The Winter Classic as the Final for an NHL In Season tournament?

[SeanConn]

There's already threads about whether or not the NHL should adopt an in season tournament, so right off the bat that's not what I'm trying to debate in this thread. The focus of this thread is on the Winter Classic itself.

For a moment, let's operate under the assumption that the NHL could easily implement an in season tournament using already scheduled regular season games, and that it would generate more interest and coverage in those 66 games with an in season tournament, than without it. The question I have, has to do with the Winter Classic.

Would transforming the Winter Classic into a non regular season, championship finals game for the In Season Tournament, at a possibly neutral site (like the Grey Cup or Super bowl) be more successful than the current format of the Winter Classic?

I think such a change to the Winter Classic would be more successful than sticking with the current format, which imo, has become entirely predictable, deserving of criticism, and become a clear cut example of league bias towards certain franchises due to their historical importance or demographic clout. If teams actually had to earn their spot in the Winter Classic, where they were playing for a major NHL trophy, along with an MVP award, and cash prizes for the players, i think it would be a tremendous improvement for the Winter Classic, and a good long term business decision for the league.

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[Yukon Joe]

It's an interesting idea.

Never been to a Winter Classic, but have been to Heritage Classic (Winnipeg 2016) and been around both the 2003 and 2023 Heritage Classics in Edmonton.

Ultimately though these are primarily for the fans in the stands - I mean you have to be dedicated to stand outside in the cold for 2+ hours for a hockey game.

I like the idea of an in-season tournament in general, but are neutral fans going to fill the stands of a stadium for a neutral-location game? Just to pick a random example - will fans in Buffalo really come out for an outdoor game between Las Vegas and Florida? I don't think they would.

 

[Fenway]

The Winter Classic takes a lot of planning by the home team and teams really want to host it.

However - How about the semi-final and final of an in-season tournament in a city hoping for a NHL team? That is what the NBA did with Vegas.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

With the IST, you still played in a basketball venue even if it wasn't someone's home arena. It looked like a basketball court, it felt like a basketball court, it played like a normal basketball court. It wasn't subject to weird conditions that could skew how a basketball game was played and how players perceived the basket.

The Winter Classic? It's always a gimmick feel; it's not in an arena, it doesn't feel like an arena. For an IST of Hockey where players are playing for however much money, at least make it look and feel like an arena instead of having it subject to whatever weather conditions might occur.

 

[SeanConn]

The Winter Classic takes a lot of planning by the home team and teams really want to host it.

However - How about the semi-final and final of an in-season tournament in a city hoping for a NHL team? That is what the NBA did with Vegas.

Well that's basically the idea, at least for the final. While teams might really want to host the event, the event itself isn't anything like it used to be. If the was the final of a new in season tournament, I think it would become much more exciting to the wider TV audience, and the game itself would just be better.

There'd still be lots of planning involved for the outdoor game, but at least this way teams would actually have to earn the two spots in the game... if a team really wants to host the Winter Classic in their city AND actually take part in it, then they better make the finals of the in season tournament.

 

[SeanConn]

With the IST, you still played in a basketball venue even if it wasn't someone's home arena. It looked like a basketball court, it felt like a basketball court, it played like a normal basketball court. It wasn't subject to weird conditions that could skew how a basketball game was played and how players perceived the basket.

The Winter Classic? It's always a gimmick feel; it's not in an arena, it doesn't feel like an arena. For an IST of Hockey where players are playing for however much money, at least make it look and feel like an arena instead of having it subject to whatever weather conditions might occur.

Changing the Winter Classic so it's no longer just an outdoor regular season game, but rather a non regular season game, high stakes game for a major NHL trophy, cash prizes, MVP award etc... to me that makes the game a lot less gimmicky, and a lot more meaningful. Yeah, there's always the chance of inclement weather, but that impacts both teams equally. If the stakes are higher than just a regular season outdoors, like the Winter Classic has always been, I believe the on ice product will be better as a result, and it will just add to the buzz around an in season tournament.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Doesn't make business sense. The Winter Classic takes a lot of time to plan.

Are fans going to travel to a cold weather city to go see their team in this 'final' on a few days notice? Tough sell, the league wants the Winter Classic sold out months in advance.

Sponsors also buy into the matchup, they don't want an Arizona/Florida Winter Classic.

 

[MikeyMike01]

The Winter Classic takes a lot of planning by the home team and teams really want to host it.

It would have to be neutral site, like the Super Bowl

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Changing the Winter Classic so it's no longer just an outdoor regular season game, but rather a non regular season game, high stakes game for a major NHL trophy, cash prizes, MVP award etc... to me that makes the game a lot less gimmicky, and a lot more meaningful. Yeah, there's always the chance of inclement weather, but that impacts both teams equally. If the stakes are higher than just a regular season outdoors, like the Winter Classic has always been, I believe the on ice product will be better as a result, and it will just add to the buzz around an in season tournament.

Yeah, I can't wait for:

"Come watch our championship game, which should look and feel like a normal regular season hockey game but with more dollars on the line. Later, though - inclement weather is in the area, we're going to have to delay the game a few hours. And, when that's done and we're finally ready to go the ice may not be great and players will be skating through slush - but, ignore all that and pretend this is the same high-quality product you'll see in 1,312 other games this season!"

Which, BTW, the last couple of Winter Classic games (and more before that than people want to admit), ... lots of hoopla, lots of chatter, the on-ice game was not good. If this new IST's championship game is supposed to be a showcase event, make sure the conditions are such that it allows players to showcase their talents. There's a reason the Super Bowl tries to stay in warm-weather cities or domes: less interference from environmental conditions screwing up the game, even if it "impacts both teams equally" that makes the game messy to watch. [Indianapolis vs. Chicago in Miami, in the rain virtually all game long.]

 

[CTHabsfan]

It would have to be neutral site, like the Super Bowl

The Super Bowl determines who wins the NFL championship, while this game would not crown an NHL champion. I think organizers would have a hard time selling tickets for a neutral site Classic.

 

[willy702]

It wouldn't work unless the tournament itself was a huge draw for teams and fans. The whole idea is getting overdone really, neutral site finals work great for the European Champions league for soccer because its the most prestigious club title in the world. European basketball has gone to a Final Four style with neutral sites and they don't even sell out those games. Other sports have the same trouble if they don't have it at the sites of the participants.

I know the NBA thinks they have a winner but let's see where this stands in 5 years. The concept is such a contrived money grab that its success can't be assured. The idea of a Cup tournament implies you have participants from outside of the main league itself, so you get some upsets and a chance for the lower levels to get some opportunities. Champions leagues work because you get to see matchups with teams from other nations. Creating a tournament out of nothing but your existing setup just seems to be trying hard to create something few will care about.

 

[TGWL]

Teams sell Jerseys.
Fans of specific teams want to know in advance because they're planning it out. This isn't the season ending super bowl.
I can't see players wanting to play in a meaningless game, just because it's sold as a Winter Classic w/ prizes.
Schedules need to be made. I can't see the NHL planning a full week off for everybody outside of their already scheduled week off.

These players don't even want to attend the all star game anymore. Ask them to go play a game filled with prizes, while the owners anxiously close their eyes at every potential hit screwing up their season.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Imagine trying to sell 60k tickets to a game between the Winnipeg Jets and Florida Panthers.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Imagine trying to sell 60k tickets to a game between the Winnipeg Jets and Florida Panthers.

Laugh all you want, but Winnipeg is a pretty good road draw - there are ex-pat Winnipeggers all over the place...

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Laugh all you want, but Winnipeg is a pretty good road draw - there are ex-pat Winnipeggers all over the place...

Dude, we're talking about a team that can't fill their 15k capacity arena despite having one of the best records in the league.

 

[SeanConn]

I think some of y'all are wayyyyy overestimating how important ticket sales for the Winter Classic matter are. The most important part is the TV audience. Even a Florida vs Winnipeg Winter Classic in St. Louis for the NHL In Season Tournament trophy is going to be a more exciting and hyped up event than the same old regular season game outdoors between two teams hand picked by league executives.

Does anyone actually get excited by the Winter Classic anymore? I sure don't.

The whole point of this idea is that it will make the Winter Classic a lot more exciting by having it be the finals of the In Season Tournament with a major nhl trophy, and substantial cash prizes on the line.

 

[BMN]

Laugh all you want, but Winnipeg is a pretty good road draw - there are ex-pat Winnipeggers all over the place...

Dude, we're talking about a team that can't fill their 15k capacity arena despite having one of the best records in the league.

A team's home attendance doesn't necessarily always correlate with its continent wide appeal. Some major cities have expats who leave with any one of a number of things they can express their expat patriotism towards (for e.g., someone who leaves Chicago for a job in L.A. might express that via the Cubs........or via the White Sox........or via the Bears.......or via..............).

I guarantee just about everyone ever whoever left Winnipeg for a job in another NHL market goes whenever the Jets come to town. If nothing else, they know it's possibly their one-and-only chance annually to find out which of their kinfolk also reside in the area.

If you did an in-season tournament right to where there was enough time between the semi-finals and the finals, and Winnipeg was playing an outdoor game for a trophy in January? I think a lot of people would make plans to go. This wouldn't be like a Chicago fan deciding whether they want to hold a certain amount of their money back because "well Bedard might take us to _x_ amount of Stanley Cups, I'll save my money for that" or "What if the Cubs have a big run this year again?" etc. etc. etc.

I don't know if the idea is feasible or not but if it is, I'd probably start with neutral sites like Detroit, Buffalo or Toronto and work outward from there.

 

[Spydey629]

I think some of y'all are wayyyyy overestimating how important ticket sales for the Winter Classic matter are. The most important part is the TV audience. Even a Florida vs Winnipeg Winter Classic in St. Louis for the NHL In Season Tournament trophy is going to be a more exciting and hyped up event than the same old regular season game outdoors between two teams hand picked by league executives.

Does anyone actually get excited by the Winter Classic anymore? I sure don't.

The whole point of this idea is that it will make the Winter Classic a lot more exciting by having it be the finals of the In Season Tournament with a major nhl trophy, and substantial cash prizes on the line.

Just because you don't care about the Winter Classic doesn't mean there aren't fans of 32 other fan bases who don't.

The individual franchises, fanbases, and cities absolutely love it, AND the Stadium Series games. With double or triple the normal seating capacity for games, more fans get to enjoy the game in person - even with the bad sightlines, and the areas around the stadiums are full of activities, vendors, and downright carnivals. They are an economic boom to the local area, due to the mid-winter tourism spike that city takes in. As a neutral site venue, that build up is lost in local market itself.

Personally, I think the whole IST concept is downright foolish, soccer and hockey are very similar, but that's a very soccer-unique thing. Not to mention, there is only one Cup that matters in hockey. Heck... even the regular season champion wins the Presidents' Trophy.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I think some of y'all are wayyyyy overestimating how important ticket sales for the Winter Classic matter are. The most important part is the TV audience. Even a Florida vs Winnipeg Winter Classic in St. Louis for the NHL In Season Tournament trophy is going to be a more exciting and hyped up event than the same old regular season game outdoors between two teams hand picked by league executives.

Does anyone actually get excited by the Winter Classic anymore? I sure don't.

The whole point of this idea is that it will make the Winter Classic a lot more exciting by having it be the finals of the In Season Tournament with a major nhl trophy, and substantial cash prizes on the line.

I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

Tickets, merch, and sponsorship is what makes it a money maker. And hosts, both the team and the venue, are very excited about the revenue it brings.

 

[rsteen]

Why would they put an in-season tournament right after the holidays and during the WJC U20's?

 

[SeanConn]

I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

Tickets, merch, and sponsorship is what makes it a money maker. And hosts, both the team and the venue, are very excited about the revenue it brings.

I think you wouldn't understand how much better the branding for the Winter Classic could be if it was a finals game for a major NHL trophy, like the NBA Cup in the NBA. It would create buzz that just no longer exists for the Winter Classic in its current form.

Also, what makes you think the NHL couldn't sell tickets for the NHL equivalent of the NBA Cup Finals? There's a lot of places around the US and Canada that would make great places for a neutral site game for the Winter Classic. I think the NHL could absolutely sell tickets in advance for a Winter Classic with a matchup to be determined by an NHL In Season Tournament... and there would be cities with great stadiums lining up to host the first Winter Classic to determine the winner of the NHL In Season tournament. There doesn't need to be a week off, and there doesn't need to be any fussing with radically changing the schedule. The only radical change would be teams having to actually earn their spot in the Winter Classic, and the teams playing even better hockey since there's a major NHL trophy on the line, and maybe $500k for each player on the winning team. If $500k USD is too much for the league, perhaps they could swing $500k in Canadabucks instead... NHL rosters are bigger than NBA rosters afterall.

I was not a big believer in the NBA Cup, until I watched the games... it was great basketball and there were really great matchups throughout the tournament. The NHL

Why would they put an in-season tournament right after the holidays and during the WJC U20's?

The Winter Classic is always around January 1st... the In Season Tournament would start well that. The NBA's started on November 3rd, and concluded on December 9th. It stands to reason the NHL could start the tournament at the end of November, and end it with the Winter Classic on January 1st.

 

[SeanConn]

Just because you don't care about the Winter Classic doesn't mean there aren't fans of 32 other fan bases who don't.

The individual franchises, fanbases, and cities absolutely love it, AND the Stadium Series games. With double or triple the normal seating capacity for games, more fans get to enjoy the game in person - even with the bad sightlines, and the areas around the stadiums are full of activities, vendors, and downright carnivals. They are an economic boom to the local area, due to the mid-winter tourism spike that city takes in. As a neutral site venue, that build up is lost in local market itself.

Personally, I think the whole IST concept is downright foolish, soccer and hockey are very similar, but that's a very soccer-unique thing. Not to mention, there is only one Cup that matters in hockey. Heck... even the regular season champion wins the Presidents' Trophy.

I do care about the Winter Classic... and that's why I've made this thread, I want to see it improved. The league has had some teams play multiple times in their premier outdoor game, (I think the Penguins have been in it three time?) while some teams haven't had a chance to take part in the game at all.

You might think the NBA In Season Tournament was foolish, but that's on you...the overwhelming response has been that it was a great success, and that it had the American sports media hyped about and covering the NBA in the middle of December, when football is usually hogging all the media coverage. This would be a trophy teams and fans would actually want/ could actually brag about, unlike the somewhat cursed President's Trophy.

 

[Reaser]

Thankfully Bettman was on ESPN tonight and shot down any nonsense "In-season tournament" (stupid name) and instead talked about their plan to have the World Cup/Olympics -staring with the lame 4-team 'invitational'- be their version of an "in-season tournament."

Winter Classic works fine as is. NBA Cup isn't considered a major trophy by any serious basketball/sports fan. Equivalent NHL Cup would be considered even less to be a "major NHL trophy."

 

[coolboarder]

Winter Classic sounds an interesting idea for the in-season tournament. Also I would not mind quarterfinals and semi-finals to be played outdoor during the post Christmas and New Year's Day week. To earn those privilege, you would have to win the group stage to get in to earn those privilege . Group stage can end in early December to prepare for the outdoor rink at the top seed. Those that win the final get extra bonus points to give them the boost even it's 83rd games. This would be incentive for end of season as well, a big gain for home ice even they're even in term of points.

 

[willy702]

So 35,000 people are going to show up in a baseball stadium paying super premium prices for a bad view of a game to watch two teams that may have no connection to the market they are playing in?