The top 5 players in the 21st century?

[nowhereman]

There are lots of players whose full career is better than Jagr's post-peak years, but if this is how we view things, having Jagr as an option is pointless.
Likewise, having Kuch and McDavid is pointless if we are not allowed to extrapolate or compare based on peak only.
I assumed that I was supposed to give everyone on the list a fair shake rather than compare players under the assumptions "what if McDavid retires tomorrow" and "what if Jagr's pre-2001 seasons never happened".

No matter what the parameters are, Crosby should get your vote if you're not being incredibly biased. He is a top 10 player of all time and is ahead of both Jagr/Lidstrom. Don't let your OV fandom cloud reality - not voting for Crosby here is absurd and petty. It goes against the "fair shake" you speak of.

 

[FoxyClean]

Based on what, his single Vezina? There is really nothing else. He probably won’t even make the HHOF.

Henrik Lundqvist is a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

Top 5 all-time wins, most wins all-time by a European goaltender, top 10 all-time Save %. Most all-time Game 7 wins. .961 Save % in Game 7s.

 

[wetcoast]

There is nothing wrong with picking Jagr and Lidstrom over Crosby. The history board picked both of them over Ovechkin, so why not pick them over Crosby?

True you can pick any 5 guys you want but to not have Crosby in your top 5 players post 2000 is a really bad look plain and simple and the guy that called you out on it is right.

The history board is looking all time at a specific time, just because they didn't as a group have your guy ahead of 2 all time greats (at that point of time) isn't a very good reason to exclude an obvious player for this poll is it?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Ovi
Sid
Kucherov
Kane
Malkin

Kane, Kucherov, and Malkin over McDavid or a 7 time Norris winner is… What?

 

[Garbageyuk]

Henrik Lundqvist is a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

Top 5 all-time wins, most wins all-time by a European goaltender, top 10 all-time Save %. Most all-time Game 7 wins. .961 Save % in Game 7s.

He is not top 5 in all-time wins; he is 6th.

He is not top 10 in all-time save %; he is 11th.

He is actually tied with Brodeur and Roy for most all-time game 7 wins at 6.

The whole game 7 wins and save % thing would be a whole lot more impressive if he ever actually won anything, but he didn’t.

He is the all-time leader in wins by a European goalie though, and that is something. I’ll change my mind based on that because it’s significant, and say he should get in, but I wouldn’t call him 1st ballot. And he certainly isn’t a top 5 player since 2000, not even the best goalie. He may not even be 2nd, or 3rd best.

 

[FoxyClean]

He is not top 5 in all-time wins; he is 6th.

He is not top 10 in all-time save %; he is 11th.

He is actually tied with Brodeur and Roy for most all-time game 7 wins at 6.

The whole game 7 wins and save % thing would be a whole lot more impressive if he ever actually won anything, but he didn’t.

He is the all-time leader in wins by a European goalie though, and that is something. I’ll change my mind based on that because it’s significant, and say he should get in, but I wouldn’t call him 1st ballot. And he certainly isn’t a top 5 player since 2000, not even the best goalie. He may not even be 2nd, or 3rd best.

Looks like Fleury has passed him in wins, at the time he was #5. Also a few weeks ago he was #9 in Save % but Raanta and Saros both just passed the 200 game criteria and were added to the list. Regardless, it's semantics. The man received Vezina votes for 10 consecutive seasons.

 

[MadLuke]

Likewise, having Kuch and McDavid is pointless if we are not allowed to extrapolate or compare based on peak only.

McDavid has 2hart, 3 pearson and 3 ross (favorite for #4) already that among all time great numbers he is not pointless without extrapolation, specially since january 1, 2001.

 

[MadLuke]

People that did not vote for Ovechkin and Crosby, I am curious of your top 5.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

It is for sure not Thornton, Malkin or Kane above Crosby right ? So it is valuing Defenceman-Goaltender a lot ?

Like many pointed out the:
OV, Crosby, Malkin, McDavid and Lidstrom.

Seem almost clear, Brodeur obviously, 5 top 2 Vezina is to be considered but is post 2010 performance is hard to make up for the pre-2005 of some of those, same for Pronger.

 

[McVespa99]

To think... 5% of the voters don't think Sid or OV are top 5 players of the century.

The ones that didnt vote for Ovy are Crosby fan boys. The ones that didnt vote for Crosby are Ovy fanboys....

 

[Zuluss]

No matter what the parameters are, Crosby should get your vote if you're not being incredibly biased. He is a top 10 player of all time and is ahead of both Jagr/Lidstrom. Don't let your OV fandom cloud reality - not voting for Crosby here is absurd and petty. It goes against the "fair shake" you speak of.

He is not and Jagr is better, even though Jagr himself may be like 11th.

Jagr, 7 best % leads over #10 in points
43-39-36-32-32-29-22
Crosby, 7 best % leads over #10 in points
32-27-26-19-17-15-14

Crosby's best season would be Jagr's 5th-best, and that's before we look at how much better Jagr was at scoring goals.

The history board is looking all time at a specific time, just because they didn't as a group have your guy ahead of 2 all time greats (at that point of time) isn't a very good reason to exclude an obvious player for this poll is it?

Why not? I think they have Lidstrom and Jagr about right (though Jagr is a bit too low on their list). They mostly think Crosby>OV, I think the opposite.
So they go Crosby>Jagr>OV, I go OV>Jagr>Crosby.

 

[MadLuke]

He is not and Jagr is better, even though Jagr himself may be like 11th.

If Jagr would have started is career post 2000 he would be such an obvious top 5 player of the the 2000s that I am not sure it matter too.

If you peak purely about point scoring yes Jagr best season were significantly better, but the most time top 3 in scoring in the history of the nhl:
Points

1.	Wayne Gretzky*	15
2.	Gordie Howe*	12
3.	Sidney Crosby	8
	Mario Lemieux*	8
	Phil Esposito*	8
	Stan Mikita*	8
7.	Cy Denneny*	7
	Jaromír Jágr	7
	Jean Beliveau*	7
	Maurice Richard*	7

And that offensive separation during a peak:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Is up there with any mortal in the league history, including Jagr.

But we are talking almost exclusively with pre-2001 Jagr here anyway and a player that would be a good frontrunner for number one of the 2000 would have been a 2000s player.

Crosby has 2 gold medals at the Olympics, great junior career one of the best junior player of all time, world junior championish, world championish, world cup, 3 cup and 4 finals, best ppg among player a significant amount of game, top 2 points in the regular season, most playoff points all of this fully in the 21th, who are 5 player above this in that century.

 

[centipede2233]

How is sakic not atleast in this poll……look at his stats in the 2000’s (which was the back half of his career) they are impressive.

 

[OneSniffTwoSniff]

Kane, Kucherov, and Malkin over McDavid or a 7 time Norris winner is… What?

Get back to me when Connor has won multiple chips. We musnt forget that winning is all that matter in pro sports.

Lidstrom is definitely a goated player and he was my #6 player behind Malkin.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Get back to me when Connor has won multiple chips. We musnt forget that winning is all that matter in pro sports.

Lidstrom is definitely a goated player and he was my #6 player behind Malkin.

Sooo Cups matter for McDavid, but not for OV. Also, somehow Lidstrom has more Cups than any of these guys, a Conn Smythe to match them, and 7 Norrises, but doesnt edge out any of them?

Baffling logic, here.

 

[Ben White]

Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin/McDavid/Jagr/Kane/Kucherov....some ridiculously strong players listed here for peak. I'm curious who are the 2 you have above Forsberg? I like Forsberg - but I can't imagine having him #3 for peak among this group.

Wait a minute, Kane and Kucherov over Forsberg for peak?? You haven’t looked very deeply into the facts I just presented have you?

 

[bobholly39]

Wait a minute, Kane and Kucherov over Forsberg for peak?? You haven’t looked very deeply into the facts I just presented have you?

I wasnt necessarily saying all those players are definitely ahead of Forsberg for peak - just that they all have a case.

I wouldn't personally put Kane ahead no.

Kucherov? Probably. 128 point season, one of the strongest this century (better than any of Forsbergs). And his playoffs are ridiculous too - and unlike Forsberg, he did it 3x in 4 round runs.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Wait a minute, Kane and Kucherov over Forsberg for peak?? You haven’t looked very deeply into the facts I just presented have you?

On merely production alone, I think you could make an easy argument for Kane.

If you’re considering 15-16 Kane’s peak and 02-03 Forsberg’s, both had 106 points, and Forsberg did miss 7 games, but Kane had 106 points AND was the only player over 90 points. He badly outscored the rest of the league.

 

[slapKing]

@Ben White Reason I didn't includes Forsberg was because of lack of Games. Too many missed games by Forsberg

 

[elmaco]

Rask

Matthews

 

[The don godfather]

Matthews

Rask is gonna be a hall of Famer.

 

[slapKing]

@Boo Boo @sanscosm Come on guys, don't just vote for 1 or 2 guys.

 

[treple13]

McDavid at this point in his career doesn't belong in a top 5 list of the last 20 years and it's absolutely ridiculous that he's getting votes. Awards don't matter when you've played half the games of another elite player.

Like let's compare two players

Player one has 437 goals and 1132 points.

Player two has 230 and 669 points

Like it's a pretty clear choice already and then you add in that Player one has won three Cups including one playoff MVP while Player two hasn't won anything.

McDavid over Malkin is an awful, awful decision at this point. McDavid over Kane is pretty terrible as well. And given that Lidstrom, Crosby and Ovechkin are basically locks, there's just logical argument to be made for McDavid when he has roughly half the goals and 500 less points than guys who also have significantly more postseason success.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby
Ovechkin
Lidstrom
Malkin
Brodeur

 

[AgeIess]

McDavid has 2hart, 3 pearson and 3 ross (favorite for #4) already that among all time great numbers he is not pointless without extrapolation, specially since january 1, 2001.

Very good points and big reasons why McDavid is sitting at 3rd most votes in this poll.

 

[J bo Jeans]

If your list doesnt have Lidstrom you're wrong. Arguably the best defenceman of all time. Wouldve dominated all other eras especially Bobby Orrs