Therrien Part IV - This Time, It's Personal...

[Hoople]

*plays Jeopardy music*

Yes one line trolls.

Stop posting if you only wanna sing around a camp fire.

Things arent perfect with the team, the board is to discuss them as well as cheer for it.

You can do both. What kills the board is sarcastic remarks. Your response was perfect description of a snide remark bringing zero value

Thanks to Kirk Muller for trying to improve the conversation here.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

By buying the refs if you ask Bruins fans.

ISWYDT!!! You guys are too much!!

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Thanks to Kirk Muller for trying to improve the conversation here.

Agreed.

Oh, while you're here, do the Habs have a good roster in your opinion?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I don't think they dump the puck in because it's the first option, some players are better at carrying it in and do so more frequently than others. The team plays dump and chase at times, and other times they don't.

I think we lack fire power up front, so the coach plays what he feels is working. I'd love nothing more than to outplay our opponents every night, but I don't believe we have the talent level to do it. Does he make all the good choices and deserve all the success for the club, of course not, I just don't buy the argument that he is in the way. In the way of what? 130 point seasons?

The PK is tops, the team fights from behind and is never out of a game. Every coach has strengths and weaknesses, collectively they balance out imo, the roster makes the difference.

He dresses players in positions that I don't like and makes all sorts of roster choices I don't agree with, but so does every coach who has ever coached.

I don't think he and or his system are hindrance to our performance.

...thank you for sharing your opinion on the matter without the usual arguing match that tends to devolve in this discussion; I disagree, however I appreciate your view...

 

[habsfanatics*]

LOL, I hear you brother, I hear you!! But I'd really like to hear your opinion directly, you know?



LOL!! Touche man, touche!! Great comment, and I hate to be that guy, but I'd really like an actual, you know, answer; Therrien isn't a great coach, so how are we winning games?

I don't think any coaches are great, so why are any teams ever at the top of the league, pretty simple, they win more games.

Why don't you cut to the chase here instead of playing your games. I think the habs have a pretty good team that lacks serious firepower upfront. That is it.

Spin as you like.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I don't think they dump the puck in because it's the first option, some players are better at carrying it in and do so more frequently than others. The team plays dump and chase at times, and other times they don't.

I think we lack fire power up front, so the coach plays what he feels is working. I'd love nothing more than to outplay our opponents every night, but I don't believe we have the talent level to do it. Does he make all the good choices and deserve all the success for the club, of course not, I just don't buy the argument that he is in the way. In the way of what? 130 point seasons?

The PK is tops, the team fights from behind and is never out of a game. Every coach has strengths and weaknesses, collectively they balance out imo, the roster makes the difference.

He dresses players in positions that I don't like and makes all sorts of roster choices I don't agree with, but so does every coach who has ever coached.

I don't think he and or his system are hindrance to our performance.

So you think our forwards are less offensively talented than those of Winnipeg, Ottawa, and Toronto?

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I don't think any coaches are great, so why are any teams ever at the top of the league, pretty simple, they win more games.

Why don't you cut to the chase here instead of playing your games. I think the habs have a pretty good team that lacks serious firepower upfront. That is it.

Spin as you like.

To be fair, I can't "spin" an intangible...we win more games, but why?

You say Therrien isn't a great coach.

You say the Habs lack serious firepower.

So how are we winning games, exactly?

 

[Kriss E]

No opinion needed. Here are the raw stats in order as I listed them for Habs forwards.

De la Rose - Points - 1 - Ranking - 670
Sekac - P - 16 - R - 304
Thomas - P - 1 - R - 670
Andrighetto - P - 3 - 607
Bournival - P - 3 - 607
Malhotra - P - 1 - R - 670
Prust - P - 13 - R - 351
Desharnais - P - 32 - R - 105
Eller - P - 16 - R - 304
Weise - P - 22 - R - 217
Parenteau - P - 15 - R - 316

Looking at NHL.com, there are 731 players in the NHL who have scored at least one point. The Habs have 3 of them on the roster (1 point scored).

439 players have 10 or more points for the season.

But to your point, I might have made a mistake. Desharnais is definitely ABOVE average and so is Weise. Thanks for allowing me to clear that up.

When I was 10, I use to grab the newspaper and read the hockey stats while my mom drove my brother and myself to school. I used to look at who is #1 in pts and think he was the best in the NHL. #2 was 2nd, #3 was 3rd, etc...
That is essentially what you're doing now.

How many points Prust or Weise, Maholtra, or most of these role players is pretty irrelevant.

 

[habsfanatics*]

...thank you for sharing your opinion on the matter without the usual arguing match that tends to devolve in this discussion; I disagree, however I appreciate your view...

Hey, I don't think our team is bad, never once did I say that and maybe the numbers would be better under a different coach, ie corsi etc. The coach is responsible for implementing a system, the players are responsible for executing it. The share of the blame goes both ways.

Quick question, when we do out-corsi teams and dominate them, is it MT changing the system for that particular game, or the players executing his system, or ignoring it altogether?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

To be fair, I can't "spin" an intangible...we win more games, but why?

You say Therrien isn't a great coach.

You say the Habs lack serious firepower.

So how are we winning games, exactly?

...why is it soo important for you to hear "Carey Price"??...you know that's the reason, so do we, why play this game??...

 

[habsfanatics*]

...why is it soo important for you to hear "Carey Price"??...you know that's the reason, so do we, why play this game??...

Carey Price is a huge reason, of course, I've never denied this, but to think a single player is solely responsible for all the teams success is a little naive, no?

Sure he keeps us in games, especially early on, but it's the players on the ice that have been fighting back and winning the games too.

We've struggled in 1st periods, for whatever reason, Carey has bailed us out, but the players have shown resiliency to fight back.

What's our corsi in 2nd and 3rd periods, just curious?

 

[Hoople]

My comment was directed at how you essentially described our team as avg-below avg outside a handful of players, I think the majority of our guys are good or better at their role, which isn't something you mentioned.

We have a pretty good team, but we aren't playing well. That is the point most are making here. That's why they point to the many different stats that are usually indicative of struggling or average teams. They're red flags.

I will agree that it isn't all bad. Therrien definitely put in a good mind set of perseverance and work ethic.

We are playing well though. That's the disconnect among some Therrien bashers.

We have the lowest GA in the League. More importantly, we have a +25 in goal differentials. The only teams with a higher goal differential are Tampa Bay (Stamkos #6 for goals scored), NY Rangers (Nash #1 for goals scored), Nashville (probably the best defensive team in the NHL), St. Louis (Tarasenko #5 for goals scored) and Chicago (Kane #7 for goals scored).

For perspective, look at the list of recent Stanley Cup winners.

2014 - Kings - GA - 1st
2013 - Blackhawks - GA - 1st
2012 - Kings - GA - 2nd
2011 - Bruin - GA - 2nd

The Habs are playing well as a team.

 

[habsfanatics*]

...why is it soo important for you to hear "Carey Price"??...you know that's the reason, so do we, why play this game??...

You said you were happy to hear my opinion and then take a parting shot afterwards. It's all good bro.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Hey, I don't think our team is bad, never once did I say that and maybe the numbers would be better under a different coach, ie corsi etc. The coach is responsible for implementing a system, the players are responsible for executing it. The share of the blame goes both ways.

Quick question, when we do out-corsi teams and dominate them, is it MT changing the system for that particular game, or the players executing his system, or ignoring it altogether?

...in my opinion, during the regular season, the players are taking advantage of a weakness in the opponent that they notice and exploiting it (yes, they are not "playing the system")...in the playoffs last year, Therrien himself changed his system to take advantage of our speed/quickness/forecheck...so we actually have the ability to play a more up-tempo/possession/transition game that better fits our roster, Therrien just seems that he doesn't want the team to play that way until they absolutely have to...which is very curious, wouldn't you agree??...

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

You said you were happy to hear my opinion and then take a parting shot afterwards. It's all good bro.

...I said that to Winter Eclipse, not you...how is that taking a parting shot at you??...

 

[Hoople]

Agreed.

Oh, while you're here, do the Habs have a good roster in your opinion?

There are a few posts here that I recently made regarding that subject. All you have to do is scroll and find them.

 

[habsfanatics*]

...in my opinion, during the regular season, the players are taking advantage of a weakness in the opponent that they notice and exploiting it (yes, they are not "playing the system")...in the playoffs last year, Therrien himself changed his system to take advantage of our speed/quickness/forecheck...so we actually have the ability to play a more up-tempo/possession/transition game that better fits our roster, Therrien just seems that he doesn't want the team to play that way until they absolutely have to...which is very curious, wouldn't you agree??...

It would be curious if I agreed with it, but you honestly think the team is abandoning the coach here all on their own free-will? You don't think stubborn Therrien would try to lay the hammer down at some point? You don't think the GM and coach would discuss this and see it as a problem, either MB saying, "Hey, if the players don't listen to the coach" maybe we should get a different coach. I dunno dude.

 

[habsfanatics*]

...I said that to Winter Eclipse, not you...how is that taking a parting shot at you??...

You seemed to insinuate that I didn't want to credit the best goalie in the league, nothing could be further from the truth. He's been outstanding.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

We are playing well though. That's the disconnect among some Therrien bashers.

We have the lowest GA in the League. More importantly, we have a +25 in goal differentials. The only teams with a higher goal differential are Tampa Bay (Stamkos #6 for goals scored), NY Rangers (Nash #1 for goals scored), Nashville (probably the best defensive team in the NHL), St. Louis (Tarasenko #5 for goals scored) and Chicago (Kane #7 for goals scored).

For perspective, look at the list of recent Stanley Cup winners.

2014 - Kings - GA - 1st
2013 - Blackhawks - GA - 1st
2012 - Kings - GA - 2nd
2011 - Bruin - GA - 2nd

The Habs are playing well as a team.

...the GA of this team isn't the stat you want to use when talking team, unless you want a plethora of people bringing up we're Bottom 1/3 in shots against...just saying...

 

[Hoople]

When I was 10, I use to grab the newspaper and read the hockey stats while my mom drove my brother and myself to school. I used to look at who is #1 in pts and think he was the best in the NHL. #2 was 2nd, #3 was 3rd, etc...
That is essentially what you're doing now.

How many points Prust or Weise, Maholtra, or most of these role players is pretty irrelevant.

When you started your post with "When I was 10.....", I stopped reading there.

Thank you for at least trying to engage in a discussion a couple of posts ago before devolving into an insult.


To anyone else who read my post for what it was, it was an explanation that the Habs have a lot of average/below average (take your pick) players who do play a role.......and a very important role......for the Habs.

And the reason I took that approach was to address the "lack of scoring" by the Habs and the blame being assigned to Therrien.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

...why is it soo important for you to hear "Carey Price"??...you know that's the reason, so do we, why play this game??...

I've been told MT is a big part of our success, I'm merely attempting to get a fully developed reason why.

 

[Kriss E]

We are playing well though. That's the disconnect among some Therrien bashers.

We have the lowest GA in the League. More importantly, we have a +25 in goal differentials. The only teams with a higher goal differential are Tampa Bay (Stamkos #6 for goals scored), NY Rangers (Nash #1 for goals scored), Nashville (probably the best defensive team in the NHL), St. Louis (Tarasenko #5 for goals scored) and Chicago (Kane #7 for goals scored).

For perspective, look at the list of recent Stanley Cup winners.

2014 - Kings - GA - 1st
2013 - Blackhawks - GA - 1st
2012 - Kings - GA - 2nd
2011 - Bruin - GA - 2nd

The Habs are playing well as a team.

When you actually watch the games attentively, do you come out believing we played well? Because I don't more often than not.
So how does the eye test work for you?

After that, you need to scratch further than just the surface. Are we allowing a few goals because we're playing well, limiting our opposition to lower amount of shots and chances? Limiting them to possession? Or is it because our goalie is playing like a Hart and Vezina candidate?

 

[Winter Eclipse]

There are a few posts here that I recently made regarding that subject. All you have to do is scroll and find them.

I couldn't find them! Could you summarize them SVP?

 

[No More Subban]

We are playing well though. That's the disconnect among some Therrien bashers.

We have the lowest GA in the League. More importantly, we have a +25 in goal differentials. The only teams with a higher goal differential are Tampa Bay (Stamkos #6 for goals scored), NY Rangers (Nash #1 for goals scored), Nashville (probably the best defensive team in the NHL), St. Louis (Tarasenko #5 for goals scored) and Chicago (Kane #7 for goals scored).

For perspective, look at the list of recent Stanley Cup winners.

2014 - Kings - GA - 1st
2013 - Blackhawks - GA - 1st
2012 - Kings - GA - 2nd
2011 - Bruin - GA - 2nd

The Habs are playing well as a team.

I don't know, man.

I still think it's all Carey Price.

When was the last time the team bailed out Price when he was playing bad?

I'm pretty sure when he has a bad night, we lose.

 

[habsfanatics*]

When you actually watch the games attentively, do you come out believing we played well? Because I don't more often than not.
So how does the eye test work for you?

After that, you need to scratch further than just the surface. Are we allowing a few goals because we're playing well, limiting our opposition to lower amount of shots and chances? Limiting them to possession? Or is it because our goalie is playing like a Hart and Vezina candidate?

The underlying numbers seem to improving slightly as of late. I'm not sure why it can't be both. Of course Carey has been lights out, but no single player is capable of carrying a team for 2.5 years by himself.