GDT: The team we love to hate vs Canes @ 8PM MST

[agentblack]

If we just are not talented enough, I guess the question then would be what positions do we need to upgrade in order to have the sufficient talent levels?

Bottom pairing D, Top 6 RW and LW

 

[CB Joe]

Bottom pairing D, Top 6 RW and LW

What are you expectations for the wingers? How are they acquired? and where do they fit in with the salary structure?

How much better do you think this team would be with different bottom pair defensemen?

 

[tigervixxxen]

I really don't think age is part of the reason. Varly and Duchene are on their 7th season in the league, Johnson on his 8th, Barrie on this 4th, Landeskog on his 5th, and MacKinnon on his 3rd. These players are the Avs 'young' core. It's no longer acceptable for these players to still be figuring out how to get into the playoffs on a consistent basis. They may be young but they are experienced.

I don't think the amount of talent is the issue either. The Avs have an all star goalie in Varly, 3 proven top-4 defenseman in Beauchemin, Johnson, and Barrie. Zadorov is playing like a top-4 defenseman so far, so you could potentially include him in that group. For scoring the Avs have MacKinnon, Landeskog, Duchene, Iginla, Tanguay, Soderberg, and for depth Mitchell and Comeau. That's a fair amount of depth with 4 potential elite scorers. Now consider that there are 14 teams in the west and 8 available playoff spots. With the Avs current play they have a poor chance at making the playoffs. So if the roster is to blame do you consider that talent to be below average for the Western conference?

Potential elite scorers, which none of them are. It doesn't matter how many years they have, are they at their peak? With the exception of EJ and Varly I'd say no. Zadorov is nowhere close to what he's going to be. People want Tanguay and a Iginla replaced by Grigorenko and his 60 some games of experience. Mitchell and Comeau are best left on support lines. It's not acceptable for an organization who picked first overall two and a half years ago to still be building and figuring it out? Especially when the pipeline was completely barren. It's about managing expectations.

 

[agentblack]

What are you expectations for the wingers? How are they acquired? and where do they fit in with the salary structure?

How much better do you think this team would be with different bottom pair defensemen?

Im looking at it long term

I think at least one of the wingers will be a draft pick , the other via UFA
So add those two in with Dutchy--Rants--Mack--Landy
Hopefully they can all play together...on the team..for the next 5-6 years

As far as the bottom pair? Having a Klein or Gilbert, or Coburn type guys would give us one
very solid D core. Maybe one of the guys in our system fill in a spot and we can pluck
another D via trade for the other.

 

[CB Joe]

Potential elite scorers, which none of them are. It doesn't matter how many years they have, are they at their peak? With the exception of EJ and Varly I'd say no. Zadorov is nowhere close to what he's going to be. People want Tanguay and a Iginla replaced by Grigorenko and his 60 some games of experience. Mitchell and Comeau are best left on support lines. It's not acceptable for an organization who picked first overall two and a half years ago to still be building and figuring it out? Especially when the pipeline was completely barren. It's about managing expectations.

Perhaps my wording was off but Iginla was a top 20 goal scorer in the league last season. Duchene, Landeskog, and MacKinnon are all high end forwards. That is enough offence to stay competitive, especially when you add Tanguay and Soderberg into the mix.

Why do our star players have to be at their peak just to make consistent playoff appearances?

Sure the Avs may have picked 1st two and a half years ago but they were also a lottery pick in 2009. That was over six years ago. So yes, they should be doing more than just figuring it out.

With the talent the Avs have in their lineup they should be at the very least average in the West and that means playoffs.

 

[FALAPARK17]

On the plus side, if the avs continue struggling then Roy might get canned. I'm starting to doubt he's the coach for the avalanche.

 

[agentblack]

Perhaps my wording was off but Iginla was a top 20 goal scorer in the league last season. Duchene, Landeskog, and MacKinnon are all high end forwards. That is enough offence to stay competitive, especially when you add Tanguay and Soderberg into the mix.

Why do our star players have to be at their peak just to make consistent playoff appearances?

Sure the Avs may have picked 1st two and a half years ago but they were also a lottery pick in 2009. That was over six years ago. So yes, they should be doing more than just figuring it out.

With the talent the Avs have in their lineup they should be at the very least average in the West and that means playoffs.

But look at the guys your referencing, how many are defencemen? Even with all the names up front we are still severely lacking talent on D
Look at PIT, Malkin and Sid are going to struggle all year because apart from Letang who can get them the puck?, who can make a play back there?

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Well I do believe age is part of it but if that's not a valid perspective then what's been said here a million times, top 9 talent especially at wing, defense. I believe coaching and systems can enhance what you have, they aren't going to make a champion out of thin air. This isn't a contender and Roy is holding them back. He's not preventing them from putting the puck in the net. But since age doesn't matter the solution then is to just play more of the kids, that's where Roy is holding them back.

Age is a valid "excuse". and I feel all the other new pieces contribute to the inconsistency as well. But I think you are selling us kind of short in the talent department. If everyone consistently played to their potential we would have a very talented team I believe. I believe we are good enough, or damn close at least. It's just a matter of getting everyone to play consistently and to figuring out the best way to maximize their potential.

How much more top9 winger and defender talent do we need? Do we just need 1 or 2 upgrades? Is it a need at an all-star level or just 3rd line/pair level? I honestly think we are just 1 2nd line level winger away, talent wise, and I believe Rantanen will be that. It's just a matter of when.

I really don't see a hole anywhere else:
We have 3 potential star forwards (Lando, MacK, Duchene)
5 top6 forwards (Lando, Mack, Duchene, Iggy, Tanguay)
2 Tweeners (Yeti, Comeau)
Numerous 3rd liners (Yeti, Comeau, Everberg, Rantanen*, Mitchell, Grigo*)
A great 4th line (Mitchell, Skille, McLeod)
An all-star #1
A legit 1st pair
A 50+ point OFD
A legit top4 (Beauch, EJ, Barrie, Zadorov*)
Decent bottom pair players (yes, Holden is fine, Gormley*)
Does any team have good Dmen sitting?
Call up options that don't completely suck (Bigras, Redmond, Everberg/Rantanen, Rendulic, Hishon)

Other than that missing top6 winger I feel the talent is there.

What do you mean that's where roy is holding them back?

 

[Pokecheque]

If we just are not talented enough, I guess the question then would be what positions do we need to upgrade in order to have the sufficient talent levels?

A #1 D-man, and maybe 1-2 shutdown defensive forwards, and perhaps an elite sniper-type scoring winger.

Those assets in various forms might already be in the system/still developing, at least I'm hoping. But at least one or two top-flight defensive forwards who could eat up those ugly minutes, thereby freeing up the scorers, would make such a difference right now.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Perhaps my wording was off but Iginla was a top 20 goal scorer in the league last season. Duchene, Landeskog, and MacKinnon are all high end forwards. That is enough offence to stay competitive, especially when you add Tanguay and Soderberg into the mix.

Why do our star players have to be at their peak just to make consistent playoff appearances?

Sure the Avs may have picked 1st two and a half years ago but they were also a lottery pick in 2009. That was over six years ago. So yes, they should be doing more than just figuring it out.

With the talent the Avs have in their lineup they should be at the very least average in the West and that means playoffs.

They wasted 4 years after picking Duchene doing nothing. It's about consistency and maturity. Yes the talent is there absent a couple pieces but the whole point about youth is inconsistency. Yeah when they have a career year and play how they are capable the Avs have a better year and then when they don't find that same level the next year the team suffers. That's pretty typical of a young team. And bring average in the western conference is expected to be now what 100 points or more? That's why young teams have ups and downs, look at Calgary. With all their talent they should be consistently winning, right? Consistency is the toughest thing to find in sports, to play the same night after night, year after year, to know the guys you have are going to produce X every single year. That takes incredible experience and maturity. I believe a lot of the right pieces are there but it's incredibly early in the life cycle of this era, one that Roy is going to get to see through their draft picks making an impact on the team. They might be good enough for the playoffs if everyone has a career year again, MacKinnon becomes a superstar but it might not even be good enough with how this division is going. That's how I see things anyway, it's not one thing. It's not something any one person can fix.

At this point I'm much more concerned about wingers than defense. I actually feel pretty good about where the defense is headed but all we have at wing now is Landy and the 18 year old who isn't even on the team anymore. I don't know how much magic they are going to spin out of a thin group and that's before any injuries. Iginla and Tanguay will probably produce just fine but a fully healthy season out of both is probably a touch optimistic. Then add on top of Comeau is going to have to play top 6 wing now. And again this is fully healthy. I like Greg but at this point I don't think he's proven he can have that role more than the guy they just got rid of. So no, there isn't enough talent there yet.

Oh I didn't state that last part well. Just saying that the biggest complaint that people have about Roy is not playing kids even more.

 

[CB Joe]

But look at the guys your referencing, how many are defencemen? Even with all the names up front we are still severely lacking talent on D
Look at PIT, Malkin and Sid are going to struggle all year because apart from Letang who can get them the puck?, who can make a play back there?

I disagree. Johnson and Beauchemin are a legit first pair. Barrie is a legit second pair defenseman and Zadarov so far is playing like a legit second pair. With the exception of Beauchemin these guys are pretty good puck movers. The problem with getting the puck to the forwards is that this team has no structure on the breakout, or anywhere else for that matter. Purely a coaching problem not a talent problem.

 

[InjuredChoker]

i don't think calgary has that good talent. they lack a good 2nd line, first line is solid but not great (depending how they form their lineup). D is stacked when healthy but they are missing brodie now. G isn't great.

when this team gets more experienced, bigger cap hits are also going to step in. duchene has 4 more years and barrie and mack need new extensions after this season. EJ could start slowing down after 30s (i'm assuming his current from is just slump/recovering from injury). but as after this season the core is locked up and on good or (probably) relatively good deals, their best window should be in next 3-4 seasons imo. core is in their prime and on good deals. meloche, rantanen, bigras and other can offer some help in good contributions with cheap ELCs in that time frame too.

 

[S E P H]

i don't think calgary has that good talent. they lack a good 2nd line, first line is solid but not great (depending how they form their lineup). D is stacked when healthy but they are missing brodie now. G isn't great.

when this team gets more experienced, bigger cap hits are also going to step in. duchene has 4 more years and barrie and mack need new extensions after this season. EJ could start slowing down after 30s (i'm assuming his current from is just slump/recovering from injury). but as after this season the core is locked up and on good or (probably) relatively good deals, their best window should be in next 3-4 seasons imo. core is in their prime and on good deals. meloche, rantanen, bigras and other can offer some help in good contributions with cheap ELCs in that time frame too.

I was looking at their roster for the start of the season and they are absolutely a one line team. Their second line is filled with solid 3rd line players (who shouldn't be on a 2nd line) and their 3rd line is filled with great bottom 6ers. They have like zero offensive talent besides the first line, so if Gaudreau isn't scoring, they normally lose as that HNIC graph showed. Plus Bennett and Granlund are not ready to be impactful NHL players.