GDT: The team we love to hate vs Canes @ 8PM MST

[freeboy]

I feel like I am the only one who has been decently impressed with Holden so far this season. He looks like he worked on his skating and conditioning a lot, he has been making big hits without getting too far out of position to do so, if at all, and he is eating a lot of minutes (not a good thing to most posters). He does not have a high enough awareness/IQ out there to be effective at breaking out the puck and he definitely shouldn't be on the PP but he has probably been our 2nd, 3rd or 4th best defender, depending on the night.

Nope, holden looks measurably better afte only a few games... he looked pretty bad as did most of the team in Pre season though...
He is never going to be the fastest guy but he might just be our charlie hustle... the guy that works harder and longer etc ...
Go Avs

 

[Cousin Eddie]

at some point trying to out do Ovechkin for most shots on goal in a season is going to get old

I love the get everything on net mentality but he has no one following up on those shots and they are being taken from easy angles for the goaltender

at some point he needs to slow things down from hyperdrive and take that extra second to make a finishing move

Well Ovechkin is probably one of the top 3 goal scorers of all time so maybe that's not a bad idea. You can't blame Mackinnon for nobody else going to the net. We've seen Mackinnon hit 6 or 7 posts since the start of the pre season with those "easy angles". Jonathan quick wrote an article a little while ago talking about how guys like Ovie and Datsyuk score so many goals because they shoot when most people wouldn't. If a goalie isn't expecting a shot the odds of it going in are much higher. His goal against Anaheim was from One of those easy angles.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

That loss left me numb, you could see it coming a mile away as the game reached the conclusion and went into OT. Classic Avs missing golden opportunities... odd man rush against. Just surprised it didn't happen in regulation.

It was a pretty good game for them overall. They outplayed the Canes well enough but never established a tempo to the game until towards the end.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

People see want they want to see... those who want to see him fail see it going wide and those who want him to succeed see it going in. In all honesty, you can't be 100% sure but it won't stop people from ******** on him.

That's just a load of crap. Seriously, who the hell wants him to fail? Nobody here has anything against Duchene. Some might hold him to a higher standard since he is suppose to be our best player and just expect him to be better. But wanting him to fail?! My god.

 

[The Kingslayer]

at some point trying to out do Ovechkin for most shots on goal in a season is going to get old

I love the get everything on net mentality but he has no one following up on those shots and they are being taken from easy angles for the goaltender

at some point he needs to slow things down from hyperdrive and take that extra second to make a finishing move

Thats on his wingers then and not on Mackinnon. Mackinnon shouldnt have to adjust his game to play with Landy and Tanguay.Those 2 need to adjust their games to play with Mack. If Mack is going to insist on shooting (something I have zero issues with) then Landeskog and Tanguay need to be hunting for rebounds as far as im concerned. In fact Tanguay shouldnt even be on that line lol. I think Mackinnon is still trying to find the perfect balance of when to blitz and when to chill. Last season all he did was try and slow it down and it didnt work.

Well Ovechkin is probably one of the top 3 goal scorers of all time so maybe that's not a bad idea. You can't blame Mackinnon for nobody else going to the net. We've seen Mackinnon hit 6 or 7 posts since the start of the pre season with those "easy angles". Jonathan quick wrote an article a little while ago talking about how guys like Ovie and Datsyuk score so many goals because they shoot when most people wouldn't. If a goalie isn't expecting a shot the odds of it going in are much higher. His goal against Anaheim was from One of those easy angles.

Exactly. That shot shocked Andersen. He prolly thought Mack was either going to hold onto it a second longer or throw it back in the corner. Based on his reaction it didnt seem like he was ready for a shot.

That's just a load of crap. Seriously, who the hell wants him to fail? Nobody here has anything against Duchene. Some might hold him to a higher standard since he is suppose to be our best player and just expect him to be better. But wanting him to fail?! My god.

Love dutchy but damn is he frustrating at times. I have super high expectations for him so thats prolly why. He has been a ton better the last 3 games though. I hope his confidence didnt get crushed from that Ward save or the fact he has Zombie Iginla on his wing.

 

[tigervixxxen]

This is not against you personally but when are we going to shed the young team excuse?

This team is not young, we are top 3 rd in terms of oldest teams. 9th I think.

It's not like we are leaning heavily on a bunch of young players, the only young players getting significant minutes are Mack, Barrie and Zadorov, that is it.

This young team excuse has to stop.

It's not an excuse, it's what they are. They dressed 4 guys yesterday with less than a full season of NHL experience. That's almost a quarter of the lineup right there. Plus the fact that a 20 year old is now your 1C. And that's the issue too is they haven't leaned on those guys, they all are being managed right now. Sure everyone will say just give them bigger roles they are more talented but it's not that simple. If the team is inconsistent well that's a big reason why right there.

22-20-old
18-24-old

Old-27
23/20-24

27

I don't care that the old brings up the average, that's a lot of young pieces in the top6/4

 

[S E P H]

I thought Rantanen was really solid yesterday. I can't wait until he's actually good, his ability to steal pucks from defenders at both ends of the ice is like we have never lost Ryan O'Reilly. Then picture in that he has the potential to be better offensively than ROR.

But when is enough going to be enough concerning Iginla? Comeau didn't look out of place next to Duchene and Iginla makes one good move followed up by one horrible one. And I thought he really struggled last night. Can't fault him for the overtime, when it just lost some momentum to not squeeze by, but he's a play killer out there. Maybe there is a clause in his contract which says Avs have to play him top 6 minutes. But its only hurting Iginla, him playing with Malkin and Soderberg might be way more beneficial for the team. I know some people complain about rolling three lines, but it does give us a more solid third line option IMO.

Also, when is enough going to be enough concerning Holden on the PP. I thought Holden has been solid the last couple of games, but no way should a player like him ever have top PP minutes. Lets hope it is temporarily due to Barrie,'s suspsension, but I think I would rather call up Noreau and just let him play powerplay minutes instead of seeing Holden out there.

 

[AvsRobin]

I didn't have time to post it yesterday due to other plans.

Team corsi 5v5, 41-33.

Best
Gormley 21-14
MacKinnon 12-6
Beauchemin 15-9
Tanguay 10-4

Worst
Guenin 6-8
Comeau 8-10
Soderberg 8-9
Rantanen 12-13

 

[Former Ladder]

I thought Rantanen is really solid yesterday. I can't wait until he's actually good, his ability to steal pucks from defenders at both ends of the ice is like we have never lost Ryan O'Reilly. Then picture in that he has the potential to be better offensively than ROR.

But when is enough going to be enough concerning Iginla? Comeau didn't look out of place next to Duchene and Iginla makes one good move followed up by one horrible one. And I thought he really struggled last night. Can't fault him for the overtime, when it just lost some momentum to not squeeze by, but he's a play killer out there. Maybe there is a clause in his contract which says Avs have to play him top 6 minutes. But its only hurting Iginla, him playing with Malkin and Soderberg might be way more beneficial for the team. I know some people complain about rolling three lines, but it does give us a more solid third line option IMO.

Also, when is enough going to be enough concerning Holden on the PP. I thought Holden has been solid the last couple of games, but no way should a player like him ever have top PP minutes. Lets hope it is temporarily due to Barrie,'s suspsension, but I think I would rather call up Noreau and just let him play powerplay minutes instead of seeing Holden out there.

I agree completely with everything you have said. Iggy cannot possess the puck and does not help his line unless he is being fed a puck to shoot. I will say that his skating is better this year than last year but passing and puck handling are not there and he is a liability in those regards. His defense is pretty average to below average.

Holden should not have been on the PP at all but I'm sure Roy wanted someone who has done it before filling in there. Hopefully he sees that our power play effectiveness has gone to zero with him on it. Barrie will take it back when he returns but it would be nice to try Zads there in the meantime.

 

[cgf]

This is not against you personally but when are we going to shed the young team excuse?

This team is not young, we are top 3 rd in terms of oldest teams. 9th I think.

It's not like we are leaning heavily on a bunch of young players, the only young players getting significant minutes are Mack, Barrie and Zadorov, that is it.

This young team excuse has to stop.

When we stop being a young team? This team has a number of significant pieces who don't even have a full season under their belts. Zadorov, Rantanen, Grigorenko and Gormley all should fill top 9 or top 5 spots for us and Zads is the only one of that trio ineligible for the calder. Then you add the age of our core guys like Barrie, landy and MacK and we most certainly are a young team; even if the oldies inflate the average age.

Agreed. I was disappointed with the end result but the Avs played a good game and we took the play to the other team.

Am I crazy or does Duchene seem to have really strong chemistry with Soderberg? Everytime they are on the ice together (for a PP) they really seem to mesh well and make good passes to one another...kind of reminds me of Fleischmann in that regard. If Roy is going to make some changes, he could give this a try :

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Comeau
Soderberg-Duchene-Rantanen
Tanguay-Mitchell-Iginla
McLeod-Grigorenko-Skill

You can have the option to switch out Mitchell with Grigs depending on how things are going. I still have a problem with the way the 3rd line is composed. I just don't see how a line of Mitchell-Soderberg-Comeau is giving you much opportunity to provide any offense at all right now.

Dutchy and Soderberg do have nice chemistry on the PP; though I'd try Comeau-Matt-Mikko first, those lines would be interesting as well.

 

[Bender]

When we stop being a young team? This team has a number of significant pieces who don't even have a full season under their belts. Zadorov, Rantanen, Grigorenko and Gormley all should fill top 9 or top 5 spots for us and Zads is the only one of that trio ineligible for the calder. Then you add the age of our core guys like Barrie, landy and MacK and we most certainly are a young team; even if the oldies inflate the average age.



Dutchy and Soderberg do have nice chemistry on the PP; though I'd try Comeau-Matt-Mikko first, those lines would be interesting as well.

I wouldn't mind doing that either, for me the major point of re-arranging it all is to have 3 lines that are capable of putting the puck in.

 

[5280]

It's not an excuse, it's what they are. They dressed 4 guys yesterday with less than a full season of NHL experience. That's almost a quarter of the lineup right there. Plus the fact that a 20 year old is now your 1C. And that's the issue too is they haven't leaned on those guys, they all are being managed right now. Sure everyone will say just give them bigger roles they are more talented but it's not that simple. If the team is inconsistent well that's a big reason why right there.

22-20-old
18-24-old

Old-27
23/20-24

27

I don't care that the old brings up the average, that's a lot of young pieces in the top6/4

Yep, exactly. This core is really young still for sure.

 

[Hesher]

If Varly and the defense keep this up the team will be fine.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I thought Rantanen was really solid yesterday. I can't wait until he's actually good, his ability to steal pucks from defenders at both ends of the ice is like we have never lost Ryan O'Reilly. Then picture in that he has the potential to be better offensively than ROR.

But when is enough going to be enough concerning Iginla? Comeau didn't look out of place next to Duchene and Iginla makes one good move followed up by one horrible one. And I thought he really struggled last night. Can't fault him for the overtime, when it just lost some momentum to not squeeze by, but he's a play killer out there. Maybe there is a clause in his contract which says Avs have to play him top 6 minutes. But its only hurting Iginla, him playing with Malkin and Soderberg might be way more beneficial for the team. I know some people complain about rolling three lines, but it does give us a more solid third line option IMO.

Also, when is enough going to be enough concerning Holden on the PP. I thought Holden has been solid the last couple of games, but no way should a player like him ever have top PP minutes. Lets hope it is temporarily due to Barrie,'s suspsension, but I think I would rather call up Noreau and just let him play powerplay minutes instead of seeing Holden out there.

I agree with this. Rantanen could have gotten a goal and an assist if Duchene scored on that sick feed and if Duchene passed it to him instead of getting robbed. You would think that being a minus player and not getting a point yet would discourage the kid but if anything hes gotten better and better with each game.

Iggy needs to be on the 3rd line with Soderberg and Tanguay getting sheltered minutes at this point. He can still get you 25 goals on that line. Hes not the same guy that could win you board battles like he was able too in 2003. Iginla often gets pushed off the puck real easily. Also, if Roy is going to insist on putting him the PP atleast put him in a position to succeed like 5-10 feet away from the net. Both Iginlas goals this year came around that area. Defenses arent scared of his shot from the blue line.

 

[Metallo]

The core of this team is still young, and that's really all that matters. Florida is a hot team right now because of all their young guys, but they technically have the oldest roster in the league because of veterans they picked up. Does that mean they aren't a young team?

They have much more young players playing significant minutes.

We have some young guys that are not playing much (Grig, Gorm, Rant) so it's kinda hard to pin lack of success on youth.

Crappy teams make excuses all the time. We are going to start winning when the excuses stop.

 

[Metallo]

It's not an excuse, it's what they are. They dressed 4 guys yesterday with less than a full season of NHL experience. That's almost a quarter of the lineup right there. Plus the fact that a 20 year old is now your 1C. And that's the issue too is they haven't leaned on those guys, they all are being managed right now. Sure everyone will say just give them bigger roles they are more talented but it's not that simple. If the team is inconsistent well that's a big reason why right there.

22-20-old
18-24-old

Old-27
23/20-24

27

I don't care that the old brings up the average, that's a lot of young pieces in the top6/4

Duchene and Johnson don't get the young free pass. Rantanen does not have the ice-time of a top 6. Landeskog is our captain, mature beyond his years. No free pass (does not need it). So whos left? As I said MacKinnon, Barrie and Zadorov. No big deal, other teams have young guys playing and don't fall back on the youth excuse.

We have got to stop making excuses for this team.

 

[tigervixxxen]

As I said it's not an excuse. The bottom line is the team isn't good enough to win consistently. So what is the reason, is there not enough talent or the talent isn't ready to take on large enough roles to make a difference?

 

[CB Joe]

As I said it's not an excuse. The bottom line is the team isn't good enough to win consistently. So what is the reason, is there not enough talent or the talent isn't ready to take on large enough roles to make a difference?

Door number 3. The talent isn't being coached to anywhere near their full potential.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Door number 3. The talent isn't being coached to anywhere near their full potential.

Completely disagree with that. They aren't good enough period.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Well they definitely aren't good enough to contend (yet) but they should be better than what they have shown so far.

 

[Nalens Oga]

I was hoping Rantanen would stay with Duchene for a while but what's the plan now, continue to go Comeau/Iggy with Duchene? That's hot garbage and a waste of a 2nd line. What's their next alternative, try putting Grigorenko there and hope it works?

No this season is gonna be a waste for one of our best players if they don't figure that out or make a trade for a winger.

 

[Foppa2118]

They may not be ready to "contend" but I think people are underestimating how much this team can grow within a season and be much more prepared to do damage in the playoffs than it may look right now.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Completely disagree with that. They aren't good enough period.

If we just are not talented enough, I guess the question then would be what positions do we need to upgrade in order to have the sufficient talent levels?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Well I do believe age is part of it but if that's not a valid perspective then what's been said here a million times, top 9 talent especially at wing, defense. I believe coaching and systems can enhance what you have, they aren't going to make a champion out of thin air. This isn't a contender and Roy is holding them back. He's not preventing them from putting the puck in the net. But since age doesn't matter the solution then is to just play more of the kids, that's where Roy is holding them back.

 

[CB Joe]

Well I do believe age is part of it but if that's not a valid perspective then what's been said here a million times, top 9 talent especially at wing, defense. I believe coaching and systems can enhance what you have, they aren't going to make a champion out of thin air. This isn't a contender and Roy is holding them back. He's not preventing them from putting the puck in the net. But since age doesn't matter the solution then is to just play more of the kids, that's where Roy is holding them back.

I really don't think age is part of the reason. Varly and Duchene are on their 7th season in the league, Johnson on his 8th, Barrie on this 4th, Landeskog on his 5th, and MacKinnon on his 3rd. These players are the Avs 'young' core. It's no longer acceptable for these players to still be figuring out how to get into the playoffs on a consistent basis. They may be young but they are experienced.

I don't think the amount of talent is the issue either. The Avs have an all star goalie in Varly, 3 proven top-4 defenseman in Beauchemin, Johnson, and Barrie. Zadorov is playing like a top-4 defenseman so far, so you could potentially include him in that group. For scoring the Avs have MacKinnon, Landeskog, Duchene, Iginla, Tanguay, Soderberg, and for depth Mitchell and Comeau. That's a fair amount of depth with 4 potential elite scorers. Now consider that there are 14 teams in the west and 8 available playoff spots. With the Avs current play they have a poor chance at making the playoffs. So if the roster is to blame do you consider that talent to be below average for the Western conference?