hockeyball
Registered User
- Nov 10, 2007
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Speculation: The Sharks are going for the cup next season. How do they proceed?
- Thread starter hockeyball
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YoungSinatra
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rangerssharks414
Registered User
I think Niemi should be traded regardless of whether or not they want to contend or rebuild.
If they trade Thornton, they probably won't be a major contender.
If they trade Thornton, they probably won't be a major contender.
They may trade, but they have to increase their net talent without expending assets. That means the UFA sweeps and it is very slim pickings this year.
Can they acquire a top 3 center, a Vezina caliber goalie or a Norris caliber dman? That's the target.
Can they acquire a top 3 center, a Vezina caliber goalie or a Norris caliber dman? That's the target.
Tkachuk4MVP
32 Years of Fail
Sadly, I don't think they're a contender without Thornton and/or Marleau. They probably wouldn't get fair value for either one, and regardless of your feelings about them in the postseason, they are two of the most talented players in the league and they allow other guys (either directly or indirectly) to play more sheltered minutes. I do agree that we could probably let Niemi go and not miss a beat, but we'll need to get a top 4 D-man somehow someway.
If they're gunning for the Cup, I don't think their needs are that severe. If they're going for the Cup, right now the lines are set up like this with no major moves...
Marleau-Couture-Nieto
Hertl-Thornton-???
Torres-Pavelski-Wingels
Sheppard-Desjardins-Kennedy/Burish/Brown
Vlasic-Burns
???-Braun
Stuart/Irwin-Demers
Niemi-Stalock
The biggest room for improvement is the blue line but they need 2nd pairing level PMD and possibly a top four caliber player for their 3rd pairing to really make it a strength. Moving Stuart is addition by subtraction on its own and if it's upgraded to a legitimate top four d-man, they come out way ahead. Then they will need to find a top nine caliber player that has speed at a minimum and if they have size too that's a plus.
However, I don't think this team should go that route. Honestly, I don't think it matters which route they go because I just don't believe in DW being capable of rebuilding properly nor contend properly. He has shown a constant inability to recognize issues in numerous ways and fails to address them. He has made strides in certain areas but not all and he's more interested in being loyal, especially to off-ice personnel, than maximizing the franchise's efficiency in all areas.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
If they're going for the Cup?
Pavelski for Marchand and Krug
Keep Burns as a forward
Sign Anton Stralman (3 years $4M)
Sign Mikhail Grabovski (2 years $4M)
Buy-out Havlat
Let Boyle and Brown walk
Trade Stuart somewhere for a 7th
Re-sign Wingels, Demers, Sheppard, Stalock, and Hannan
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Tomas Hertl ($0.925m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.667m) / Logan Couture ($6.000m) / Matt Nieto ($0.759m)
Brad Marchand ($4.500m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($4.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($3.500m)
James Sheppard ($1.000m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Raffi Torres ($2.000m)
Adam Burish ($1.850m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.350m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Torey Krug ($3.000m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
Matt Irwin ($1.000m) / Jason Demers ($3.000m)
Scott Hannan ($1.000m) / Matt Tennyson ($0.874m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($1.000m)
BUYOUTS
Martin Havlat ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,984,958; BONUSES: $590,833
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $1,115,042
Pavelski for Marchand and Krug
Keep Burns as a forward
Sign Anton Stralman (3 years $4M)
Sign Mikhail Grabovski (2 years $4M)
Buy-out Havlat
Let Boyle and Brown walk
Trade Stuart somewhere for a 7th
Re-sign Wingels, Demers, Sheppard, Stalock, and Hannan
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Tomas Hertl ($0.925m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.667m) / Logan Couture ($6.000m) / Matt Nieto ($0.759m)
Brad Marchand ($4.500m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($4.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($3.500m)
James Sheppard ($1.000m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Raffi Torres ($2.000m)
Adam Burish ($1.850m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.350m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Torey Krug ($3.000m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
Matt Irwin ($1.000m) / Jason Demers ($3.000m)
Scott Hannan ($1.000m) / Matt Tennyson ($0.874m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($1.000m)
BUYOUTS
Martin Havlat ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,984,958; BONUSES: $590,833
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $1,115,042
Get rid of:
Stuart for a pick
Havlat buyout (or anything)
Burish buyout
Kennedy for a pick
Replace with Stralman, FA winger (overpay if you have to), actual serviceable 3rd/4th liners.
For defense:
Vlasic-Burns
Stralman-Braun
Irwin-Demers
Hannan
Stuart for a pick
Havlat buyout (or anything)
Burish buyout
Kennedy for a pick
Replace with Stralman, FA winger (overpay if you have to), actual serviceable 3rd/4th liners.
For defense:
Vlasic-Burns
Stralman-Braun
Irwin-Demers
Hannan
I was taking it to the level of truly contend. I understand that they can maximize what they have with what is more likely but that won't result in being a true contender.
We basically agree about the core issues with DW.
magic school bus
***********
SactoShark
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
do0glas
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2012
- 13,271
- 683
He's already likened burns to subban. While I agree there is a measure of unpredictability to burns he doesn't have the dangles or the close in agility to impact the game like that.
He will be very good at getting shots through and activating but taking over a la subban or doughty I just can't see it. Maybe if he's paired with vlasic. Maybe.
To contend whilst also shifting the onus of accountability to the young guns I think you trade jumbo and give hertl a center slot.
Open competition to move up and down the line
Marleau-cooch-nieto
Jumbo trade-hertl-wingels
Torres-pavs-xx
Brown-desi-offensively minded speedster
Vlasic-burns
Someone-Braun/Demers
Hannan-Tennyson/mueller
Stalock/Reimer
It looks rough but we have some guys we can move in packages like Kennedy/shep
Stuart and a second
We can get better in our bottom six by moving some ppl.
I think we could be a bubble team if for instance we nabbed Tatar in the jumbo trade. Maybe threw money at niskanen.
Lot of options but I think the big thing is you have a team that buys into a system up and down the line up and give that open competition a try so if Marleau plays like a third liner he will be on the third line.
My plan probably wouldn't see us truly contend until 2015 though
He will be very good at getting shots through and activating but taking over a la subban or doughty I just can't see it. Maybe if he's paired with vlasic. Maybe.
To contend whilst also shifting the onus of accountability to the young guns I think you trade jumbo and give hertl a center slot.
Open competition to move up and down the line
Marleau-cooch-nieto
Jumbo trade-hertl-wingels
Torres-pavs-xx
Brown-desi-offensively minded speedster
Vlasic-burns
Someone-Braun/Demers
Hannan-Tennyson/mueller
Stalock/Reimer
It looks rough but we have some guys we can move in packages like Kennedy/shep
Stuart and a second
We can get better in our bottom six by moving some ppl.
I think we could be a bubble team if for instance we nabbed Tatar in the jumbo trade. Maybe threw money at niskanen.
Lot of options but I think the big thing is you have a team that buys into a system up and down the line up and give that open competition a try so if Marleau plays like a third liner he will be on the third line.
My plan probably wouldn't see us truly contend until 2015 though
I really like this but I don't see us getting Krug. I really want Krug. I also really want Orlov.
Tkachuk4MVP
32 Years of Fail
TheDanceOfMaternity
Registered User
Winky
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2008
- 3,397
- 0
So Stralman is the flavor of the week around here, huh?
Pretty much what others have said ... use 10+ mil coming off the books in cap space to improve D (min one top 4, L side D man).
On a side note, I had an epiphany last night:
The issues in SJ are possibly just as much culture as they are mental. We often mention the culture aspects of the problem, but I think the issues are just as much mental for the players that have been here ~3-5+ years. It's like they expect to lose. These "core" players almost seem to expect to lose in the playoffs. They expect to succeed in the regular season, and they expect to lose in the playoffs. Looking at LA, they seem to expect to win. Down 3-0 in a series? They still believe they can win. Down 2 goals in a Finals game? They know they can come back. I don't see that in our group. It's like the years of talk of "playoff choking" has made these guys truly think they are incapable of playoff success.
Pretty much what others have said ... use 10+ mil coming off the books in cap space to improve D (min one top 4, L side D man).
On a side note, I had an epiphany last night:
The issues in SJ are possibly just as much culture as they are mental. We often mention the culture aspects of the problem, but I think the issues are just as much mental for the players that have been here ~3-5+ years. It's like they expect to lose. These "core" players almost seem to expect to lose in the playoffs. They expect to succeed in the regular season, and they expect to lose in the playoffs. Looking at LA, they seem to expect to win. Down 3-0 in a series? They still believe they can win. Down 2 goals in a Finals game? They know they can come back. I don't see that in our group. It's like the years of talk of "playoff choking" has made these guys truly think they are incapable of playoff success.
Cordsniper
Registered User
Neither of those things will do much with their lack of depth at Right wing. Adding another center will do the least...
The Ice Hockey Dude
Ack! Thbbft!
1) trade Nemo, sign a UFA goalie that can back up and start... I don' t think Troy G is ready yet. let them both compete for starts, perhaps a 50 / 50 split during the season, play the best in the playoffs
2) Burns on D. Sign a decent puck moving very good defensive, moble D for the top 4. Overall this would improve the D believe and would compensate for 1). Sign Demers, perhaps move him as part of a deal. Keep Irwin.
3) Buy out Havlat. Trade Jumbo and Kennedy. SIgn Shepp, Wingels, Brown. Add 2 50-60 point forwards that play young, fast, aggressive, physical and are the kind off players needed in the playoffs for success.
2) Burns on D. Sign a decent puck moving very good defensive, moble D for the top 4. Overall this would improve the D believe and would compensate for 1). Sign Demers, perhaps move him as part of a deal. Keep Irwin.
3) Buy out Havlat. Trade Jumbo and Kennedy. SIgn Shepp, Wingels, Brown. Add 2 50-60 point forwards that play young, fast, aggressive, physical and are the kind off players needed in the playoffs for success.
magic school bus
***********
Audio Outlaw
Jaded Sharks Fan
Sign Dustin Penner and some UFA dmen. That's all you need. He's the key to a CA team winning their first cup. The numbers don't lie. 
Stralman plays on the Right side and Irwin Demers is a complete catastrophe waiting to happen.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Demers crushed third pairing comp with Hannan this year and Irwin is better than Hannan.
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