LeBrun: The Salary Cap - A Referendum on Trade Proposals

[Ianturnedbull]

This might not be a surprise to some people on this board, but LeBrun spoke yesterday on TSN Overdrive about the reality of the cap, and in-season trades.

I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said that because of the salary cap there are fewer and fewer in-season trades. That outside of the trade deadline this is what you have for a team (the likelihood of big changes can't occur until next offseason). That most of the blockbuster trades happen in the offseason (or what little we have of blockbuster trades). Also that GMs can't use LTIR as free cap space because of the injured player could likely return.

In no way am I saying that we can't come to this board, use our imaginations, feel out the value of certain players, and speculate what certain GMs might do. But the likelihood of a trade occuring won't happen until March 3rd, 2023. Beyond that the draft and free agency.

It makes for a not so entertaining regular season, and it's worse if your team is really struggling and nothing can be done.

What do you think of LeBrun's comments?

Do many of you stay away from this board until mid-February?

I haven't been around here long enough to know the difference, but maybe this area of HF is a ghost town until March. Is it?

Click to read more...

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I haven't been around here long enough to know the difference, but maybe this area of HF is a ghost town until March. Is it?

I've been reading and/or posting on this site since before the 2005 lockout.

Nothing will ever stop shitposters from shitposting.

 

[Jumptheshark]

can we have the link to what he said?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

can we have the link to what he said?

Hang on. I'll find something.

Hour 3 - TSN Overdrive November 9, 2022.

 

[SEALBound]

That's the problem with so many GMs handing out bloated contracts to mediocre players. They quickly get up against the cap and then there are few places to run and hide.

Teams with the space can use that as leverage to get higher prices which some teams won't pay. Unless it's an equal value 1:1, there's not much room for a lot of teams to move.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

OverDrive

 

[Big Muddy]

This is nothing new. This has been well known and has been repeated often by GMs for a few decades now.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

This is nothing new. This has been well known and has been repeated often by GMs for a few decades now.

What were you posting back in 2002? Was that the last time you made a trade proposal?

 

[Big Muddy]

What were you posting back in 2002? Was that the last time you made a trade proposal?

I've been watching hockey and following the sport for several decades, and long before 2002. So yes, I've been hearing GMs say this for at least 2 decades.

 

[TS Quint]

More LeBrun shit. This guy is garbage.

Most people know most teams are up against the cap. Teams have shifted to putting their best team together at the beginning of the season rather than waiting to the TDL.

Then we are on the media treadmill of waiting for the trades to happen, wait until the TDL, wait until the draft, wait until FA opens, wait until training camp when teams know what they have etc. THEN THEIR WILL BE BUNCH OF HUGE TRADES……just keep clicking on our ”insiderrrrrr reports”

 

[KingsFan7824]

Accounting for the handful of exceptions over almost 2 decades, he's correct. There aren't many 2021 Eichel situations. You don't trade your way out of a slump anymore. Not many simple change of scenery type deals to be had. 1 way contracts matter. Term is king. Add in the NMCs and NTCs.

I'm sure most GMs would like to do things, but what you got is pretty much what you got. Same reason teams can't scorch the earth and rebuild at the drop of a hat. You have to let time cycle through the bad contracts. If this was 20 years ago, Karlsson is already in Tor, Det, Phi, or NY. Maybe Dal. Not that Karlsson or anyone else would've been signing such long contracts 20 years ago. But with a cap on earning potential, players want all the money they can get today, and the only way to get it is sign for 7 or 8 years, instead of 3 or 4. And if the team goes bad, sorry about wasting your playing time, but at least you got paid.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

More LeBrun shit. This guy is garbage.

Most people know most teams are up against the cap. Teams have shifted to putting their best team together at the beginning of the season rather than waiting to the TDL.

Then we are on the media treadmill of waiting for the trades to happen, wait until the TDL, wait until the draft, wait until FA opens, wait until training camp when teams know what they have etc. THEN THEIR WILL BE BUNCH OF HUGE TRADES……just keep clicking on our ”insiderrrrrr reports”

So what are you saying? It's not true, or it's just an infomercial?

 

[McJedi]

This might not be a surprise to some people on this board, but LeBrun spoke yesterday on TSN Overdrive about the reality of the cap, and in-season trades.

I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said that because of the salary cap there are fewer and fewer in-season trades. That outside of the trade deadline this is what you have for a team (the likelihood of big changes can't occur until next offseason). That most of the blockbuster trades happen in the offseason (or what little we have of blockbuster trades). Also that GMs can't use LTIR as free cap space because of the injured player could likely return.

In no way am I saying that we can't come to this board, use our imaginations, feel out the value of certain players, and speculate what certain GMs might do. But the likelihood of a trade occuring won't happen until March 3rd, 2023. Beyond that the draft and free agency.

It makes for a not so entertaining regular season, and it's worse if your team is really struggling and nothing can be done.

What do you think of LeBrun's comments?

Do many of you stay away from this board until mid-February?

I haven't been around here long enough to know the difference, but maybe this area of HF is a ghost town until March. Is it?

Are you suggesting Boeser, Myers and Garland aren’t about to be traded for packages that include 1st round picks or good prospects?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Are you suggesting Boeser, Myers and Garland aren’t about to be traded for packages that include 1st round picks or good prospects?

No. LeBrun is saying that you're stuck with this team until next offseason based on the struggles with the salary cap. It's possible for them to be moved in March, but even that is unlikely.

 

[Kaibur]

Given the cap went flat for a few seasons after the COVID revenue killer, and several teams had already handed out contracts banking on a continued rise, it's no wonder that teams are up against the cap and trades are limited. Cap space is at a premium and the teams selling it are charging high prices.

It's still possible to make in-season trades if the teams are motivated. There are teams with cap willing to facilitate for a price. But GMs are leery of paying those heavy prices if they can avoid it.

I think given the depth at the top of the 2023 draft class, and the potential for the cap to rise significantly for next year, you're likely to see a lot of roster movement kick off this offseason. And I think there will be more flexibility thereafter to make in-season moves, as fewer teams will require dollar-for-dollar cap trades.

 

[Djp]

This might not be a surprise to some people on this board, but LeBrun spoke yesterday on TSN Overdrive about the reality of the cap, and in-season trades.

I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said that because of the salary cap there are fewer and fewer in-season trades. That outside of the trade deadline this is what you have for a team (the likelihood of big changes can't occur until next offseason). That most of the blockbuster trades happen in the offseason (or what little we have of blockbuster trades). Also that GMs can't use LTIR as free cap space because of the injured player could likely return.

In no way am I saying that we can't come to this board, use our imaginations, feel out the value of certain players, and speculate what certain GMs might do. But the likelihood of a trade occuring won't happen until March 3rd, 2023. Beyond that the draft and free agency.

It makes for a not so entertaining regular season, and it's worse if your team is really struggling and nothing can be done.

What do you think of LeBrun's comments?

Do many of you stay away from this board until mid-February?

I haven't been around here long enough to know the difference, but maybe this area of HF is a ghost town until March. Is it?

thus board is active all year.

in season trades have always been rare even before a hard cap.

most trades prior to late January are usually because of
1 big shake up
2 major injury occurs

some of the deals are secondary ones from nhl rosters or AHL prospect swaps also due to injury/ playing time issues.

in a hard cap world— many teams are close to the cap if not already over with LTIR. Only about 6 teams have a large amount of cap space ( teams who went thru rebuilding but do have players they need to pay). A few other teams have small amount of room.

things probably changes if caps go up by $8M in a few years.


thr other thing to look at—-

look at other sports like baseball and football where salaries have gone up on the stars. What’s happening is the avg career player is getting squeezed out. Teams pay their stars thrn fill much of their roster with younger pre free agency players. From there they fill out the roster with short contracts on players needed to fill holes.

from a cost standpoint and return on investment it makes sense. Do I pay $4M for an avg joe veteran who seems to be pretty reliable in hitting certain stats vs do I go with my young prospect making much less who probably Will have lower numbers this season, but there is a chance they exceed these number and likely would in a yr or 2 with experience. The latter is the better option.

When I was a kid in sports you had many players go into their 30s. The younger pkayers sat on the bench or in minors delaying their start. Today they aren’t waiting for the kids because of the analytics and ROI. Thus is forcing avg joe player out.

we say this over the summer with many more recognized names go unsigned or on PTOs. For some it was pride in not taking a league minimum contract when the prior year they were on a $4M+ contract. some players like Corey Perry are willing to accept the low money to still play because their salaries reach a point of I’ll pay that vet over going with this ELC . If Perry asked for more then they go with the ELC.

 

[TGWL]

It won't change anything around here.

However, I think most of us realize that teams making trades now make it harder to manage cap than deadline cap.

 

[Djp]

That's the problem with so many GMs handing out bloated contracts to mediocre players. They quickly get up against the cap and then there are few places to run and hide.

Teams with the space can use that as leverage to get higher prices which some teams won't pay. Unless it's an equal value 1:1, there's not much room for a lot of teams to move.

part of this is pressure to win now vs looking ahead 3 yrs or so from now And cap uncertainty.

this is why teams weee not taking other teams high salaried players

on Buffalo they have quite a few players on ELCs or bridge contracts who will be getting higher contracts in the next 2-5 yrs if they develop. This is true with others with space

it’s why Bjorkstrand went for so little in return

the other factor in play is the potential free agents out there in 2023-2025 and teams looking at signing them if they get in the open market. They look at their roster structure and say do I wepant to middle of the road anpvg joe players who combined make abou the same as me signing this future UFA and promoting a prospect who was drafted in the 1st?

 

[Kcoyote3]

Last season training camp until before March:

FEBRUARY 22: Boston Bruins acquire the rights to defenseman Michael Callahan from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for a seventh-round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft. | Bruins acquire rights to defenseman Callahan from Coyotes



FEBRUARY 21: Toronto Maple Leafs acquire goalie Carter Hutton from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for future considerations. | Coyotes trade Hutton to Maple Leafs



FEBRUARY 19: Arizona Coyotes acquire forward Nick Ritchie and a conditional pick in the NHL Draft from the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for forward Ryan Dzingel and defenseman Ilya Lyubushkin. | Ritchie traded to Coyotes by Maple Leafs for Dzingel, Lyubushkin



FEBRUARY 14: Calgary Flames acquire forward Tyler Toffoli from the Montreal Canadiens in exchange for forward Tyler Pitlick, the rights to unsigned draft choice forward Emil Heineman, first-round pick in the 2022 or 2023 NHL Draft, fifth-round pick in the 2023 NHL Draft, a conditional fourth-round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft. | Flames acquire Toffoli from Canadiens



FEBRUARY 12: Montreal Canadiens acquire goalie Andrew Hammond from the Minnesota Wild in exchange for forward Brandon Baddock | Candiens acquire Hammond from Wild



FEBRUARY 1: Tampa Bay Lightning acquire center Anthony Richard from the Nashville Predators in exchange for center Jimmy Huntington. | Lightning acquire Richard from Predators



FEBRUARY 1: Tampa Bay Lightning acquire forward Tye Felhaber from the Dallas Stars in exchange for forward Alexei Lipanov. | Lightning acquire Felhaber from Stars



JANUARY 5: Chicago Blackhawks acquire forward Sam Lafferty from the Pittsburgh Penguins in exchange for forward Alex Nylander. | Blackhawks acquire Lafferty from Penguins



DECEMBER 29: Minnesota Wild acquire forward Nolan Stevens from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for forward Will Bitten. | Wild acquire Stevens from Blues



DECEMBER 15: New Jersey Devils acquire goaltender Jon Gillies from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for future considerations. | Devils acquire Gillies from Blues



DECEMBER 9: Chicago Blackhawks acquire forward Kurtis Gabriel from the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for defenseman Chad Krys. | Blackhawks acquire Gabriel from Maple Leafs



DECEMBER 2: Buffalo Sabres acquire goaltender Malcolm Subban from the Chicago Blackhawks in exchange for future considerations. | Sabres acquire Subban from Blackhawks



NOVEMBER 30: Nashville Predators acquire forward Kole Sherwood from the Ottawa Senators in exchange for future considerations. | Predators acquire Sherwood from Senators



NOVEMBER 16: Toronto Maple Leafs acquire forward Kyle Clifford from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for future considerations. | Maple Leafs acquire Clifford from Blues



NOVEMBER 4: Vegas Golden Knights acquire forward Jack Eichel from the Buffalo Sabres in exchange for forward Peyton Krebs, forward Alex Tuch, a first-round pick in the 2022 or 2023 NHL Draft and a second-round pick in the 2023 or 2024 NHL Draft. | Golden Knights acquire Eichel from Sabres



OCTOBER 24: Ottawa Senators acquire forward Dylan Gambrell from the San Jose Sharks in exchange for a seventh-round pick in the 2022 NHL Draft. | Senators acquire Gambrell from Sharks



OCTOBER 10: Florida Panthers acquire defenseman Olli Juolevi from the Vancouver Canucks in exchange for forward Juho Lammikko and defenseman Noah Juulsen. | Juolevi traded to Panthers by Canucks



SEPTEMBER 25: Ottawa Senators acquire forward Zach Sanford from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for forward Logan Brown and a conditional fourth-round pick in the 2022 NHL Draft. | Sanford traded to Senators by Blues for Brown



SEPTEMBER 4: Montreal Canadiens acquire center Christian Dvorak from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for conditional first-round picks in the 2022 NHL Draft and a second-round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft. | Dvorak traded to Canadiens by Coyotes

 

[cwede]

I think there is obvi very fewer in season trades, given Cap, recent flat Cap, and the emerging trend, over last decade, of young players consuming much more Cap space than before.
But i also think this season may be the best test of the situation, with many highly regarded teams having disappointing starts, and some underestimated teams starting strong.
(Yes thats been the case other seasons)
But there are enough motivated teams to crunch the numbers and find matches for roster-tweaks and scenery-changes .
And the promise of rising Cap will tempt some GMs to commit future $$, often recklessly

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Last season training camp until before March:

FEBRUARY 22: Boston Bruins acquire the rights to defenseman Michael Callahan from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for a seventh-round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft. | Bruins acquire rights to defenseman Callahan from Coyotes



FEBRUARY 21: Toronto Maple Leafs acquire goalie Carter Hutton from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for future considerations. | Coyotes trade Hutton to Maple Leafs



FEBRUARY 19: Arizona Coyotes acquire forward Nick Ritchie and a conditional pick in the NHL Draft from the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for forward Ryan Dzingel and defenseman Ilya Lyubushkin. | Ritchie traded to Coyotes by Maple Leafs for Dzingel, Lyubushkin



FEBRUARY 14: Calgary Flames acquire forward Tyler Toffoli from the Montreal Canadiens in exchange for forward Tyler Pitlick, the rights to unsigned draft choice forward Emil Heineman, first-round pick in the 2022 or 2023 NHL Draft, fifth-round pick in the 2023 NHL Draft, a conditional fourth-round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft. | Flames acquire Toffoli from Canadiens



FEBRUARY 12: Montreal Canadiens acquire goalie Andrew Hammond from the Minnesota Wild in exchange for forward Brandon Baddock | Candiens acquire Hammond from Wild



FEBRUARY 1: Tampa Bay Lightning acquire center Anthony Richard from the Nashville Predators in exchange for center Jimmy Huntington. | Lightning acquire Richard from Predators



FEBRUARY 1: Tampa Bay Lightning acquire forward Tye Felhaber from the Dallas Stars in exchange for forward Alexei Lipanov. | Lightning acquire Felhaber from Stars



JANUARY 5: Chicago Blackhawks acquire forward Sam Lafferty from the Pittsburgh Penguins in exchange for forward Alex Nylander. | Blackhawks acquire Lafferty from Penguins



DECEMBER 29: Minnesota Wild acquire forward Nolan Stevens from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for forward Will Bitten. | Wild acquire Stevens from Blues



DECEMBER 15: New Jersey Devils acquire goaltender Jon Gillies from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for future considerations. | Devils acquire Gillies from Blues



DECEMBER 9: Chicago Blackhawks acquire forward Kurtis Gabriel from the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for defenseman Chad Krys. | Blackhawks acquire Gabriel from Maple Leafs



DECEMBER 2: Buffalo Sabres acquire goaltender Malcolm Subban from the Chicago Blackhawks in exchange for future considerations. | Sabres acquire Subban from Blackhawks



NOVEMBER 30: Nashville Predators acquire forward Kole Sherwood from the Ottawa Senators in exchange for future considerations. | Predators acquire Sherwood from Senators



NOVEMBER 16: Toronto Maple Leafs acquire forward Kyle Clifford from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for future considerations. | Maple Leafs acquire Clifford from Blues



NOVEMBER 4: Vegas Golden Knights acquire forward Jack Eichel from the Buffalo Sabres in exchange for forward Peyton Krebs, forward Alex Tuch, a first-round pick in the 2022 or 2023 NHL Draft and a second-round pick in the 2023 or 2024 NHL Draft. | Golden Knights acquire Eichel from Sabres



OCTOBER 24: Ottawa Senators acquire forward Dylan Gambrell from the San Jose Sharks in exchange for a seventh-round pick in the 2022 NHL Draft. | Senators acquire Gambrell from Sharks



OCTOBER 10: Florida Panthers acquire defenseman Olli Juolevi from the Vancouver Canucks in exchange for forward Juho Lammikko and defenseman Noah Juulsen. | Juolevi traded to Panthers by Canucks



SEPTEMBER 25: Ottawa Senators acquire forward Zach Sanford from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for forward Logan Brown and a conditional fourth-round pick in the 2022 NHL Draft. | Sanford traded to Senators by Blues for Brown



SEPTEMBER 4: Montreal Canadiens acquire center Christian Dvorak from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for conditional first-round picks in the 2022 NHL Draft and a second-round pick in the 2024 NHL Draft. | Dvorak traded to Canadiens by Coyotes

I'm not sure why you posted this.

Can you do a comparison to offseason/trade deadline now?

Myself or LeBrun never said that trades don't even happen in the Reg. season. His point was that most teams are stuck with who they have. Even a big trade like Eichel didn't impact VGK until this season (due to many injuries, etc.). I see your point. It's not impossible, but likely the offseason has the majority of transactions.

 

[AvroArrow]

The salary cap is only in place to ensure smaller market teams can compete when it comes to bidding for stars players in FA. All it does is ensure an "affordable" salary for owners/gms. In a no salary cap world teams like Toronto/Montreal/New York/Boston would be throwing 20M+ at star players, smaller market teams would not be able to compete. Markets that are already struggling to stay afloat would be crushed, smaller league with far fewer teams.

 

[Kcoyote3]

I'm not sure why you posted this.

Can you do a comparison to offseason/trade deadline now?

Myself or LeBrun never said that trades don't even happen in the Reg. season. His point was that most teams are stuck with who they have. Even a big trade like Eichel didn't impact VGK until this season (due to many injuries, etc.). I see your point. It's not impossible, but likely the offseason has the majority of transactions.

I posted it so people can have a sense of how many trades take place during the season and then make their own judgments on whether that was a lot or a little.

 

[Ruthervin]

Nothing will ever stop shitposters from shitposting.

Not entirely true my friend.

I am a shitposter but have incurred too many warnings and infractions to create threads unfortunately.

 

[TBF1972]

DECEMBER 15: New Jersey Devils acquire goaltender Jon Gillies from the St. Louis Blues in exchange for future considerations. | Devils acquire Gillies from Blues

can you please stop with this crudelity? us devils fans try to remove him of our memory.