The season sports died (or when the NFL sunday-ticket packages reach record numbers)

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

After the expected shock of the season cancellation and the NHL becoming the first league in history to make a cancellation, has anybody thought about the 'bigger' picture yet ?

By bigger, I mean outside the scope of the NHL and the sports world at large.

We already know what happened in the NHL. The lockout situation needs no explanation.

However, on the NBA side, it is just as cloudy for the fans as it was for us in January last year. The NBA and it's PA are far apart on issues like salary, fa, and contract restrictions just like the NHL. And this time, the overall revenue pie is so much bigger than the NHL's it's looks more like a cake shop. They say they want to avoid a labour stoppage, but execs have been rumbling that a work stoppage is coming, just like the NHL. The NBA's done it in the past, so it needs to set no precedent, and with some great quotes from its players "sure we make a lot, but we spend a lot", in my opinion it's headed for a black hole.

Of all the pro sports, the one that's being hit the hardest NOW is the baseball.

When the president decides to put something negative about your sport specifically in his state of the union, you know it's bad. the steroid controversy is not going away; Jose's book, Giambi's confession, the FBI documents, A HEARING WITH THE SENATE. Wow. Whatever happens when the dust is settled will make one side very unhappy.

The economics of the MLB isn't peachy. You have the top-3 spenders winning it all yearly. Both Boston and NY literally dwarf the rest of the league in roster salaries reducing the bottom feeding teams to become 1A farm teams for Boston and NY.

The fans are there, though, even with the crappy economics, and the steroid issues. Well, what I meant to say is that they're back at least. It is their past time after all. But if people think Baseball's going to fix these issues cleanly and on time are extremely naive. When the MLB goes back into the blackhole of a lockout or strike, will the fans EVER come back ?

Meanwhile, amongst all this chaos, the NFL is chugging along. The undisputed #1 sport out of all four. It draws the best game ratings, the best championship ratings, sells out it's stadiums every game, rabid fans, a quality product on the field, exciting games, and a dynasty in the making all the while having all the factors that all three of the previous PA's would say destroy their sport.

I wholeheartedly believe the MLB and the NBA are headed for work stoppages or cancelled season's. The NHL has broke the taboo with cancelling their season and now the other leagues can do the same.

The next season or two is gonna be really really dark for pro-sports. Anybody else agree ?

Click to read more...

 

[BLONG7]

Totally agree, great post...The unions in pro sports have lost their perspective on reality...They think that the $$$ is limitless and will always be there...the owners years ago had too much control, but in the last 15-20 years they have relinquished it to pro athlete unions, and are now taking control back and these ego-figure heads can't deal with it!!! The top three major sports have their revenue driven by TV deals, the NHL is driven by the gate and can't get a good TV deal, the NHL is in the worst position financially... but Baseball has a real dragon in it's closet, the steroid issue, and it is not going to go away...Meanwhile the NFL just keeps on ticking, and laughing at these other three...

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

agreed. Although I don't know much about basketball, having the soft cap in place already only helps the owners in terms of getting an even better CBA.

MLB's luxary tax is a joke. The Spankees and Red Sox continue to dominate while the rest of the league tries to keep up. Ever think the Orioles, Jays or D Ray's will win the AL East?

But having the tax already in place means the owners can make it even stiffer the next time around.

 

[Isles72]

agreed. Although I don't know much about basketball, having the soft cap in place already only helps the owners in terms of getting an even better CBA.

MLB's luxary tax is a joke. The Spankees and Red Sox continue to dominate while the rest of the league tries to keep up. Ever think the Orioles, Jays or D Ray's will win the AL East?

But having the tax already in place means the owners can make it even stiffer the next time around.

heh , if I'm the owners of any team other than the bosox or yanks in the AL east I'm asking for relocation

figure , if either the yanks or bosox win the division , the other wins the wildcard.

 

[nyrmessier011]

I agree. But I'm note sure baseball is in so mouch trouble. The MLBs tv deals are also huge and the sports attracts so many people to ballparks and to merchandise, that they can work there way out of the biggest supposid problem of the yanks and sox. I know quite a few huge baseball fans and they couldn't care less what there doin in court. Baseball can easily win a battle for a much stricter luxury tax. All they would have to do is poll the 30 owners and atleast 26 will say they need a stricter one. The tax is too weak in baseball right now because two teams dominate. Steinbrenner isn't a bank. In fact, he passed up on Beltran because he couldnt take another big name players salary. Luxury Tax's do work if there at the right rate to the dollar and at the right level. If the NHL wants to hire Levett, why doesn't the PA hire someone to lay out a flawless luxury tax proposal to the board.

I would say that hockey could easily adopt a very strict luxury tax that will prevent a huge desparity. The NBA has a very bleak future, but they are learning from the NHL's mistakes and read into the situation every second in attempts to avoid the NHL sytle lockout. I'm sure when the NBA locks out you will definetly hear quotes out of the labor negotiations refering to the NHL lockout. They will talk about how the NHL handled things at different points and whether it failed or worked. (worked?)

In addition to things, david stern set up a meeting schedule btw the NBA/PA for I believe twice a week until a new CBA is hammered out. They learned from Bettman that not having a schedule laid out to both parties delays the start of things (December 9th first proposal since the start of the lockout) They will learn more as this lockout progresses and what it does to a sports league. The NBA won't lockout more then 4 months because of this. Another reason why the NHL must be back with normal players in October.

The NFL chugs on yes. The most important part of the NFL's success has been on its revenue sharing plan which is flawless. The NHL must learn from this. Markets may vary in popularity, but with a good revenue sharing system the NHLPA's dec 9 proposal works for the game. The big market owners need to stop their grumbling and realize the game works with this system if they are smart about how they tax.

The NHL seemingly isn't in any worse shape than any other league. I think many people are overplaying the fact that the leagues problems are so big. This is why i also dis-like the owners in addition to the players. The NHL needs to adopt some policy from other leagues, just like the other leagues are studying the NHLs lockout in preperation for their next. They need a luxury tax on a strict percentage level like MLB, but they need revenue sharing from the NFL.

Why not take a major idea from each of the two best american sports leagues?

 

[Hoek]

My understanding is TV ratings are dropping even in the NFL. While still huge ratings eventually I think the networks are going to start realizing that sports aren't worth paying THAT much for (especially since they can slap together a reality show that will pull in similar numbers for less), and all the sweetheart deals that fund player salaries by themselves will come to an end. The NHL might be advantaged in that they already need to get used to life without TV money. Meh I'm probably exagerrating, but all pro sports are definitely in flux right now.

 

[futurcorerock]

If the NHL gets a resounding victory in it's labor dispute, owners in the MLB, NBA are going to perk up and fight harder seeing that the NHL could crush it's own union.... which means lengthy lockouts for both leagues. Couldn't ask for a better scenario for which the NHL to climb up from the abyss and establish themselves..

here's to hoping

 

[mudcrutch79]

Of all the pro sports, the one that's being hit the hardest NOW is the baseball.

Right, I'm sure the attendance at levels not seen since the strike of 1994, good tv ratings, drug testing agreement, parity at better than ever levels according to the commsioner and general strength of the sport is killing them.

The economics of the MLB isn't peachy. You have the top-3 spenders winning it all yearly. Both Boston and NY literally dwarf the rest of the league in roster salaries reducing the bottom feeding teams to become 1A farm teams for Boston and NY.

Florida, Anaheim and Arizona beg to differ. Also Oakland and Minnesota say hi.

When the MLB goes back into the blackhole of a lockout or strike, will the fans EVER come back ?

I don't want to interrupt yet another wanktacular contribution to this forum, but they've already agreed on a drug testing code. As for the CBA, we'll see, but I suspect that they'll get it done. There will be more restraint added to the Yankees spending...that's about it.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

Of all the pro sports, the one that's being hit the hardest NOW is the baseball.

When the president decides to put something negative about your sport specifically in his state of the union, you know it's bad. the steroid controversy is not going away; Jose's book, Giambi's confession, the FBI documents, A HEARING WITH THE SENATE. Wow. Whatever happens when the dust is settled will make one side very unhappy.

The economics of the MLB isn't peachy. You have the top-3 spenders winning it all yearly. Both Boston and NY literally dwarf the rest of the league in roster salaries reducing the bottom feeding teams to become 1A farm teams for Boston and NY.

The fans are there, though, even with the crappy economics, and the steroid issues. Well, what I meant to say is that they're back at least. It is their past time after all. But if people think Baseball's going to fix these issues cleanly and on time are extremely naive. When the MLB goes back into the blackhole of a lockout or strike, will the fans EVER come back?

I agree the NFL is head and shoulders ahead of every other league and I agree that the NBA is headed for a work stoppage unless they learn from the NHL.

However I don't at all agree with you that MLB is headed for a work stoppage. First of all I don't see how the steroid controversy will have much affect on the CBA. Those players will always be tainted in the eyes of baseball fans and some hardcore fans might even be a little turned off, but as far as the CBA goes it doesn't have much affect. There will be more strict rules the next time around for MLB, but that's about it. Doesn't seem like this is going to cause a work stoppage.

Second, between the strength of their union and the fact the Selig made a deal last time around before it got to a lockout, it would seem that the last place they are headed is a work stoppage. Neither side in baseball is willing to take that extreme measure at this point.

On top of that your claim that the economics in baseball are crappy is just wrong. Since the last CBA the playing field has been a lot more level and even the Yankees have shown signs that they can't continue to increase their payroll. I agree it is kind of stupid for Yanks/Sox to be at the top of the league every single year, but is it really bad for baseball economically if that happens? I don't think so. In fact it is a very good thing.

Further, Bud Selig himself would disagree with your assesment of MLB economics and the success of the last CBA. "I really believe that everything we've done – revenue sharing, luxury tax, new stadiums, a myriad of factors – has worked," Selig says. "We have teams that are competitive today that couldn't have been competitive five or six years ago. I don't think people understand how we've changed the landscape of our sport."
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2010302

When the commissioner himself publically comes out and says that everything is going well economically and they are on the right track I certainly wouldn't say that a lockout is coming.

And in terms of the NHL, for those of who you don't feel like reading that article, it claims the 3 biggest reasons for the improvement of MLB since the last CBA are revenue sharing, sharper GM's and the luxury tax. Now considering that the luxury tax hasn't completely stopped the top teams from spending, what in that list would you say has had the most positive affect? REVENUE SHARING. I think we are starting to see a trend...the strongest league, the NFL, instituted revenue sharing a long time ago and currently shares more revenues than any other league...the league with the greatest revenue and payroll disparaties, MLB, instituted revenue sharing in the last CBA and after only a couple of years it has already improved the league. Today, more than ever, a huge percentage of revenues and payrolls league-wide are concentrated in the big markets. Until the NHL owners want to share revenues, it won't matter what kind of system the league has it won't work right. Even a low cap, it won't work right without revenue sharing.

 

[McDonald19]

My understanding is TV ratings are dropping even in the NFL. While still huge ratings eventually I think the networks are going to start realizing that sports aren't worth paying THAT much for (especially since they can slap together a reality show that will pull in similar numbers for less), and all the sweetheart deals that fund player salaries by themselves will come to an end. The NHL might be advantaged in that they already need to get used to life without TV money. Meh I'm probably exagerrating, but all pro sports are definitely in flux right now.

even though ratings are dropping slowly in all sports the networks know they need sports for advertising.

Beer companies want Football, Baseball, Basketball and even Hockey on TV because sports fans are beer drinkers. (Thats just one product as an example)

 

[mr gib]

After the expected shock of the season cancellation and the NHL becoming the first league in history to make a cancellation, has anybody thought about the 'bigger' picture yet ?

By bigger, I mean outside the scope of the NHL and the sports world at large.

We already know what happened in the NHL. The lockout situation needs no explanation.

However, on the NBA side, it is just as cloudy for the fans as it was for us in January last year. The NBA and it's PA are far apart on issues like salary, fa, and contract restrictions just like the NHL. And this time, the overall revenue pie is so much bigger than the NHL's it's looks more like a cake shop. They say they want to avoid a labour stoppage, but execs have been rumbling that a work stoppage is coming, just like the NHL. The NBA's done it in the past, so it needs to set no precedent, and with some great quotes from its players "sure we make a lot, but we spend a lot", in my opinion it's headed for a black hole.

Of all the pro sports, the one that's being hit the hardest NOW is the baseball.

When the president decides to put something negative about your sport specifically in his state of the union, you know it's bad. the steroid controversy is not going away; Jose's book, Giambi's confession, the FBI documents, A HEARING WITH THE SENATE. Wow. Whatever happens when the dust is settled will make one side very unhappy.

The economics of the MLB isn't peachy. You have the top-3 spenders winning it all yearly. Both Boston and NY literally dwarf the rest of the league in roster salaries reducing the bottom feeding teams to become 1A farm teams for Boston and NY.

The fans are there, though, even with the crappy economics, and the steroid issues. Well, what I meant to say is that they're back at least. It is their past time after all. But if people think Baseball's going to fix these issues cleanly and on time are extremely naive. When the MLB goes back into the blackhole of a lockout or strike, will the fans EVER come back ?

Meanwhile, amongst all this chaos, the NFL is chugging along. The undisputed #1 sport out of all four. It draws the best game ratings, the best championship ratings, sells out it's stadiums every game, rabid fans, a quality product on the field, exciting games, and a dynasty in the making all the while having all the factors that all three of the previous PA's would say destroy their sport.

I wholeheartedly believe the MLB and the NBA are headed for work stoppages or cancelled season's. The NHL has broke the taboo with cancelling their season and now the other leagues can do the same.

The next season or two is gonna be really really dark for pro-sports. Anybody else agree ?

for what its worth baseball is gonna have some tough times - the nba however - on the buisness of sports on www.mojoradio.ca arthur griffiths said today the nba deal will be done before the end of the season

 

[AlexGodynyuk]

However, on the NBA side, it is just as cloudy for the fans as it was for us in January last year. The NBA and it's PA are far apart on issues like salary, fa, and contract restrictions just like the NHL. And this time, the overall revenue pie is so much bigger than the NHL's it's looks more like a cake shop. They say they want to avoid a labour stoppage, but execs have been rumbling that a work stoppage is coming, just like the NHL. The NBA's done it in the past, so it needs to set no precedent, and with some great quotes from its players "sure we make a lot, but we spend a lot", in my opinion it's headed for a black hole.

Honestly, do you have any idea of the NBA labour situation?
The only people who are saying it's that bad are Canadian hockey journalists.
The issues in the NBA are not that bad, and light years better then what is in the NHL.
Salary is not really one of the contentious issues between the NBA and the NBAPA. Nor is FA.
The main issues from the owner's point of view is contract length (currently capped at 6 years/7 years, they would like it moved down to 4 years/5 years) and minimum age (owners would like it moved from 18 to 20) the rest of the issues are small. Neither side has mentioned salary as an issue.
I'm tired of people on this board consistently mis-stating the NBA's situation as it stands now. These are nowhere near the night and day pure hard dollar issues that the NHL and the NHLPA are trying to negotiate.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

I'm tired of people on this board consistently mis-stating the NBA's situation as it stands now. These are nowhere near the night and day pure hard dollar issues that the NHL and the NHLPA are trying to negotiate.

Plus the owners and players association plan to meet three times a week until a deal gets done. Stern and Hunter get it, Bob and Gary still dont.

 

[thinkwild]

wanktacular, lol. adj of the day.

In terms of all sports going through changes, i think Bettman and Sterns old law firm would like to do that. It does seem a time of change.

I d think steroids in baseball is a different issue. And more, why isnt football looking into it first, or even managing to escape the spotlight now, as we know of all the football steroid problems, deaths, and misuse.


The NFL tv time slot / marketing machine, has created the most popular tv show sport of the 4, but their success isnt cba related. In fact i'd put forth, that if the NFL had a more baseball like CBA, fans would enjoy it even more. Great teams would again win the superbowl instead of good teams. And really, NFL being the mots national tv show of the 4, is the best positioned to support that in their overall best interests.

 

[GKJ]

After the expected shock of the season cancellation and the NHL becoming the first league in history to make a cancellation, has anybody thought about the 'bigger' picture yet ?

I'll answer for all the people involved with hockey's labor strife.























No.

 

[19nazzy]

I think the success/popularity of the NFL is due to the small amount of games that are played. When you only get to see your team play from 16-20 games every year it automatically brings excitement into each and every game. When you've got leagues with 82/162 games, fans don't feel like they have to see each and every game because there are so many more to watch. That being said, I love having 82 games but I think that *could* be part of the problem

 

[thinkwild]

To be like the NFL, the NHL should have a 16 game season, only on Sunday and Monday nights, the weekend after NFL is finished so we can take the time slot.

 

[cbjrocks]

Totally agree, great post...The unions in pro sports have lost their perspective on reality...They think that the $$$ is limitless and will always be there...the owners years ago had too much control, but in the last 15-20 years they have relinquished it to pro athlete unions, and are now taking control back and these ego-figure heads can't deal with it!!! The top three major sports have their revenue driven by TV deals, the NHL is driven by the gate and can't get a good TV deal, the NHL is in the worst position financially... but Baseball has a real dragon in it's closet, the steroid issue, and it is not going to go away...Meanwhile the NFL just keeps on ticking, and laughing at these other three...

Stop blaming the union...it's boring

The reason the NFL is successful is summed up in this paragraph

http://washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040222-013328-8624r

Pete Rozelle made the NFL the envy of the sports world in the early 1960s by leading a disparate band of team owners to pool key revenues such as broadcasting rights and merchandising and share them equally. From that concept emerged a multibillion-dollar colossus beloved worldwide and year after year of strong competitive balance

.

While the aritcle is titled NFL to re-examine successful revenue-sharing plan, it makes the point...

real revenue sharing= strong league
no revenue sharing=why every other sports can't compare to the success of the NFL.

The eight greedy NHL owners need to understand for everyone to make money, there needs to be real revenue sharing first!

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Right, I'm sure the attendance at levels not seen since the strike of 1994, good tv ratings, drug testing agreement, parity at better than ever levels according to the commsioner and general strength of the sport is killing them.

Baseball has the benefit from a 162 game schedule and 81 home games...40,000 x 81 games in alot of income generated...I still don't see the parity when the Yankees have won the AL east 9 years in a row...the Braves 13 and Giants always make the playoffs.

Florida, Anaheim and Arizona beg to differ. Also Oakland and Minnesota say hi..

Florida said bye to Pavano cause the Yankees could afford him...
Anaheim had the 3rd highest payroll last year. Hardly "small market".
Arizona lost Johnson Schilling and Sexon...I'm they'd love to have signed one of those players
Oakland and Minny have great management and the A's lost Mulder to the Braves and Minny lost Koskie...plus they play in the weakest division in baseball

I don't want to interrupt yet another wanktacular contribution to this forum, but they've already agreed on a drug testing code. As for the CBA, we'll see, but I suspect that they'll get it done. There will be more restraint added to the Yankees spending...that's about it.

they've made strides yes. but i'd like to see the Brewers and Pirates have a chance once in a while