Confirmed with Link: The Zaitsev era has ended. Traded to Chicago.

[DaveMatthew]

2nd round picks are absolutely the best asset to use to bring in pieces. Teams love them, because they can take swings on guys they have ranked higher without the pressure of being in the 1st round, to get guys like Pinto, Formenton and Ostapchuk, and you're still expected to get a very good prospect or player.

We have struggled, to put it lightly, with our trading of 2nds. We have not succeeded trading them away at all, with the possible exception of using one to trade up for Soogard.

We've hoarded 2nd round picks. We've drafted 8 players in the last 4 drafts with 2nds. We haven't been trading them away.

The last draft in which we didn't have a 2nd was 2013.

I'd argue that we value keeping 2nd round picks too much.

 

[BondraTime]

We've hoarded 2nd round picks. We've drafted 8 players in the last 4 drafts with 2nds. We haven't been trading them away.

We have hoarded them, as tends to happen during full rebuilds. When we have moved them, it's been disastrous.

Under Dorion's tenure we have traded away 2nd's 4 times (outside of trading up and trading back tow trade ups and one trade back for Kleven, Soogard, and Roger). Every time it was disastrous. Like you said, trading a 2nd should get you a servicable player for 2-4 years, every year they are traded for. It has resulted in extremely negative results each time, with some reasons obvious. Trading away 3 2nd round picks away in less than 2.25 calendar years is a lot, especially when you have nothing to show for them on the team.

Did we need to hoard those picks for another prospect? No. We could have used them to bring in any number of guys who were moved for that price.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Sure, the Hamonic/Brown deals are a wash. We still traded Murray, Zaitsev a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th for future considerations + the 37th overall pick for 20 games of Derek Stepan. That’s pretty much an entire draft class completely wasted - I wouldn’t call that minor moves.

Yes, I see two seconds and a few later picks. Again, not a single high end asset in there lost. Yup, a bunch of minor moves.

As mentioned repeatedly, your lists doesn't mention the picks we replaced those lost picks with. Nor does it deal with the realities of having to ice a hockey team for several years.

Whatever, at this point the desire to hate PD has taken on a life of its own, and has little to do with the exciting, young up and coming team on the ice that he has put together.

 

[JD1]

Yes, what difference does that make? 30th, 23rd, 26th, and he's not here anymore. What the Sens have to show for it is the 2024 2nd.

What did the 3 years of Brown do for the Sens?

Duchene was here for 118 games, that was completely inconsequential as well.

I gotta say, you're typically much better than this

 

[Cosmix]

With what assets? There are none left. Nothing in the pipeline. Burning picks like they don't matter. Why do you think they were unable to trade for a top 4 d. They have no assets. 6 years finishing out of the playoffs and one of the worst prospect pools in hockey. Because of this clown. I won't be renewing my tickets if Dorions back. Hopefully new owensership is paying attention. What a loser. Set this franchise into loser territory for a decade.

Norris out, Forsberg out, team has a negative goal differential sitting 4th last in the conference and they are burning top 40 picks to get rid of a player when the price will absolutely go down in the offseason.

Look how many buy outs and retention this team has right now. There is 5 players... plus more picks given away to unload Zaitsev. Why is Dorion allowed to make these moves. What a mickey mouse operation.

By spending more futures (1st round picks) to get established players for the next 4 seasons.

 

[Loach]

Ooooohhhhh. This is the first time in his NHL career that DJ won't be coaching Zaitsev. What if he plays well all of a sudden? Lmfao!

 

[Ice-Tray]

With what assets? There are none left. Nothing in the pipeline. Burning picks like they don't matter. Why do you think they were unable to trade for a top 4 d. They have no assets. 6 years finishing out of the playoffs and one of the worst prospect pools in hockey. Because of this clown. I won't be renewing my tickets if Dorions back. Hopefully new owensership is paying attention. What a loser. Set this franchise into loser territory for a decade.

Norris out, Forsberg out, team has a negative goal differential sitting 4th last in the conference and they are burning top 40 picks to get rid of a player when the price will absolutely go down in the offseason.

Look how many buy outs and retention this team has right now. There is 5 players... plus more picks given away to unload Zaitsev. Why is Dorion allowed to make these moves. What a mickey mouse operation.

Lol, trade a 2nd to clear cap space before the deadline and we’re back to this again.

 

[Sting]

We've hoarded 2nd round picks. We've drafted 8 players in the last 4 drafts with 2nds. We haven't been trading them away.

The last draft in which we didn't have a 2nd was 2013.

I'd argue that we value keeping 2nd round picks too much.

The problem of course is what we choose to spend those 2nd round picks on.

Never forget Pierre has handed these things out like candy. We gave one to Arizona for 20 games of a washed up Derek Stepan.

Meanwhile top 4 dmen get traded for 2nds. Adam Fox. Sam Girard.

The problem is the GM.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Ooooohhhhh. This is the first time in his NHL career that DJ won't be coaching Zaitsev. What if he plays well all of a sudden? Lmfao!

BREAKING NEWS

Ottawa Senators move from bottom to top of league in D stats.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We should also try and remember that we have two eras with this rebuild.

The EM era with all the constraints that came with it, and the current era, that seems to come with a much higher budget and little micromanaging.

Very different times. Personally I think we’re humming along quite nicely right now.

 

[HSF]

I agree but there were lots of folks on this board that praised Dorian for trading for Murray and re-signing him.

Sure but Dorion is the GM and should be evaluated based on moves like that

 

[Big Muddy]

Could have done this at any time. Including the summer. Very obvious he is desperate to clear space right now


Needs the cap space right now

Well, this line of thinking or theory is that we are competing for the playoffs this year I guess??? Hope that works out but folks might end up being disappointed.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Well, this line of thinking or theory is that we are competing for the playoffs this year I guess??? Hope that works out but folks might end up being disappointed.

I thought the playoff aspirations died with the Forsberg injury?

 

[Big Muddy]

For sure. Would be nice to have it.

But if making this trade allows them to sign debrincat and bring in a better defenseman... its worth it

OK, but you'd think those goals could be accomplished in the summer as well, no?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Well, this line of thinking or theory is that we are competing for the playoffs this year I guess??? Hope that works out but folks might end up being disappointed.

We are absolutely competing for a playoff spot. Whether people want to admit it or not.

 

[Hale The Villain]

We've hoarded 2nd round picks. We've drafted 8 players in the last 4 drafts with 2nds. We haven't been trading them away.

The last draft in which we didn't have a 2nd was 2013.

I'd argue that we value keeping 2nd round picks too much.

That's not hoarding whatsoever considering we went through a full tear down rebuild that involved moving an entire top 6 forward group (Stone, Duchene, Brassard, Dzingel, Pageau, Hoffman) and an elite defenseman.

To put things in perspective, Arizona is set to pick 13 times in the 2nd round from 2021-2025 and they haven't been able to trade anywhere close to the level of talent Dorion had when the rebuild started.

It's actually kind of embarrassing how little depth we have in our system right now after trading away all that talent.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

We are absolutely competing for a playoff spot. Whether people want to admit it or not.

Stutzle and team had a long conversation with PD at the beginning of the season. For sure they have to commit

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

OK, but you'd think those goals could be accomplished in the summer as well, no?

Depends. If a player or two are available and fit the need... they might not still he around after the trade deadline.

 

[Xspyrit]

The opportunity to make the trade was there, and I would make that trade 200 times out of 100.

This is a good move.

A good move when you avoid looking at how we got in that mess in the first place. Ceci didn't need to be dumped as he was RFA. We added a 3rd round pick too. Only to get 3 years of Brown while we were not competitive and we got stuck with Zaitsev's contract too

Dorion didn't give him that contract. We got Brown with Zaitsev. We also just traded Brown for.... a 2nd round pick.

We Basically got many years use of Connor Brown for free.

Shrewd asset management by Dorion.

Oh yeah the 3 years of Connor Brown where we were at the bottom of the standings while he was 2nd in scoring during that period of time

Dorion might have not given him that contract but he surely acquired it...

Zaitsev lasted longer in the Sens organization than Connor Brown... so we had negative aspects of the dump long than the positive aspects... let that sink in

Shrewd asset management!

 

[DaveMatthew]

That's not hoarding whatsoever considering we went through a full tear down rebuild that involved moving an entire top 6 forward group (Stone, Duchene, Brassard, Dzingel, Pageau, Hoffman) and an elite defenseman.

To put things in perspective, Arizona is set to pick 13 times in the 2nd round from 2021-2025 and they haven't been able to trade anywhere close to the level of talent Dorion had when the rebuild started.

It's actually kind of embarrassing how little depth we have in our system right now after trading away all that talent.

Sure, Ottawa hasn't accumulated as many 2nd round picks as Arizona. But they certainly accumulated significantly better assets during their rebuild than Arizona has so far during theirs. Have the Coyotes traded for a Josh Norris? Or a 1st round pick that lands them a Tim Stützle? They haven't even traded for a prospect the calibre of Erik Brannstrom. The best they've gotten so far is Jack McBain.

Lot's of 2nds. Lottery tickets.

Also considering the amount of U24 talent we already have on the roster, our depth is not at all embarrassing. It's filled with the type of prospects you get in the 2nd round (Kleven, Jarventie, Ostapchuk, Hamara, Merilainen, etc). We have tons of 2nd round calibre depth.

Honestly, the only blatant miss is Tyler Boucher. That should have been another premier piece. But other than that, I can't see how anyone has a problem with the amount of top-end young talent, and depth, we currently have in this org.

You're going to hold it against the team that their best prospects have actually made the NHL in their late teens and early 20's and as a result, are no longer listed in the Athletic's rankings?

 

[JD1]

That's not hoarding whatsoever considering we went through a full tear down rebuild that involved moving an entire top 6 forward group (Stone, Duchene, Brassard, Dzingel, Pageau, Hoffman) and an elite defenseman.

To put things in perspective, Arizona is set to pick 13 times in the 2nd round from 2021-2025 and they haven't been able to trade anywhere close to the level of talent Dorion had when the rebuild started.

It's actually kind of embarrassing how little depth we have in our system right now after trading away all that talent.

It's hard to tell if you don't really get it or if you're being disingenuous.

I'm not going to go toe to toe with you recalling all the past deals that led to picks, but we both know that Arizona has been collecting picks for acquiring bad contracts basically forever. Frankly it's a practice that I would prefer the league do away with as it allows teams to bury mistakes.

We've made 48 draft choices in the Dorion era in 7 drafts. 7*7 is 49. Of those, 20 have been 1st or 2nd rounders. 7*2 is 14.

So anyway you look at that data, over 7 years we've picked one less than we should, with the lean years being 2016 and 2017. I couldn't be bothered to look back to see if the lean picking years are attributable to Murray.

We've also drafted 20 times in the 1st and 2nd rounds whereas had he done nothing, that number would be 14. It seems he's considerably strengthened our opportunity to pick at the top of the draft.

You keep doing you, which is twisting things to form a narrative and I'll keep doing me which is posting factual information that disrupts certain narratives.

It seems we both enjoy our respective roles so it's all good

 

[Hale The Villain]

Sure, Ottawa hasn't accumulated as many 2nd round picks as Arizona. But they certainly accumulated significantly better assets during their rebuild than Arizona has so far during theirs. Have the Coyotes traded for a Josh Norris? Or a 1st round pick that lands them Tim Stützle?

Also considering the amount of U24 talent we have on the roster, our depth is not at all embarrassing. It's filled with the type of prospects you get in the 2nd round (Jarventie, Ostapchuk, Hamara, Merilainen, etc). We have lots of them.

You're going to hold it against the team that their best prospects have actually made the in their late teens and early 20's NHL and are no longer listed in the Athletic's rankings?

As far as difference makers, Bill Armstrong had Kuemper, OEL, Garland and Dvorak to trade.

Pierre Dorion had EK, Stone, Duchene, Hoffman, Pageau, Brassard and Dzingel to trade.

It's not exactly a fair comparison, but for the record the Canucks' 9th overall pick that ended up turning into Guenther was probably a more valuable piece than anything Dorion got for us.

Difference between the two is that Armstrong was able to acquire 10 second round picks by trading Hill+Stepan and taking on Ladd, Gostisbehere, Stralman, Ritchie and Kassian.

Dorion only weaponized his cap space once by getting a 2nd for taking on Paquette and Coburn. Only ONCE in a 5 year rebuild. He preferred to waste our available cap space on acquisitions like Murray (6.25M), Stepan (6.5M), Gudbranson (4M), Boedker (4M), Namestnikov (4M), Reilly (1.5M), J.Brown (1.2M) and Sanford (1.5M). Complete waste of money, not to mention assets. Gave up multiple 2nds and several mid-late round picks to acquire those players, which were not recouped when they were eventually dealt.

Completely missed our opportunity to take advantage of dumb spending by cap teams by utilizing our cap space during the rebuild. Our system is already stretched thin. Coming out of a 5 year rebuild and a complete tear down where we traded more talent than any other team I can think of in the last decade and we have only a couple guaranteed NHLers in the pipeline. It's disgraceful.

 

[coladin]

Excited for the cap space and the freed up roster spot for JBD and Thomson

 

[Big Muddy]

I thought the playoff aspirations died with the Forsberg injury?

Yes, or even before that.

 

[Micklebot]

It's not exactly a fair comparison, but for the record the Canucks' 9th overall pick that ended up turning into Guenther was probably a more valuable piece than anything Dorion got for us.

You do realize Stützle (3rd OA) was a piece Dorion got us, right? Norris too. Guenther has a ways to go to be more valuable than either of them.