The worst player in the 500 goal club?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Randall Graves*, Nov 24, 2006.

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  1. With Selanne and Sundin getting to 500 this year(And Mike Modano soon to join), I started wondering about who the worst player to score 500 goals is. Arguing for the best in the club would contain a short list of players, and I think the worst would put more players in the debate.

    The list:
    Wayne Gretzky
    Gordie Howe
    Brett Hull
    Marcel Dionne
    Phil Esposito
    Mike Gartner
    Mark Messier
    Steve Yzerman
    Mario Lemieux
    Luc Robitaille
    Dave Andreychuk
    Bobby Hull
    Dino Ciccarelli
    Brendan Shanahan
    Jari Kurri
    Jaromir Jagr
    Joe Sakic
    Mike Bossy
    Joe Nieuwendyk
    Guy Lafleur
    Johnny Bucyk
    Ron Francis
    Michel Goulet
    Maurice "Rocket" Richard
    Stan Mikita
    Frank Mahovlich
    Bryan Trottier
    Pat Verbeek
    Dale Hawerchuk
    Gilbert Perreault
    Pierre Turgeon
    Jean Beliveau
    Joe Mullen
    Mats Sundin
    Lanny McDonald
    Teemu Selanne

    My choice: Pierre Turgeon for most of his career he's been a soft 1 dimensional player and I am surprised he has that many goals I never really thought of him as an elite player.
     
  2. The_Human_Atombomb

    The_Human_Atombomb Registered User

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    Tough to say. I might go with Pat Verbeek. And I really really like the little ball of hate.
     
  3. Fish on The Sand

    Fish on The Sand Untouchable

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    You remember Turgeon the way he has been the last 5 years. He was a top 10 player for many, many years during his prime. He is better than Verbeek, Mullen and Goulet for sure.
     
  4. boredmale

    boredmale Registered User Sponsor

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    Lanny McDonald, good player for a few years but take away the mustache he just becomes another good player.
     
  5. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    Selanne.

    He lacks the sort of extra dimension to his game that Verbeek, Mullen and McDonald had.

    All Selanne does great involves puck handling. Not to belittle it but he hasn't demonstrated excellence in checking or tenacity or work along the boards or in front of the net or leadership or in consistent clutch performances. I really like Selanne and think he is MORE talented offensively than many in the 500 club but in terms of who was "the worst player" in terms of what has been brought to the ice, he's borderline among that crew.

    But the last two postseasons I've seen him were the two rounds he didn't score a thing in Colorado and the gawd awful first round exit of my beloved Sharks largely because then newly acquired Teemu couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. But ooohhhh look at him dance with the puck. :shakehead

    Let me put it this way... if Verbeek, Mullen and McDonald never scored a goal they'd exist in the NHL as role players. The fact that they scored 500 goals is a testament of how good and valuable they were as players on a team. Selanne without scoring would be a joke and on his way back to Jokerit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  6. Paxton Fettel

    Paxton Fettel Registered User

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    it's fair to say that Verbeek is the worst player in the 500-goal, 1000-point clubs.
     
  7. Riffo*

    Riffo* Guest

    Gartner,Verbeek and Richard
     
  8. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    The first name io thought of when I read this was Dave Andreychuk. Verbeek was better. And Mullen and Goulet? Andreychuk couldnt hold Goulet's jock. He jsut hung around too long and it just looks good that he has over 600 goals.
     
  9. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    Ciccarelli by a wide margin.
     
  10. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    OMFG... did you see more than the last three years of his career? He was a master, one of the all-time greats, at scoring from the crease. You CANNOT defend against him. His ability to draw penalties, take abuse, get up after getting knocked down and simply put pucks on net was legendary and his gritty tenacious brand of hockey helped win a lot of playoff games. 1200 points in 1232 NHL games reflects the force he was.

    By a wide margin? At least Selanne could be stopped when it mattered most.
     
  11. XploD

    XploD Registered User

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    And Selanne's 1068 in 982 doesn't reflect the force he is?
     
  12. A-Train in Motion

    A-Train in Motion Registered User

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    :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
     
  13. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    Dave Andreychuk is by far the worst of the bunch.

    His reputation as a player really skyrocketed on the Lightning, but for most of his career he was a lumbering guy who just put a lot of garbage goals in the net. He scored 50 goals when he was with the Sabres and Leafs but it was because he played with Lafontaine and Gilmour. He was never a guy who could get things going himself. Dave Andreychuk couldn't even skate backwards.
     
  14. jamiebez

    jamiebez Registered User

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    Another unbiased evaluation from a Sharks fan.... :sarcasm:

    I can't see how anyone would put last him on the list based on his lack of clutch play while Pierre Turgeon sits on there. He's not the most complete player on this list, but he's pretty far from the worst.

    As far as clutch performances go, his two series winning goals in last year's playoffs weren't enough? Or his incredible play at both the 2004 World Cup and 2006 Olympics? How about carrying the Jets back into the playoffs in 92/93 as a rookie and then scoring an OT winner to prolomng their series vs. Van (the ONLY time they ever won a game when facing elimination)? Or carrying the Ducks all season in 97/98 when Kariya was hurt?

    It's not a Claude Lemieux playoff resume, but I think you're judging him based on the worst 3 years of his career (SJ and Colorado). If you look at the whole picture, he's significantly better than a LOT of these guys.
     
  15. LeMAD

    LeMAD Registered User

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    :help:
     
  16. AGraveOne

    AGraveOne Registered User

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    Robitaille, Andreychuk, Ciccarelli, Verbeek, Mullen, and McDonald. Any of those would be choice...arguments vary for each. Really even M. Gartner as well, but Gartner did create...

    Personally, it is tough to criticize this group - 500+ goals in the NHL...WOW.

    I don't know that Luc Robitaille brought anything other than a finishing touch...plus he played many years with Gretzky (not equating that to his success - he showed he could finish pre-Gretz).

    Guys like Andreychuk, Ciccarelli and Mullen (maybe McDonald too, i think - i don't remember him well enough) brought a variation of gritty, tough leadership to the ice...which to me gives them a bit more value.

    So as much i hate to malign any of those guys listed...i'd have to say Robitaille was the least of that class.
     
  17. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Really? Who had him in the top 10? Never saw him in THN's top 10. He might have been a top 10 scorer a few times, but as anyone who knows anything about hockey will tell you, there's more to hockey than just points, and top 10 scorer definitely doesn't mean a top 10 player.

    Turgeon had the potential to be a centre in the Dale Hawerchuk/Denis Savard class - a highly skilled, gifted offensive centre who falls just outside of the top 100 players ever. But Turgeon was soft, inconsistent, and for much of his career, ineffective. He often failed to deliver in the playoffs. Comparisons to Turgeon are often not meant as a compliment, and reserved for highly skilled centres with little in the way of consistency or guile.

    Turgeon would be my pick from this list. If Petr Bondra gets those two more goals, he would supplant Turgeon. Worst player to ever lead the league in goals twice.

    Whoever listed Rocket Richard should have his posting privleges revoked. Give that man a history of hockey lesson. Not only was the Rocket the first player to reach 500 goals (even though he played several seasons when goal scoring was under five per game), he's also the best clutch goal scorer to ever play the game. If I could have one forward, ever, for a Game 7 situation, it would be the Rocket.

    Verbeek's likely the least talented player, but he had all sorts of grit. Not an HHOFer, but I respect him. Ciccarelli was a force in front of the net, and wasn't afraid to be involved physically. Mullen had seven 40-goal seasons and was a first team all-star on a Cup champion. Gartner's nine 40-goal seasons are tied for the third most in league history. If I had to pick a No. 2, it would be Andreychuk - never regarded as one of the top 20-25 players in the league, but he was a force in front of the net, and an unforgettable leadership role in his final two seasons in Tampa.

    As for Selanne: the guy's post-season record is, well, spotty to say the least. 49 points in 65 playoff games is completely unacceptable for a player of his calibre, even worse than the much-maligned post-season portfolio of Marcel Dionne. And as anyone who knows anything about SPORTS will tell you, it's playoffs that count. Regular season? That's just the qualifier, the dress rehearsal for the playoffs. Your ability to raise your performance in the time that matters the most is the first, foremost and truest sign of greatness, and that time that matters most is the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Stanley Cup playoffs are the ultimate test of a player, and of a team. Four best-of-sevens in a two month span? The greatest event in team sports. Selanne does have a reputation as a fader, and it's well deserved. He's not the worst on this list, but he's in the bottom tier.

    jamiebez, I watched every minute of every game in the Vancouver/Winnipeg series in 1993. Selanne was far from the player he was during the regular season. Outside of Game 3, when he was the best player on the ice, he wasn't much of a factor.
     
  18. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    He has my vote.
     
  19. jamiebez

    jamiebez Registered User

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    I'll agree with you about 92/93 - with one caveat. He actually played pretty well in Game 5 as well. He had a good number of chances in that game and while the OT winner was a "right place, right time" kind of goal, he was their best player for the Jets in that game, too. In any event, the Jets were largely outclassed in that series by the Canucks, I wish I could argue otherwise.

    But, does nobody remember the playoffs just last year? 14 points in 16 games? He played great in both Game 7s, getting the game winner in both. He was pretty much the best forward for Finland (if not the best forward, period) in the Olympics, too.

    While I'm ranting, I also disagree with the comments (not yours GBC) about his lack of a complete game. He's changed his game a lot the last 2 seasons. He's much more of a worker along the boards now, and has been a more valuable setup man than he has a scorer. He still uses his speed to generate chances (where the new rules have helped A LOT), but he's a far more complete player than ever before.

    I think that the changes in his game are making him a much better all-around player than ever before, including - perhaps I should say especially - in the playoffs.

    I also need to point out the irony of the fact that we're debating the man's playoff performance to argue his place on a list of the greatest regular season goal scorers. ;)
     
  20. Aerolanche

    Aerolanche Registered User

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    Easily Gretzky.

    The ratio of his offense to defense is absolutely terrible.

    :shakehead
     
  21. Slats432

    Slats432 Registered User

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    This is like asking "Who is the unluckiest lottery winner?"

    You don't get 500 goals without bringing it for a long time....so I couldn't pick anyone.
     
  22. CH Wizard

    CH Wizard Guest

    Andreychuk by far atleast Verbeek was working hard out there to create chances but he hadn't Andreychuk's finishing skills. I've never been a fan of Andreychuk personally.
     
  23. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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  24. hexrae

    hexrae Registered User

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  25. Weztex

    Weztex Registered User

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    I don't know how somebody can say Selanne is the worst of the lot when a good case can be made for him in the top 100 players ever. Players like Andreychuk and Verbeek are nowhere near that recognition. Maybe its overexposure. Anyway, I pick those two as the worst of the lot.
     

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