The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

[1972]

ROR is a great hockey player, but he also brought a very negative strong personality to a young team. Moving him is going to end up being the right move IMO.

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[tsujimoto74]

John Vogl had another Q&A and mentioned the ROR trade -


Live Q&A: John Vogl answers your Sabres questions on...
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This is not the first time we’ve seen reliable media members say stuff like this.

I was mad when ROR was traded. I hated to see him go. But as much as we may not like it, sometimes it’s best for everyone if a guy moves on and unfortunately I think this was one of those times.

It's unfortunate because he's such a tremendous 200' center, but having the right combination of pieces isn't just about what each of your guys can do on the ice. The early returns certainly seem positive for us. Hopefully this new group can take these first couple wins and build up some confidence and momentum and keep it rolling.
And hopefully ROR works out for St. Louis, too.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

John Vogl had another Q&A and mentioned the ROR trade -


Live Q&A: John Vogl answers your Sabres questions on...
(subscription required)

This is not the first time we’ve seen reliable media members say stuff like this.

I was mad when ROR was traded. I hated to see him go. But as much as we may not like it, sometimes it’s best for everyone if a guy moves on and unfortunately I think this was one of those times.

Vogl isn’t reliable on this subject. He’s chummy with Housley and can’t badmouth Lehner.

 

[old kummelweck]

John Vogl had another Q&A and mentioned the ROR trade -


Live Q&A: John Vogl answers your Sabres questions on...
(subscription required)

This is not the first time we’ve seen reliable media members say stuff like this.

I was mad when ROR was traded. I hated to see him go. But as much as we may not like it, sometimes it’s best for everyone if a guy moves on and unfortunately I think this was one of those times.

Pick your poison when it comes to trying to sort out the cause of issues last year. From a mopey ROR, to bi-polar alcoholic goalie, to a bunch of vets they signed that just didn't care; how can you pinpoint just one change that has helped this team?

 

[Jim Bob]

Pick your poison when it comes to trying to sort out the cause of issues last year. From a mopey ROR, to bi-polar alcoholic goalie, to a bunch of vets they signed that just didn't care; how can you pinpoint just one change that has helped this team?

Maybe ROR's attitude drove Lehner to drink....

 

[old kummelweck]

Maybe ROR's attitude drove Lehner to drink....

God knows it drove me to.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Pick your poison when it comes to trying to sort out the cause of issues last year. From a mopey ROR, to bi-polar alcoholic goalie, to a bunch of vets they signed that just didn't care; how can you pinpoint just one change that has helped this team?

I agree. It’s hard to point to just 1 change.

But the reason I posted that wasn’t really for the question. It was for the part of Vogl’s answer that I bolded.
The part about how the move has to be made because too many players were being sucked in to ROR’s “woe is me” vortex.

Vogl isn’t reliable on this subject. He’s chummy with Housley and can’t badmouth Lehner.

I disagree.

IMO, I think John Vogl is probably the most reliable Sabres reporter.

But he’s not the only one who said something along these lines, either.
There have been numerous reporters who have said similar things.

 

[old kummelweck]

But he’s not the only one who said something along these lines, either.
There have been numerous reporters who have said similar things.

Hamilton has mentioned it FWIW.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Hamilton has mentioned it FWIW.

While I do believe the accuracy of the general statement about ROR, citing The Hammer isn't great for your argument.

 

[Zip15]

Maybe ROR's attitude drove Lehner to drink....

"ROR," "drove," and "drink"...

There's a joke in there somewhere.

 

[sabremike]

ROR is a great hockey player, but he also brought a very negative strong personality to a young team. Moving him is going to end up being the right move IMO.

The only way it ends up being the right move is after we finish bottom 5-8 (whereas with ROR we probably challenge for a playoff spot) we win the lottery and Jack Hughes. Trades based on narative and not talent usually end up very bad.

 

[sabrebuild]

The O’Reilly narrative is so boring. Nothing concrete has ever been said. It’s just a never ending echo chamber from management mouth pieces.

Guess what, after game 1, Eichel came out and said he needed to be better... yet nobody came crying about him having a bad attitude.

Trade over, yada yada, but enough with the culture change bs, or strong negative personality. Its silly.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The O’Reilly narrative is so boring. Nothing concrete has ever been said. It’s just a never ending echo chamber from management mouth pieces.

Guess what, after game 1, Eichel came out and said he needed to be better... yet nobody came crying about him having a bad attitude.

Trade over, yada yada, but enough with the culture change bs, or strong negative personality. Its silly.

Well the front office took action over it. And while we done know any details, there is not only smoke but a resulting trade. Hardly silly.

It could have been anything from trade ROR because of his public comments and it was a dumb decision, or ten players begged Botts to get rid of him because his attitude and constant playing of Mad World bummed them out

 

[Dingo44]

The only way it ends up being the right move is after we finish bottom 5-8 (whereas with ROR we probably challenge for a playoff spot) we win the lottery and Jack Hughes. Trades based on narative and not talent usually end up very bad.

That's not even close to the only way.

 

[sabremike]

That's not even close to the only way.

I mean if Tage ends up being an all star and the mid-late round first ends up being the next Barzal I guess, but that isn't very likely either. This whole thing just reminds me so much of Taylor Hall right down to the character assasinations.

 

[Dingo44]

I mean if Tage ends up being an all star and the mid-late round first ends up being the next Barzal I guess, but that isn't very likely either. This whole thing just reminds me so much of Taylor Hall right down to the character assasinations.

Still not the only way and also setting too high a bar.

 

[sabrebuild]

Well the front office took action over it. And while we done know any details, there is not only smoke but a resulting trade. Hardly silly.

It could have been anything from trade ROR because of his public comments and it was a dumb decision, or ten players begged Botts to get rid of him because his attitude and constant playing of Mad World bummed them out

Ya if ten guys wanted him cut, it would have come out. Just like with Kane and a bunch of other guys.

I’m obviously suggesting that the overall narrative was seeded by O’Reilly being honest at the end of the year, and then management running with it hard, because they wanted to get rid of him and quickly and knew they took a loss on what they might have gotten if they were willing to take their time. 3 months, a year, as long as O’Reilly kept playing well, which he clearly did, he would be very valuable. Then when you see them actually improve the team with cheap assets, that were predictably available, you realize that they knew they would improve the overall team, particularly with Dahlin filling the most needed spot, and filling it well.

Did the Pegulas feel slapped by a guy they stood by after a dwi, talking poorly about the team? Absolutely. Have they not regularly discussed their beliefs. This was the final straw.

I don’t disagree with any of that generally or other theories.

But the idea that O’Reilly’s attitude was a big negative influence, and the team played poorly because he wasn’t a blind cheerleader, of which no one was on the team, is total junk spin.

They have looked as a team, ok, with only Berglund making a moderately positive influence so far.

Sobotka was fine in the opener for his role, but has been completely replaced while out.

I guarantee the team’s attitude and success level would be the same or better with O’Reilly on it right now.

As I said trade over, but we don’t need to lie to ourselves.

 

[sabremike]

Still not the only way and also setting too high a bar.

OK I'll bite: how do you see the trade working out as a win?

 

[Dingo44]

OK I'll bite: how do you see the trade working out as a win?

Well, it's not on me to really prove the negative to your statement, but I'd be fine with this.

Tage is a solid winger on your second or third lines, moving where needed, putting up 25 goals/50+ points and being fine defensively.
Berglund continues to be a solid center, being moved up and down the lineup, and playing on the PK and taking critical faceoffs. As his career winds down, still being a good contributor to the fourth line. Also he is a leader in the room and a role model, especially for all our current and incoming Swedes.
Sobotka is useful in a third or fourth line role, also good defensively and on the draw, and drawing the occasional penalty.
First rounder is a solid roster player who can slow cook in the U.S. college system and/or overseas and then can eventually be an entry level contract to replace guys who price themselves off the roster when they're a UFA when we're really good. First or second line forward or top 4 D would be nice but that's not an absolute.
The second rounder is a crapshoot, but maybe we get a good player who slides like an Asplund, Davidsson, UPL, or Samuelsson, or maybe it gets moved in a trade to get other assets. It's a nice piece to have.
ROR is gone and Jack is the unquestioned leader in the dressing room. Hockey is fun again.

If most of that happens, I'll be more than satisfied. I like what I see so far.

 

[sabremike]

Well, it's not on me to really prove the negative to your statement, but I'd be fine with this.

Tage is a solid winger on your second or third lines, moving where needed, putting up 25 goals/50+ points and being fine defensively.
Berglund continues to be a solid center, being moved up and down the lineup, and playing on the PK and taking critical faceoffs. As his career winds down, still being a good contributor to the fourth line. Also he is a leader in the room and a role model, especially for all our current and incoming Swedes.
Sobotka is useful in a third or fourth line role, also good defensively and on the draw, and drawing the occasional penalty.
First rounder is a solid roster player who can slow cook in the U.S. college system and/or overseas and then can eventually be an entry level contract to replace guys who price themselves off the roster when they're a UFA when we're really good. First or second line forward or top 4 D would be nice but that's not an absolute.
The second rounder is a crapshoot, but maybe we get a good player who slides like an Asplund, Davidsson, UPL, or Samuelsson, or maybe it gets moved in a trade to get other assets. It's a nice piece to have.
ROR is gone and Jack is the unquestioned leader in the dressing room. Hockey is fun again.

If most of that happens, I'll be more than satisfied. I like what I see so far.

Really don't think much of that will happen but you get a "like" for a well thought out answer that while I don't agree with it is in no way insane or ridiculous, and in fact constructive.

 

[GameMisconduct]

Hamilton has mentioned it FWIW.

Generally if it comes from Hamilton and is not an objective observation (e.g. So and so was not at practice) it's not worth very much.

Also, and not as indictment of any one specific, media members like anyone are likely to pick up a narrative.

On the trade, though I'd rather we had RoR, the fact that any sort of 'Eureka!' moment regarding the motivations is highly unlikely at this point, and that it's possible for the trade to be flawed and have some benefits as well, makes these discussions mostly just exhausting for me at this point.

Hopefully the Sabres are interesting and relevant enough this season that other topics eclipse this one.

 

[pigpen65]

"Every player has warts." : Tim Murray

Especially the ones that lose a lot. : Me

 

[Paxon]

"Every player has warts." : Tim Murray

Especially the ones that lose a lot. : Me

So, every player on our roster

 

[Buffaloed]

I think RoR has a medical disorder just like Lehner. I wouldn't be surprised if he suffers from seasonal affective disorder (SAD) and it starts from the day the puck is dropped and lasts until the offseason. That's why Botterill shies away from acquiring Canadian players. They don't get enough sun. In Sweden everyone has a sauna with lighting that replicates natural sunlight. This is required by law. I doubt if RoR has ever been treated. His switch to a vegetarian diet is his body's way of telling him he needs more vitamin D. It's like when kids eat dirt because they have a mineral deficiency. Don't be too hard on RoR. It's not his fault. But he has to be better.

 

[Beerz]

We basically traded

ROR
JT Compher
Zadorov
Grigorenko
Early 2nd Round pick

For

Bergland
Sabotka
Thompson
Late 1st Round

Thats ugly