The Top Ten Centres of the Era Between the 1994 and 2004 Lockouts?

[GlitchMarner]

I don't really consider '95 and '96 to be part of the dead puck era, but some do.

Who were the best ten centres over the cumulative period from 1995 to 2004?

A few are obvious, but then it gets harder to choose players for a top ten list. You have to give some consideration to guys like Weight, Roenick, Damphousse and Turgeon. Gretzky retired in '99 and Lemieux hardly played during this period, so the door is opened for some other guys...


I'd go with (in no real order):


Sakic

Forsberg

Lindros

Yzerman

Fedorov

Modano

Sundin

Francis

Lemieux

Weight


HMs: Oates, Turgeon, Damphousse, Nieuwendyk, Roenick, Brind'Amour, Yashin

Click to read more...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

my ranked top ten, plus some numbers i ran--

rank | name | pts* | goals* | assists* | PPG* | top 10s | top 5s | rosses | harts | smythes | 1ASTs | 2ASTs | selke | playoff points** | cups | finals | led playoffs in scoring
1 | sakic | 1 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 7 | 6 | | 1 | 1 | 3 | | | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2
2 | forsberg | 2 | 9 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | | 3 | | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2
3 | mario | 38 | 35 | 38 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | | 2 | 1 | | 46 | | |
4 | fedorov | 13 | 8 | 20 | 15 | 1 | | | | | | | 1 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 1
5 | lindros | 8 | 4 | 10 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | | 1 | 1 | | 30 | | 1 | 1
6 | modano | 4 | 3 | 6 | 8 | 3 | | | | | | 1 | | 8 | 1 | 2 |
7 | yzerman | 16 | 15 | 16 | 16 | 1 | | | | 1 | 1 | | 1 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 1
8 | francis | 3 | 11 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 3 | | | | | | 1 | 28 | | 1 |
9 | oates | 7 | 32 | 3 | 14 | 2 | | | | | | | | 57 | | 2 |
10 | sundin | 6 | 2 | 9 | 9 |2 | 1 | | | | | 2 | | 15

* rank
** playoff points, ranked among all players (not just centers)

i originally had mario in #1 and oates in #8 ahead of francis. after thinking about it and looking at what they accomplished over that timeframe, i changed my list to the order you see above.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Oates isn't a bad pick at all, but Weight actually outproduced him during the relevant time frame (in points and points-per-game) and was a better goal scorer during that time (although they were both underwhelming when it came to scoring goals from '95-'04).

Weight had 175 goals in 697 games while Oates had 142 goals in 709 games.

Weight had 676 points and Oates had 651.

DW finished in the top ten for points in 2001 and had 40 playoff points from '95-'04 (Oates had 43 during that time).

In the early 90s, Oates was better than Weight ever was, but I think from '95-'04, they were pretty much dead even.


Also, even though Turgeon was a consistent point-producing machine from '95-'04, he obviously had his flaws.

Even though Lemieux didn't play at all in '95, '96, '98 or 99, I don't think it's unreasonable to rank him ahead of Turgeon. He scored a ton of points in '96 and led the NHL in scoring in '97. He also had 76 points in 43 games in 2001 and 91 points in 67 games in '03.

I think I'll drop Turgeon in favor of him.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Oates isn't a bad pick at all, but Weight actually outproduced him during the relevant time frame (in points and points-per-game) and was a better goal scorer during that time (although they were both underwhelming when it came to scoring goals from '95-'04).

Weight had 175 goals in 697 games while Oates had 142 goals in 709 games.

Weight had 676 points and Oates had 651.

DW finished in the top ten for points in 2001 and had 40 playoff points from '95-'04 (Oates had 43 during that time).

In the early 90s, Oates was better than Weight ever was, but I think from '95-'04, they were pretty much dead even.

i like doug weight. but the way i saw it, oates had more good seasons. doug weight has only the one 8th place finish in points, oates has two top ten finishes. oates led the league in assists twice, weight never. oates also led two stanley cup finalists in scoring.

if you take out '03 and '04, when oates was 40 and 41 years old, oates pulls ahead in points (by 44) and points/game (very slightly, by 0.02).

here's the year-by-year accounting:

'95 -- oates: 10, weight: 41
'96 -- oates: 21, weight: 11
'97 -- oates: 17, weight: 17
'98 -- oates: 13, weight: 21
'99 -- oates: 60 (.92 PPG), weight: 149 (.86 PPG)
'00 -- oates: 24, weight: 21 (1 point separated them)
'01 -- oates: 16, weight: 8
'02 -- oates: 7 (.98 PPG), weight: 93 (.80 PPG)
'03 -- oates: 117 (.67 PPG), weight: 34 (.96 PPG)
'04 -- oates: don't ask, weight: 28

or another way of representing that data, ranking each guy's points finishes in the top 50 in order:

7, 10, 13, 16, 17, 21, 24 (oates)
8, 11, 17, 21, 28, 34, 41 (weight)

 

[Hockey Outsider]

my ranked top ten, plus some numbers i ran--

Minor correction, you gave Forsberg credit for 3 Conn Smythe trophies and 0 first-team all-star selections, when it should be the reverse.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Minor correction, you gave Forsberg credit for 3 Conn Smythe trophies and 0 first-team all-star selections, when it should be the reverse.

fixed. thanks

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

my ranked top ten, plus some numbers i ran--

rank | name | pts* | goals* | assists* | PPG* | top 10s | top 5s | rosses | harts | smythes | 1ASTs | 2ASTs | selke | playoff points** | cups | finals | led playoffs in scoring
1 | sakic | 1 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 7 | 6 | | 1 | 1 | 3 | | | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2
2 | forsberg | 2 | 9 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | | 3 | | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2
3 | mario | 38 | 35 | 38 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | | 2 | 1 | | 46 | | |
4 | fedorov | 13 | 8 | 20 | 15 | 1 | | | | | | | 1 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 1
5 | lindros | 8 | 4 | 10 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | | 1 | 1 | | 30 | | 1 | 1
6 | modano | 4 | 3 | 6 | 8 | 3 | | | | | | 1 | | 8 | 1 | 2 |
7 | yzerman | 16 | 15 | 16 | 16 | 1 | | | | 1 | 1 | | 1 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 1
8 | francis | 3 | 11 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 3 | | | | | | 1 | 28 | | 1 |
9 | oates | 7 | 32 | 3 | 14 | 2 | | | | | | | | 57 | | 2 |
10 | sundin | 6 | 2 | 9 | 9 |2 | 1 | | | | | 2 | | 15

* rank
** playoff points, ranked among all players (not just centers)

i originally had mario in #1 and oates in #8 ahead of francis. after thinking about it and looking at what they accomplished over that timeframe, i changed my list to the order you see above.

Pretty good list, and good analysis. Obviously Mario is the hardest to rate, but I think putting him behind only Sakic and Forsberg is a reasonable compromise position.

At first, I agreed completely with your top 7 (with the guys below them more open to interpretation), but thinking about it more... I think you have Fedorov too high. Without his Hart winning season (specifically omitted by this criteria), I really don't know if we can rank him over Modano.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

After others did the hard work, I think this would be my list:

1. Sakic
2. Forsberg
3. Lemieux
4. Lindros
5. Modano
6. Fedorov
7. Yzerman
8. Sundin
9. Francis
10. Oates

HM: Weight

 

[pnep]

Players|"HHOF Monitor" PTS*
Sakic Joe|1758.00
Forsberg Peter|1327.00
Lemieux Mario|1270.00
Yzerman Steve|954.50
Sundin Mats|819.50
Francis Ron|719.00
Fedorov Sergei|677.00
Modano Mike|673.50
Yashin Alexei|611.50
Lindros Eric|580.50
Messier Mark|579.00
Nieuwendyk Joe|550.00
Oates Adam|473.00
Weight Doug|466.00
Richards Brad|460.00
Gretzky Wayne|454.70
Larionov Igor|451.00
Peca Mike|434.50
Damphousse Vincent|414.25
Turgeon Pierre|411.00
Roenick Jeremy|411.00
Gomez Scott|401.50
Arnott Jason|397.50
Holik Bobby|393.50
Brind'Amour Rod|393.00
Thornton Joe|366.00
Barnes Stu|353.50
Draper Kris|352.00
Primeau Keith|351.00
Drury Chris|346.50
Koivu Saku|340.50
Zhamnov Alexei|334.00
Gilmour Doug|329.00
Allison Jason|317.50
Stumpel Jozef|312.00

* - seasons 1995-96/2003-04​