Blue Jays Discussion: The Vladimir Guerrero Jr. injury overreaction thread

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The Nemesis

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Apr 11, 2005
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Bo Bichette is all of us.

Spring training is over, so it's time for a fresh thread to begin the year. I might put some other useful/interesting stuff in this post (or a next one) soonish. We'll see if I get time tomorrow or Thursday during the opener.
 

hockeywiz542

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MONTREAL – Troy Tulowitzki is slated to visit an ankle specialist Wednesday to help determine what the next steps are in the injured Toronto Blue Jays shortstop’s recovery.

General manager Ross Atkins declined to get into specifics but Tulowitzki is dealing with bone spurs in his right ankle inflamed by the gruesome injury he suffered last July 28, when he caught C.J. Cron’s heel with his foot as he landed on first base.


“We’ll have clarity (Wednesday) on it,” said Atkins. “(Wednesday) I’ll have a lot more information. We obviously have a lot of information from the course of the off-season and after putting all the information together, there’s another specialist we’d like to see and he’d like to see.”

In an interview with Sportsnet over the weekend, Tulowitzki said he’s been able to hit and take groundballs without problems but that there’s too much pain while running.

When asked what it would take to get him over the hump, he replied, “I wish I had some answers for you. We’re still at the drawing board in trying to figure out what is best, if that’s from stuff in the weight room as far as strengthening stuff, is that from a rest standpoint, is that from an injection standpoint, is that from whatever different thing in trying to figure out what’s best for me and what’s causing my pain.”

Tulowitzki added that the bone spurs predated his ankle injury, he guessed he’d dealt with them for the past 3-5 seasons, and weren’t problematic enough to keep him off the field.


“It’s not playing through pain,” he said, “it’s playing through what you have and it’s been more than enough to take the field every single day.”

The potential options may include surgery.
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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I guess its pretty clear who is making the team with the exception of Diaz vs Espinosa. I would have kept Diaz and Espinosa and sent Gift down but i assume Diaz will be staying - just a guess.

Lineup:
C: Martin
1B: Smoak
2B: Travis
SS: Diaz
3B: Donaldson
RF: Grichuk
CF: Pillar
LF: Granderson
DH: Morales

Bench:
C: Maile
INF Solarte
OF Pearce
INF Ngoepe

Rotation:
Happ
Sanchez
Estrada
Stroman
Garcia

Bullpen:
Osuna
Oh
Tepera
Barnes
Clippard
Axford
Loup

I assume Moll will be DFA'd and Tulo put on the 60 DL to make room for Axford and Clippard. Pretty routine and no real losses (Moll) if he gets claimed.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Aug 14, 2010
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Full stop....there's actually been discussion about Diaz not being with the big club....and above all that, of the three, Gift is the one that's not on the bubble....

d'fuq is going on here...
 

zeke

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Mar 14, 2005
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Looking at Baseball Reference's handy "spring training opposition strength" tool:

10 - MLB end of last year
8 - AAA
7 - AA
5 - A+

Travis 7.6
Donaldson 8.2
Smoak 7.7
Pearce 7.8
Granderson 8.1
Grichuk 8.0
Martin 8.0
Tulo ---
Pillar 8.2

Morales 8.1
Solarte 8.1
Diaz 7.0
Maile 6.8

So basically all of the expected roster played against AAA competition on average this spring - except for 2 guys, Diaz and Maile, who faced AA competition on average (and neither did particularly well against that softer competition). Not sure if that tells us anything about how Gibbons was viewing these guys and their spots on the roster, but maybe it does indicate Diaz' spot isnt a lock.

Pompey 7.8
Alford 6.4
Hernandez 6.7
Smith 7.0
Leblebijan 6.2
Tellez 7.1
Jansen 5.7
Espinosa 8.0
Ngoepe 6.5

Davis 5.9
Fields 6.6
Lopes 6.6
McGuire 6.9

Guerrero 6.4
Bichette 6.6
Gurriel 5.8
Urena 6.8
Pentecost 5.6

So unfortunately some of the standout guys like Teoscar, Alford, and Fields did it against pretty soft competion - not even legit average AA quality on average. It's potentially interesting that Gibbons gave Espinosa the toughest usage of all these guys this spring, and tougher than guys like Diaz and Ngoepe.

Stroman 8.3
Sanchez 8.3
Happ 8.3
Estrada 8.7
Garcia 8.2

Biagini 7.5
Guerreri 7.8
McGuire 7.3
Borucki 7.6
Rowley 7.5

So the regular rotation got as good competition as possible while the Bisons' 5, including Biagini, faced below average AAA quality on average.

Osuna 8.1
Tepera 8.1
Loup 8.1
Barnes 7.5
Oh 8.3
Clippard 8.1
Axford 8.0

All these guys got as good competition as possible too, aside from maybe Barnes.

Alburquerque 8.0
Ramirez 8.2
Breslow 8.3
Mayza 6.5
Dermody 7.0
Santos 6.9
Girodo 7.0

So Gibbons gave Alburquerque, Ramirez, Breslow legit matchups while the other guys he wasn't really using in matchups that makes you think they were ever really in the running for a spot.
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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I don't get it. With Tulo out, he should be third behind Diaz and Espinoza. Hell, put Solarte there for a bit and see what happens if you need to.

His defense had better be spectacular.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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I don't get it. With Tulo out, he should be third behind Diaz and Espinoza. Hell, put Solarte there for a bit and see what happens if you need to.

His defense had better be spectacular.

It's not, and that's the ridiculous part. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it's not like he's Andrelton Simmons.

As long as he's just a late game defensive replacement, I'm fine. But if he's starting multiple games, I'm going full shaner.
 

Discoverer

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It's not, and that's the ridiculous part. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it's not like he's Andrelton Simmons.

As long as he's just a late game defensive replacement, I'm fine. But if he's starting multiple games, I'm going full shaner.

Yeah, I suppose the defensive replacement thing isn't the worst thing in the world, especially if the starting job goes to Diaz. And with Solarte around it's not like he would need to plug in at 3B/2B on a regular basis to give Donaldson or Travis a day off like we saw with the backups last year.

My issue is that Espinoza is also a really good defender and he at least has a bit of a track record in the majors.
 

phillipmike

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Espinosa had some of the best throws from 2B that i have ever seen when watching those games in Montreal.
 

zeke

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2018 Positional Power Rankings: Summary | FanGraphs Baseball

Fangraphs summary of their positional power rankings.

I was looking at the numbers and noticed that the Cubs are the only team that has a better "worst" rank than we do - Jays' worst rank is 17th, Cubs is 14th. The dodgers also have 17th as their worst rank.

And then from the article: "You might be somewhat interested in balance. I calculated a quick standard deviation of the 11 positional ranks for every team. The Blue Jays come out as the most balanced ball club. They’re first at third base — Josh Donaldson is amazing — but everywhere else, they’re somewhere between ninth and 17th. The Jays are followed by the Cubs and Cardinals. "

Me, I'm not a big fan of a balanced approach, but hey, at least we seem to have done a good job of implementing that kind of approach.
 

TF97

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Jul 4, 2010
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I honestly think I would rather have Leblebijian on the roster over Ngoepe. They just got rid of Goins only to get him back but in a South African form.
 

zeke

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the thing is if Ngoepe actually is an elite defender, he's already better than Goins.
 

Nineteen67

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Maybe Tulo isn’t coming back?

Needing a late inning defensive replacement at SS doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about Diaz.

He better be able to hit and get on base.
 

shaner8989

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Aug 6, 2005
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It's not, and that's the ridiculous part. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it's not like he's Andrelton Simmons.

As long as he's just a late game defensive replacement, I'm fine. But if he's starting multiple games, I'm going full shaner.

Lol. I honestly hate this team and think they will be trash. Hope I’m wrong but I’ll stay away from this thread for the most part.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

A$AP Joffrey
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Yeah, I suppose the defensive replacement thing isn't the worst thing in the world, especially if the starting job goes to Diaz. And with Solarte around it's not like he would need to plug in at 3B/2B on a regular basis to give Donaldson or Travis a day off like we saw with the backups last year.

My issue is that Espinoza is also a really good defender and he at least has a bit of a track record in the majors.

I hate to be that guy, but we both know John is going to start him at 2B/3B as well some days, which will drive us all nuts. Probably batting higher than 9th too.

Espinosa had some of the best throws from 2B that i have ever seen when watching those games in Montreal.

Espinosa is great at 2B, and passable at SS. And at the very least, he can run into a fastball every once in a while and golf one out.
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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Lol. I honestly hate this team and think they will be trash. Hope I’m wrong but I’ll stay away from this thread for the most part.

Got to be the post of the year and im not being sarcastic. Has his feelings, knows it is his subjective opinion and does the right thing by staying away. lol
 
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