comes to runing a PP. Habs don't have these kind of playmakers and wizard with the pucks the Wings have eihter.

and your post pretty much sums up my idea in that coaches count for very little. Players do the vast majority of the work. Too much blame on Therrien as most of it comes down to the players in the lineup.

2 players?

Datsyuk played 63 games, 45 last year, 47 the year before.
Zetterberg played 77 games, then 45 and 46.

C'mon man...have you actually looked at Detroit's roster the last few years?

 

[habsterr]

Therrien is an average coach with a good group of players that were very healthy. The second round exit is to be expected until the GM decides to improve on one or both fronts.

 

[Team_Spirit]

There is no rivalry, it's not like they (TampaBay) are in our division.

But but Da Record?!

recent picture of MT and Carey Price :