Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Nope, Still Nothing ...

[Harvey Birdman]

I'd put in a claim on Pickard. Partly due to what Niemi looks like and partly because I just like him better than Niemi.

If we are going chasing for a goalie, if Niemi is not working after 5-10 starts, then I would just bring up Jarry from WBS and see what he has.

 

[ColePens]

I don't have a jump off the bridge mentality.

If you want to wait and see where it goes why do you post on a message board?

Once again, it is okay to disagree with you. It doesn't make me a lunatic ranting about how the end is near.

I mean.. I'm not the only one telling you this all summer. But sure. It's me.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why are we going to be knocked out in Round 1 the next two years? Do you honestly think Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney will be our 3C-4C into next season and beyond? What in JR's past leads you to believe this?

Are you incapable of being patient until JR pulls the trigger?

The fact we have 1 point after 2 games changes nothing. JR is waiting on something, whatever that may be. I still think it is Hornqvist's health but maybe he's waiting for something else to happen somewhere else in the league.

He is going to acquire a center. Hell, he has even said as much. Why not trust him?

I'm not saying we are. But if it does happen because of bottom six depth and bringing in UFAs to fill in the center role or vanilla players like Sutter who cares that we retained our youth. If this was 2012, I get the idea behind making sure we lock in every young player, but we can't have Crosby playing 23 minutes at this point in his career like he did with St. Louis.

 

[SEALBound]

Turris may be an interesting option...wonder what he will want to sign for? 28. $6mil/6yrs would be about right considering the market.

Sheary/Rust+1st? Sign Zaripov

Jake-Sid-Horny
Zaripov-Malkin-Kessel
Hags-Turris-Rust/Sheary/Sprong
Wilson-McKegg-Reaves

 

[Harvey Birdman]

I think those of us wanting to resign Bonino's main point has been we could have traded him in year three of the contract when Murray and Jake come up for raises.

Also, unless we somehow get a stud center prospect, we likely will be spending at least three million on a long term solution so the argument is kind of null.

You do not need a stud center prospect to get a 3rd line center. A #1/#2 center, yes. 3rd line, you do not, it would be an ideal pond to look into for the fish. But you do not need it to find one. And I would rather pay a round pick + player + etc for a 3rd line center that we will only have for 1-2 years @ 3M than pay 4 years 4.1 for Bones.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree because you and me have polar opposite views of that lynch pin in our roster.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean.. I'm not the only one telling you this all summer. But sure. It's me.

It is you and a group of people who are subscribing to a viewpoint that Rutherford has been flawless the last two years and deserves no criticism and I should go outside and party.

I'm perfectly content with the Penguins as a franchise, that doesn't mean I can't be critical of very minor details like a 3C. I don't know, I'd expect that kind of discussion on a hockey forum versus "we won a cup, Bonino is trash we have the best roster in the league, etc." if I wanted that kind of discussion I'd listen to Pittsburgh sports radio.

 

[Empoleon877130]

No one has ever said that Rutherford has been flawless and deserves no criticism. The difference is people call you out because all you do is complain.

The problem is you say **** like "Tampa Bay has a better bottom-6 than the Penguins" and then accuse people left and right of being homers who only watch the Penguins. People are so critical of you here because you just complain with the same talking points over and over again and act like you're smarter than everyone else here. It's the same thing Pens x does.

 

[Gurglesons]

No one has ever said that Rutherford has been flawless and deserves no criticism. The difference is people call you out because all you do is complain.

The problem is you say **** like "Tampa Bay has a better bottom-6 than the Penguins" and then accuse people left and right of being homers who only watch the Penguins. People are so critical of you here because you just complain with the same talking points over and over again and act like you're smarter than everyone else here. It's the same thing Pens x does.

I mean, Tampa has a better bottom six than us as it stands.

And this board operates on crazy extremes. Look at the Letang garbage being thrown around right now

 

[Empoleon877130]

I mean, Tampa has a better bottom six than us as it stands.

When you made that claim, Tampa Bay was projected to have this as their bottom-6:

Kunitz-Namestnikov-Callahan
Gourde-Paquette-Brown

That's not better than what the Penguins have. Their bottom-6 is better now because 2 guys that were projected to be in the top-6 (Palat and Point) are on their 3rd line, with Callahan and Namestnikov as top-6 wingers. But anyway, that wasn't really the point of what I was saying.

On the moves you suggested, I'm guessing you would have wanted to enter this season with a lineup like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Wilson-Bonino-Hornqvist
Kuhnhackl-Sundqvist-Rowney

Dumoulin-Letang
Cole-Schultz
Maatta-Ruhwedel

Murray-Jarry

That's a perfectly fine lineup, but is this lineup any better than what the Penguins have right now? It's really not. Your complaining all summer has been about something like this lineup, when it's not demonstrably better than what the Penguins currently have.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

It is you and a group of people who are subscribing to a viewpoint that Rutherford has been flawless the last two years and deserves no criticism and I should go outside and party.

I'm perfectly content with the Penguins as a franchise, that doesn't mean I can't be critical of very minor details like a 3C. I don't know, I'd expect that kind of discussion on a hockey forum versus "we won a cup, Bonino is trash we have the best roster in the league, etc." if I wanted that kind of discussion I'd listen to Pittsburgh sports radio.

Rutherford has been far from flawless, all you have to do is say one name and then any argument of him being so would be destroyed, Mike Johnston. I just believe that GMJR hits more than he misses. It can be compared to shooting a rifle, you don't make a bulls eye every shot, sometimes you do not even hit the target. Sometimes its some where in between. But you want to be hitting more than missing regardless of what your ultimate exact pinpoint of aim was. GMJR sums that up, he hits far more than he misses. Even look at the Kessel trade, has it been exactly what we hoped for, no because Kessel has reinvented himself as bit of a play making winger rather than a sniper. But he has been an incredible player for us and hailed in two cups. Then you look at the Lovejoy for SD trade, which is now just kind of shrugged off now due to us getting a championship and SD's ultimate health. But that trade had Penguins fans grabbing their pitchforks and lighting up their torches like JR was Frankenstein. And these are just a few examples, whether you agree with them or not it goes to show that GMJR isn't flawless and I have never believed him to be. But I do trust him, and I do trust his ultimate plan because he has earned that trust. And I shall wait and see what his mad scientist plan is for this team over the coarse of the entire season.

And also, I doubt you can find anyone that actually understands this team and game on this board that would call Bonino "trash", he is a good player, a very versatile 3rd line center. I only argue and fully believe that at 4YR/4.1M Per he was very expendable based on salary cap implications.

And we do have one of, key word, ONE of the very best rosters in the league even with its current flaws, but as stated above, GMJR has earned my trust as well as many others and I am willing to wait and see what he does to fill/solve those flaws. And until we miss the playoffs or get knocked out in a 2nd round exit he will have that trust. Anything short of the ECF is an absolute failure to me, but until that happens. This team and the management have my trust.

 

[Gurglesons]

When you made that claim, Tampa Bay was projected to have this as their bottom-6:

Kunitz-Namestnikov-Callahan
Gourde-Paquette-Brown

That's not better than what the Penguins have. Their bottom-6 is better now because 2 guys that were projected to be in the top-6 (Palat and Point) are on their 3rd line, with Callahan and Namestnikov as top-6 wingers. But anyway, that wasn't really the point of what I was saying.

On the moves you suggested, I'm guessing you would have wanted to enter this season with a lineup like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Wilson-Bonino-Hornqvist
Kuhnhackl-Sundqvist-Rowney

Dumoulin-Letang
Cole-Schultz
Maatta-Ruhwedel

Murray-Jarry

That's a perfectly fine lineup, but is this lineup any better than what the Penguins have right now? It's really not. Your complaining all summer has been about something like this lineup, when it's not demonstrably better than what the Penguins currently have.

Well, we obviously never will know.

Tampa and Toronto can match our forward depth was my point all summer without us making any moves and how it would be difficult to make moves for a center.

My point this summer has mainly been centered around people over eating our wings who played with any combo of Malkin Crosby Bonino or Cullen, how every single team in the league wants our roster and how we can replace Bonino in a trade with Wilson and a 2nd.

Everyone just kept moving the line as they are doing now. Tampa and Toronto at this point have more enviable depth. I have been perfectly content saying that can change, but what does it cost?

Do we end up having to give up Rust for a legitimate option?

Do we lose a Crosby and Malkin early while going down 0 - 5 in our first couple games while playing three more back to backs in this month?

We have a target on our head, our response was bringing in Reaves and depth defensemen rather than center depth.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

This team definitely needs work, and patience. JR and Sully have to put in the time to pinpoint the issues and eliminate them or replace them with better options. We also need Letang to get back up to speed quickly, because he's been really rusty the first couple of games.

Pixies always has a strong delivery, but I agree with him. There are some pretty big concerns facing this team and some work needs to be put in to solve them. This isn't simply because of our loss last night either, this team's had issues going back to last season. We won the Cup in spite of our shortcomings because we had timely, elite goaltending and an incredibly deep group of forwards that masked pretty big issues like team defense and the blueline as a whole. Now that Letang's back, the blueline should be a lot better, but again--he has to get back up to speed. But the team defense issue remains, and now that we're without a legitimate center on our bottom two lines, our depth is dramatically worse in terms of the third and fourth lines being legitimate threats offensively or being able to hold their own defensively.

And not to harp on the guy after an embarrassing loss, but what's up with Reaves? I thought he was supposed to be a fast skater and tenacious forechecker? He was invisible on his best shifts, and chasing guys looking for a big hit or fight that just isn't there on his worst shifts. I understand that the 4th line is going to have to be entirely different now that Cullen is gone, but we'd better not go back to having one dead line of plugs like in the Bylsma/Johnston era. I know it's been two games, but Reaves hasn't done a thing to impress me yet. Hopefully that's just an effect of the team playing like shit as a whole and not the way it's gonna be normally.

 

[Freeptop]

Do people still think we are fine as-is until the trade deadline?

I never thought JR would wait until the trade deadline to make a move, but in terms of starting the season? Well, so far, it hasn't been the bottom six killing the team. It's been the top 6 giving away pucks, blowing assignments and generally being lackadaisical out there. Unless you have some weird plan to swap the minutes of the current top six and bottom six, I don't see how any move would have changed the end result, especially for last night's game.

 

[billybudd]

If we are going chasing for a goalie, if Niemi is not working after 5-10 starts, then I would just bring up Jarry from WBS and see what he has.

Pickard cleared waivers. Honestly, I like Jarry more than either Pickard and Niemi. I think it's only a matter of when Jarry joins Murray, not if.

I don't disagree, but the argument can be made that Jarry's better off playing 65 in the AHL than 30 in the NHL this season. Pickard's on an expiring contract, so this would be a 1 year type of situation, unless Jarry rips his groin in half or something.

Assuming that the reason we have Niemi--at all--is so Jarry can workhorse in the AHL instead of backing up in the NHL, I'd rather Pickard in the Niemi role on account of the fact that he's always been better (imo).

Too bad we didn't claim him. When Pickard's on (which is not always), he's really, really good.

 

[billybudd]

I mean, Tampa has a better bottom six than us as it stands.

And this board operates on crazy extremes. Look at the Letang garbage being thrown around right now

Do the Bolts fans know this? The only bottom sixer they seem to think is not terrible is Kunitz, of all people.

 

[ColePens]

I never thought JR would wait until the trade deadline to make a move, but in terms of starting the season? Well, so far, it hasn't been the bottom six killing the team. It's been the top 6 giving away pucks, blowing assignments and generally being lackadaisical out there. Unless you have some weird plan to swap the minutes of the current top six and bottom six, I don't see how any move would have changed the end result, especially for last night's game.

Yep. Exactly.

And another pens x twisting words moment. The deadline is the reference point because it's the final day we can make moves. Not a single soul is saying "we must wait!!" Hell we all wanted Cullen back and a trade prior to the season. When it looked like nobody was available, many of us referenced TDL as the final moment where it can all change. Nobody WANTS to wait that long. Not even JR. That's just a reference point.

 

[Empoleon877130]

The Penguins issue isn't not having center depth, it's just not having a 3C. They have a bunch of options for the 4th line, including a guy who has been very effective on the 3rd line in McKegg. The only issue the Penguins have on their roster is not having a 3rd line center. Their defense is good, their winger depth is obviously top of the line, they have 2 elite centers and a solid 4th line center (plus other 4th line center options). Bringing in a 3C wouldn't have changed yesterday. Having McKegg as the 3C isn't why the Penguins are 0-1-1 on the season so far. McKegg has actually done well in that role so far this year.

Idk, with how McKegg has played so far this year, worrying about who the 3C is right now is missing the actual issues. The team defense has gone to utter ****, and it's not because the Penguins lost a bunch of defensive aces and replaced them with a bunch of Daniel Sprongs. That is the #1 issue on the Penguins right now. #2 is the second line, because the Malkin and Kessel duo has been extraordinarily bad since the preseason starter. #3 is Letang, because I honestly don't think he has played well at all so far this year, including the preseason. If you have Letang playing well, Malkin and Kessel gelling and the team playing solid defense, it doesn't matter who your 3C is, especially when McKegg has played as well as he has played.

 

[ColePens]

The Tampa argument is so brutal. Do you think they trade scenarios? Back to back Cups with some holes to fill over having a nice roster on Day 1? They'd take our scenario 100/100 times. Not even a second of hesitation.

 

[Empoleon877130]

The Tampa argument is so brutal. Do you think they trade scenarios? Back to back Cups with some holes to fill over having a nice roster on Day 1? They'd take our scenario 100/100 times. Not even a second of hesitation.

The point that he's making isn't that they'd trade spots in exchange for cups, the point he's making is that their lineup is better right now and he'd rather have the Lightning lineup. That I don't even agree with, but it's not related to what the Penguins did last year or the year before.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Tampa argument is so brutal. Do you think they trade scenarios? Back to back Cups with some holes to fill over having a nice roster on Day 1? They'd take our scenario 100/100 times. Not even a second of hesitation.

Once the banner comes up, you put it behind you. As it stands now I think the only position you can argue a clear advantage on our roster over their's is goaltending. Top six centers is obviously ours, but I would argue Stamkos isn't that far off from being a Malkin like impact player.

 

[Empoleon877130]

How isn't the Penguins forward group better than the Lightning forward group? This isn't comparing bottom-6 groups, this is comparing the entire lineup. Already suggesting the Lightning have a better bottom-6 is up for debate. Bringing top-6s into the debate makes the claim laughable.

I also don't think the Lightning have a better defense than the Penguins. Better top-2? Yeah, for sure. But their #3-6 are not good. It's Maatta, Schultz, Cole and Hunwick vs Sustr, Girardi, Sergachev and Coburn. It's clearly advantage Pittsburgh.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

And another pens x twisting words moment. The deadline is the reference point because it's the final day we can make moves. Not a single soul is saying "we must wait!!" Hell we all wanted Cullen back and a trade prior to the season. When it looked like nobody was available, many of us referenced TDL as the final moment where it can all change. Nobody WANTS to wait that long. Not even JR. That's just a reference point.

This is something that I've been called out on, and I've had to explain multiple times to those calling me out.

When I mention the trade deadline, I'm not saying I'm expecting JR to literally wait until 5 pm on trade deadline day to make a move. I'm simply saying that's the cut off date for when he can still make moves. And thus, expecting something done by the trade deadline means exactly that.

 

[ColePens]

Once the banner comes up, you put it behind you. As it stands now I think the only position you can argue a clear advantage on our roster over their's is goaltending. Top six centers is obviously ours, but I would argue Stamkos isn't that far off from being a Malkin like impact player.

Yeah that's not how life works. Maybe in your negative circle it does. Once the banner goes up, it becomes history that you cannot take away. It's something you always cherish and remember.

Maybe i'll never get through to you because you take this so seriously.. I mean being that you have a tattoo of this on your body. It's a sport. It's a game. It's a fun hobby. It's awesome to see this city thrive when it was left for dead when the steel industry left. It's fun to see people go nuts. It's fun to share these moments with family. It's a game. If we don't win this year, oh well. Try again next year. I'm going to wake up the same regardless.

Look I want to win again this year, too. I want the team to be great. I hope they make the right moves to do so. But if it doesn't happen, no pressure. It's house money from here on our w/ Sid/Geno. 3 Cups? If you told me in 2004 we'd have 3 Stanley Cups in this era, I would have signed on the dotted line w/o even hesitating. It's amazing.

 

[madinsomniac]

Yeah if connor Mcdavid was our 3 C we'd still have lost that game last night.. that just wasnt the problem area right now

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah that's not how life works. Maybe in your negative circle it does. Once the banner goes up, it becomes history that you cannot take away. It's something you always cherish and remember.

Maybe i'll never get through to you because you take this so seriously.. I mean being that you have a tattoo of this on your body. It's a sport. It's a game. It's a fun hobby. It's awesome to see this city thrive when it was left for dead when the steel industry left. It's fun to see people go nuts. It's fun to share these moments with family. It's a game. If we don't win this year, oh well. Try again next year. I'm going to wake up the same regardless.

Look I want to win again this year, too. I want the team to be great. I hope they make the right moves to do so. But if it doesn't happen, no pressure. It's house money from here on our w/ Sid/Geno. 3 Cups? If you told me in 2004 we'd have 3 Stanley Cups in this era, I would have signed on the dotted line w/o even hesitating. It's amazing.

I mean, I'm just discussing rosters in a game.

I don't really get how any of this means anything to what I am talking about. We won back to back cups and it is awesome. I got to live out a dream and see what will go down as one of Crosby's best all time performances in the Stanley Cup Final in game 5 in person.

Our goal this year is to win a third. We are taking about our roster in here this year. Will I cry about it if we don't? No.

Will I identify the issues on a message board you moderate about discussing the Pittsburgh Penguins in a thread dedicated to roster moves? Yes.

You're holier than thou view point is just as ridiculous as you are making mine seem and I've been here since 09 and seen you be negative with the best of the on here.