Speculation: The Roster Building Thread: Titles May Not Reflect Actual Discussion

[bh2007]

I'm Habs fan. I like the potential but struggling T. Myers. If I'm M.B., I think I'll take a chance to acquire him.

Do Sabres fans think if this kind of offer should work :

To Buffalo : M. Pacioretty + J. Gorges
To Montreal : T. Myers + D. Stafford

In term of salary, it's almost equal (9.5M go to Montreal; 8.4M to Buffalo).

Picks or C level prospect can be added to balance out.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

puck handling isn't a dimension...and a bunch more gibber jabber with foggy, opinionated definitions about how to describe players.

I think something more than the Iginla trade and less than their Pommer trade is the ball park for a "futures" trade.

I'd argue that Buffalo should be looking towards some veteran, prime talent with years... instead of all "futures" trades.

Some silly, cherry-picked comparison to Olli Jokinen.

Vanek is not in his prime (factually... someone else can repost the scoring/age numbers. Vanek is exiting his prime as we speak.

"One dimensional" implies that a player does one, and only one thing well. That's not Vanek, end of story.

I agree that Vanek would get something between the Iginla and Pominville deals, so I'll ignore the Jokinen comment.

There are plenty of skilled players that still produce into age 31-33, and Vanek just put together one of his better stretches through 40 some games. He's not going through the exit door for a few seasons.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Jeff Carter is not a one-dimensional player.

I agree, but he's been very close to that while playing for LA, and he flies in the face of the point Jame was trying to make - that " a one-dimensional goal scorer never put a team over the top".

Carter has been just scoring for LA, and not much else. Obviously he carries the puck sometimes, makes some passes, draws tough match-ups and potentially allows easier match-ups for other lines. He's a great player, but so is Vanek, and if you're going to call either one of them "one-dimensional" these days well, it's not going to be the guy that had 14 more assists on a terrible offensive team.

 

[Jame]

"One dimensional" implies that a player does one, and only one thing well. That's not Vanek, end of story.

I agree that Vanek would get something between the Iginla and Pominville deals, so I'll ignore the Jokinen comment.

There are plenty of skilled players that still produce into age 31-33, and Vanek just put together one of his better stretches through 40 some games. He's not going through the exit door for a few seasons.

a dimension is made up of multiple points (skills) within a space (player). Being great at Deflections in front of the net, AND having a killer Slapshot is not 2 different dimensions... those are 2 skills that are part of making up the First Line Scorer dimension of Vanek's game.

You seem confused between dimensions and skills

The jokinen trade is something that falls between Pommer/Iginla trades...

Ballard was a young top 4 at the time... you can ignore the Jokinen trade if it makes you feel better, but in reality you should learn something by familiarizing yourself with the reality of trades in the NHL.

Franly, the Jokinen to Calgary trade (1.5 seasons remaining) would be even more relatable (Lombardi, Prust, 1st)

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Dude....give it up already. Vanek can score, and as we all have discussed ad nauseum he showed his puck handling skills when he carried the play after getting split from Roy. The guy made a ton of plays this season that set up linemates. You're just being a stubborn hard-head as usual.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

I'm Habs fan. I like the potential but struggling T. Myers. If I'm M.B., I think I'll take a chance to acquire him.

Do Sabres fans think if this kind of offer should work :

To Buffalo : M. Pacioretty + J. Gorges
To Montreal : T. Myers + D. Stafford

In term of salary, it's almost equal (9.5M go to Montreal; 8.4M to Buffalo).

Picks or C level prospect can be added to balance out.

I have no interest in that deal.

 

[DJN21]

I'm Habs fan. I like the potential but struggling T. Myers. If I'm M.B., I think I'll take a chance to acquire him.

Do Sabres fans think if this kind of offer should work :

To Buffalo : M. Pacioretty + J. Gorges
To Montreal : T. Myers + D. Stafford

In term of salary, it's almost equal (9.5M go to Montreal; 8.4M to Buffalo).

Picks or C level prospect can be added to balance out.

Emelin needs to be coming our way in a deal

 

[Jame]

Dude....give it up already. Vanek can score, and as we all have discussed ad nauseum he showed his puck handling skills when he carried the play after getting split from Roy. The guy made a ton of plays this season that set up linemates. You're just being a stubborn hard-head as usual.

Vanek's a better player when the puck is on his stick, no doubt... but puck handling is not a skillset that he operates at any sort of special level. He's not a great possession forward at all. For such a high end scorer he has an obscenely low Corsi.

Once you understand what a Dimension is, you will slowly realize that calling Vanek 1 Dimensional, isn't an insult, it's simply an accurate characterization.

There is nothing for me to be stubborn about. I provide historical context for my assessment of trade value, and provide background on the labels I put on players.

Im not the stubborn one

 

[Jame]

Vanek and #8
for
#4 and Ryan Ellis

?

 

[AmerksPuck]

I still think the first move they need to make is find a #1 center and get Hodgson the hell out of there. That guy could care less about the defensive end of the rink. Tough to find a #1 I know, but Hodgson drives me crazy out there.

 

[wunderpanda]

Vanek and #8
for
#4 and Ryan Ellis

?

I would consider it, Ellis is small but effective, could help the powerplay. Maybe we throw in Gerbe for the rights to Radulov

 

[thefifagod]

I still think the first move they need to make is find a #1 center and get Hodgson the hell out of there. That guy could care less about the defensive end of the rink. Tough to find a #1 I know, but Hodgson drives me crazy out there.

So get rid of one of the guys who has the potential to be a #1? Color me confused.

 

[1972]

Vanek is one dimensional in the sense that if he is not producing he is not helping you win. He is not the type of player that can carry a team night in/out

 

[HockeyH3aven]

Vanek and #8
for
#4 and Ryan Ellis

?

Could you imagine if Darcy actually made this trade? Most Sabres fans would absolutely lose it.

I'd consider it but I doubt an NHL GM would every make a trade like that.

 

[haseoke39]

I'm Habs fan. I like the potential but struggling T. Myers. If I'm M.B., I think I'll take a chance to acquire him.

Do Sabres fans think if this kind of offer should work :

To Buffalo : M. Pacioretty + J. Gorges
To Montreal : T. Myers + D. Stafford

In term of salary, it's almost equal (9.5M go to Montreal; 8.4M to Buffalo).

Picks or C level prospect can be added to balance out.

This kind of offer has good value, but I think we want to keep Myers for the same reasons you probably want him: too much potential still. If we were looking to bolster our wingers and wanted to make a run soon, this might work, but we're rebuilding, and Myers is young enough and still too tempting to hang onto for anything but an overpayment.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

Vanek is one dimensional in the sense that if he is not producing he is not helping you win. He is not the type of player that can carry a team night in/out

I agree that Vanek's defensive play will not help the team win on most nights. I doubt too many folk would argue that. However, when he is not scoring goals himself, he is still quite capable of setting others up.

Goal Scoring "dimension": Check
Playmaking "dimension": Check
Defensive "dimension": Nope. Adequate, but nothing special.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

This is what I see (pluses and minuses) with Vanek's value:

On the plus side, you have his scoring and playmaking abilities. In addition, he can be traded to any team. On the down side, you do only have one year on the contract left. There is also the factor of his salary. I think it's a safe bet that if the Sabres move Vanek, they are eating part of his salary. We'll see what ends up happening. I'd like to see him stay a Sabre, but I wouldn't blame him for leaving.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Vanek's a better player when the puck is on his stick, no doubt... but puck handling is not a skillset that he operates at any sort of special level. He's not a great possession forward at all. For such a high end scorer he has an obscenely low Corsi.

Once you understand what a Dimension is, you will slowly realize that calling Vanek 1 Dimensional, isn't an insult, it's simply an accurate characterization.

There is nothing for me to be stubborn about. I provide historical context for my assessment of trade value, and provide background on the labels I put on players.

Im not the stubborn one

Agree. Which is why Ennis-Vanek might work short term or on the power play, but I'd question putting them together long term. Ennis is better when he has the puck on his stick as well.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Vanek and #8
for
#4 and Ryan Ellis

?

I'd do it. Maybe something a little more from Nashville, eg: 2014 non-first round picks.

 

[Jacob582]

So get rid of one of the guys who has the potential to be a #1? Color me confused.

Will Hodgson be a #1 center on a cup winning team? He has a long way to go (defensive development) if that is the case.

 

[sba]

Derek Brassard looks good in the playoffs....we should trade 3 firsts for him.

 

[Jacob582]

I'm Habs fan. I like the potential but struggling T. Myers. If I'm M.B., I think I'll take a chance to acquire him.

Do Sabres fans think if this kind of offer should work :

To Buffalo : M. Pacioretty + J. Gorges
To Montreal : T. Myers + D. Stafford

In term of salary, it's almost equal (9.5M go to Montreal; 8.4M to Buffalo).

Picks or C level prospect can be added to balance out.

D.R. should have offered Myers to M.B. for Subban last summer.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

Vanek and #8
for
#4 and Ryan Ellis

?

I wouldn't consider this unless I knew for sure that Vanek wouldn't re-sign with us. Maybe it's just that I don't think that highly of Ellis, but I'd have to think really highly of someone to give up my franchise goal scorer to move 4 spots in the draft. Even if I knew Vanek wouldn't re-sign, I'd be more inclined to do 16+Vanek for the 4th pick + Ellis. I'm not opposed to making a serious offer (like both firsts and a couple of seconds or Ennis, etc.) to move up in this draft, but I think this would be way too much.

If Vanek is willing to stay for another contract, we'd be really stupid to give up this kind of value to move 4 spots in the draft. For Vanek, I'd be looking for a top ten pick outright + something, or a later 1st rounder + a top prospect. Neither scenario would include us giving up #8 too. That's crazy, IMO.

 

[stokes84]

Will Hodgson be a #1 center on a cup winning team? He has a long way to go (defensive development) if that is the case.

Or a playoff team for that matter.

 

[AmerksPuck]

Or a playoff team for that matter.

I'm with you guys on this one- I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to move him this past deadline/this off season. Great offensive instincts/skill but just brings nothing defensively and is soft as hell. Not a winning combo.