The shootout

[datsyukfan]

I was just watching some YouTube videos on nyquist and came across a video of a bunch of his shootout goals in GR. It came to my attention that he never shoots for us in the shootout. Why do you guys think that is?

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[Flowah]

I was just watching some YouTube videos on nyquist and came across a video of a bunch of his shootout goals in GR. It came to my attention that he never shoots for us in the shootout. Why do you guys think that is?

I'm almost positive he has gone for us in he shootout. Are you sure he hasn't?

 

[Frk It]

I was just watching some YouTube videos on nyquist and came across a video of a bunch of his shootout goals in GR. It came to my attention that he never shoots for us in the shootout. Why do you guys think that is?

"Never shoots for us in the shootout" is not true.

He had 3 attempts this year, and 2 attempts last year. He was 0/3 this year, and 0/2 last year. Which is odd because he's very good on break-aways.

Alfredsson, Tatar, Datsyuk, Bertuzzi, Zetterberg got more attempts this year.

Only Datsyuk, Brunner, and Zetterberg got more last year.

The fact that he's 0/5 in his career probably doesn't bode well. Seems Tatar grabbed a shoot-out spot from converting from early on when given the chance.

IIRC Filppula was a pretty good stick handler, but wasn't used in shootouts that often either.

 

[InjuredChoker]

"Never shoots for us in the shootout" is not true.

He had 3 attempts this year, and 2 attempts last year. He was 0/3 this year, and 0/2 last year. Which is odd because he's very good on break-aways.

yeah, breakaways are little different than shootout. players have time to 'think' for shootouts.. and it messes it up.

ovechkin used to be almost automatic on breakways a while back but not-so-great in SO.

 

[Flowah]

yeah, breakaways are little different than shootout. players have time to 'think' for shootouts.. and it messes it up.

ovechkin used to be almost automatic on breakways a while back but not-so-great in SO.

Goalies also have to think more on a breakaway. There may be other opposing skaters they have to watch for. It's not over after one shot with a breakaway, rebounds have to be controlled and the next play has to be considered. The shootout is a one and done. Nothing to think about but the shooter.

 

[DanZ]

He has one breakaway move

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

His preferred move was the spin-o-rama so I think that is a part of it, skate in with a ton of pace and then flips it high on the spin. First of all that doesn't work great on the NHL caliber of goalie, but even when it does the NHL has threatened to call them off if forward movement stops. I think they avoid this move for the most part these days, it used to be a lot more popular. That isn't to say it has gone away altogether but they have talked about banning it.

A guy that was fairly effective at this and not surprising as it follows the let him play offense theme. Brendan Smith would go forehand backhand forehand shelf a lot in the AHL, was pretty good at shootouts.

I also think Goalies deal much better with shootouts as others mentioned because of the controlled environment. They can setup their push out and retreat perfectly, often Gus eats the goalie up with speed and some of the other things he has to think about. In the shootout he has a controlled environment and less to worry about so he can time it up appropriately. I think he will get some chances this year.

Once again though this is an area where I would champion Smiths involvement but we have almost no chance of seeing it, will settle for PP time for him at least.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

He's got great hands, but he's not really much of a deker. He does a lot of his work with lateral movement, quick feet, and great hockey sense. But he's skilled enough that he could get better over time.

 

[Gyldenlove]

The shootout and breakaways are very different. Goalies are forced to play back in net on a breakaway because the player can wrap around or break across goal plus another player may be coming in as a trailer so you don't want to get caught out of the net. On a shootout since the puck can't move backwards the goalie can be much more aggressive since there is no chance of a wrap around and no other players to worry about.

Nyquist does his damage with his speed and lateral movement which works really well with goalies playing back, but when the goalie can come out and take away more of the net you have to rely more on deeks and less on speed, which is why Bertuzzi did okay on shootouts.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He has one breakaway move

Yeah, it's damn effective though. He just need add 1 or 2 more dekes to his repertoire and he's set.

Gus has gotten some chances in the SO and he'll get more I'm sure. But he needs to start scoring on them soon. Tatar and Datsyuk should be locks for 2 of the 3 shooters next season. 3rd could be Alfie/Nyquist.

 

[izlez]

He has one breakaway move

This.

I'm worried that goalies have picked up on the fact that he just doesn't switch it up and will really start to defend the 5-hole on breakaways. Then we'll have to see if Gus can learn to score with other moves to keep goalies on their toes

 

[TheOtherOne]

To be honest I don't have a good idea of whether Nyquist is good or bad at shootouts, but I do gotta point out that 0 for 5 is nearly meaningless, it's such a small sample size. But coaches should be able to see whether or not he has the moves to start potting them. And if he scores one, that gives him confidence to score more. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him turn that stat into 5 for 10.

A more interesting question in my opinion is what happened to shootout Datsyuk, but I guess that's a discussion for a different thread.

 

[Frk It]

more interesting question in my opinion is what happened to shootout Datsyuk, but I guess that's a discussion for a different thread.

Backhand, forehand, save. That crap really needs to stop.

 

[Flowah]

Backhand, forehand, save. That crap really needs to stop.

I think he's overthinking it. He doesn't want to do the same couple of moves over and over again because he thinks the goalies will get wise. I think he's good enough (duh) to sell the fake and make the move anyway.

 

[Frk It]

He doesn't want to do the same couple of moves over and over again because he thinks the goalies will get wise. I think he's good enough (duh) to sell the fake and make the move anyway.

But he is doing the same exact thing over and over again. If you look at his last 8-10 attempts he is literally doing the same exact sequence of moves every time.

 

[DatsyukianDeke*]

Are we really complaining about Datsyuk SO attempts now?

Guy is one of the best in the business.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Sorry for the thread derailment but I guess if the conversation goes on much longer a mod could always split it off.

Are we really complaining about Datsyuk SO attempts now?

Guy is one of the best in the business.

He certainly used to be one of the best in the business. But yea as others have said, the last 10 attempts he made were an identical move every time. And not even a very good move. A very straightforward, predictable move. It's like either he's overthinking it, or he just doesn't care anymore.

Does anyone other than me remember the same thing happening to Hudler? I remember him being very creative with the shootout for a while... but then his last 5 or so attempts being repeats of the same straightforward move that wasn't working over and over.

 

[BinCookin]

He has one breakaway move

Jussi Jokinen only had 1 move. And he scored every time

 

[RedWingzz]

Are we really complaining about Datsyuk SO attempts now?

Guy is one of the best in the business.

I think the reason people are criticizing Datsyuk is because he has the best hands in the game, yet always tries that dumb backhand forehand move. He ha so many tricks, yet for some reason always does that move. I wanna see the Turco/Vokoun/Harding move. He hasn't done it in like 6 years, its time to try it again. He has never missed on that deke, why he does not try it more is beyond me.

 

[Yzerman1919*]

I think the reason people are criticizing Datsyuk is because he has the best hands in the game, yet always tries that dumb backhand forehand move. He ha so many tricks, yet for some reason always does that move. I wanna see the Turco/Vokoun/Harding move. He hasn't done it in like 6 years, its time to try it again. He has never missed on that deke, why he does not try it more is beyond me.

Yup and if a goalie moves to want to play it then he's smart enough to read that and rifle one in. I feel like Pavel has almost wanted to not make the shootout a "sideshow" like some call it with the insane stuff he can pull. He just goes for nothing ridiculous and is done.

My favorite breakaway from him I think was on Bryzgalov where he basically turned his whole body when going backhand forehand. It was beautiful.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Datsyuk basically does two moves now:
1) his usual backhand forehand
2) backhand (see the two goals he scored against the Leafs around the New Year)

He'll shoot once in a rare while as well, but goalies are going to take their chances that one of those two dekes are coming.

It's actually a good concept because the two moves counter each other. The problem is that he hasn't been executing as well as he'd like (whether that's missing the net or not getting them up high enough), plus the goalies basically have a 50% chance of guessing how to play it.

When the shootout was fresh, goalies were clueless and terrified of Datsyuk because they had no idea what he might do. That's why you'd see them go fishing on his backhand/forehand deke. They now know his bread and butter. He should try better to adapt, but it's easier said than done. It's like telling a pitcher with a full count not to throw one of his best two pitches.

The actual "The Datsyuk" move simply can't be used often by him. There's a reason why we've only seen him attempt it 5 times in his career in the NHL. Twice it's been saved, including the last time he attempted it in a shootout (Mike Smith). He'd basically have to use the counter to that move (which is actually shooting blocker side) far more often for that move to continue to fool goalies (trust me, I've found out for myself as a skater.) But even then, goalies would quickly adapt and start guessing. Goalies have the advantage in the shootouts as is. And the more a shooter goes, i have to imagine that those odds probably only get stronger.

If there's one idea I think Datsyuk could incorporate more often it's going Patrick Kane style. Go in very slow while stickhandling in tight and attempt to let the goalie make the first move and then trust your instincts. He has the hands and quickness that should allow him to have some early success with it.

 

[Detroit Swed Wings]

He has one breakaway move

This.
[collapse=text]Backhand five hole[/collapse]

 

[Frk It]

Datsyuk basically does two moves now:
1) his usual backhand forehand
2) backhand (see the two goals he scored against the Leafs around the New Year)

I don't know how to watch all the shootout attempts a player does, obviously people aren't going to make youtube videos about Datsyuks missed attempts.

But it seems like the issue is he goes with option #1 like 75-80% of the time now, so goalies basically know that it's coming.

I do recall that backhand goal, specifically the WC backhand goal, but I don't remember seeing that move again after that last year.

 

[Frk It]

Are we really complaining about Datsyuk SO attempts now?

Guy is one of the best in the business.

If criticizing= complaining; then sure.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I don't know how to watch all the shootout attempts a player does, obviously people aren't going to make youtube videos about Datsyuks missed attempts.

But it seems like the issue is he goes with option #1 like 75-80% of the time now, so goalies basically know that it's coming.

I do recall that backhand goal, specifically the WC backhand goal, but I don't remember seeing that move again after that last year.

He only had one more shootout attempt after that WC goal.

He had 8 attempts last season. 5 times he used his backhand/forehand move and 3 times he went backhand.

A couple times the goalie read the move, but a couple times he just flat out missed the net and/or didn't get the puck up. He also missed the net on one of his backhand attempts.