The Rebuild/Tank Related GDT Thread #17, currently 6th. worst team.

[Cor]

2015 Draft Picks

1st Round Picks - (2) [TOR, NSH]
2nd Round Picks - (0)
3rd Round Picks - (1)
4th Round Picks - (2) [TOR, PIT]
5th Round Picks -(1)
6th Round Picks - (1)
7th Round Picks - (1)

Total: 8 Picks

2016 Draft Picks

1st Round Picks - (1)
2nd Round Picks - (2) [TOR, PIT]
3rd Round Picks - (1)
4th Round Picks - (1)
5th Round Picks -(2) [TOR, ANA]
6th Round Picks - (2) [TOR, STL] **
7th Round Picks - (1)

Total: 10 Picks

**STL 6th in 2016 could become a 4th in 2015 if STL makes cup final
​

Click to read more...

 

[Durrr]

again (i feel like i've been saying this all day)
i think they have to be as patient as they need to be without losing all value. it took Buffalo 3.5 years to get rid of their stinky contracts. our contracts will have 5 (for Dion), 3 (Bozak), 3 (Lupul), and 7 (Kessel) that is a LOT of term for a very small/not rising cap.

my play would be - getting rid of Dion (and hold firm - prospect, pick, dump. that is it. if they want retention, they have to pay for said rentention)

I'd be playing up that Bozak can play anywhere (basically - we'll ignore the fact that really 'well" without elite talent - so in case of injuries, he can for the most part settle in. Faceoffs (esp. in playoffs) are key and he's great on that and good on a PK/shorthanded situation, and he's good at scoring goals off that as well).

Lupul i'd be saying he does have the ability to be a game changer and they SAVE MONEY when hes on the LTIR. (i'd take back less value on that one - i think the scary things for teams is that he's injured - i'd also point out a lot of his injuries are flukes, not chronic things that a lot of player deal with).

Phil i would hold on - my price would be a prospect, b prospect, 1st round pick
(or. 1st round pick, and lots of B prospects) it's 35 goals + PPG in the playoffs. 8 million is a lot but not a lot of people can claim that as well.

Agreed, people seem to think that trading these players now for anything is the best move, when thats not even close to true. Our rebuild really depends on the return for guys like Kessel/Dion.

As for your returns, Kessel should get an A prospect, B prospect and a midfirst OR a top 10 pick and a B~ prospect. If the players we get in return don't have at least a chance of becoming a player like Kessel then I say we keep him. This means top 10 picks or A prospects, otherwise it's worth more just to have him stay.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Agreed, people seem to think that trading these players now for anything is the best move, when thats not even close to true. Our rebuild really depends on the return for guys like Kessel/Dion.

As for your returns, Kessel should get an A prospect, B prospect and a midfirst OR a top 10 pick and a B~ prospect. If the players we get in return don't have at least a chance of becoming a player like Kessel then I say we keep him. This means top 10 picks or A prospects, otherwise it's worth more just to have him stay.

yes sorry - i'm not too picky on that.

I think (per Leaf tradition) we just got super duper unlucky with OUR first round picks being 2nd OVA, 9th OVA. we can't expect that nor the quality, but I do believe people should be paying for a guaranteed 30+ goal scorer. + PPG

again - people want to work themselves into "ohoo this isn't gonna be a rebuild, or retool, etc." i figure just... wait and see what happens. It MIGHT NOT. and i guarantee you, more people will be pissed off if we traded for the sake of trading, vs. waiting to get an appropriate haul. and I say this as someone who wants every aspect of the core gone.

as my granddaddy used to say - do not cut your nose off to spite your face.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Former first rounder. Young player. 6'3 205lbs. Low risk. High reward. I like it..not a bad pickup, Erixon never had a big chance with Chicago

 

[showtime8]

again (i feel like i've been saying this all day)
i think they have to be as patient as they need to be without losing all value. it took Buffalo 3.5 years to get rid of their stinky contracts. our contracts will have 5 (for Dion), 3 (Bozak), 3 (Lupul), and 7 (Kessel) that is a LOT of term for a very small/not rising cap.

my play would be - getting rid of Dion (and hold firm - prospect, pick, dump. that is it. if they want retention, they have to pay for said rentention)

I'd be playing up that Bozak can play anywhere (basically - we'll ignore the fact that really 'well" without elite talent - so in case of injuries, he can for the most part settle in. Faceoffs (esp. in playoffs) are key and he's great on that and good on a PK/shorthanded situation, and he's good at scoring goals off that as well).

Lupul i'd be saying he does have the ability to be a game changer and they SAVE MONEY when hes on the LTIR. (i'd take back less value on that one - i think the scary things for teams is that he's injured - i'd also point out a lot of his injuries are flukes, not chronic things that a lot of player deal with).


Phil i would hold on - my price would be a prospect, b prospect, 1st round pick
(or. 1st round pick, and lots of B prospects) it's 35 goals + PPG in the playoffs. 8 million is a lot but not a lot of people can claim that as well.

To be honest, I want all of those guys away from the team.

To watch some of the players just simply quit on the team, it's almost embarrassing.

With Dion's contract, his play is going to decline heavily over time and it's going to look even worse and it will be even harder to move him in another year or 2. I would have moved him at this deadline, but since he wasn''t moved, it has to be 100% in the summer.

The Leafs didn't look terrible without Dion and they didnt look any better.

Kessel has to score to be effective. He doesn't kill penalties or throew huge hits, but we knew that when they got him. That being said, if the Leafs are starting over, he's got to go. I'm asking for a really good young centreman, plus an A prospect and a roster player.

There is patience and waiting 3.5 years to get rid of guys that can be moved over a 6 month period.

 

[Daisy Jane]

To be honest, I want all of those guys away from the team.

To watch some of the players just simply quit on the team, it's almost embarrassing.

With Dion's contract, his play is going to decline heavily over time and it's going to look even worse and it will be even harder to move him in another year or 2. I would have moved him at this deadline, but since he wasn''t moved, it has to be 100% in the summer.

The Leafs didn't look terrible without Dion and they didnt look any better.

Kessel has to score to be effective. He doesn't kill penalties or throew huge hits, but we knew that when they got him. That being said, if the Leafs are starting over, he's got to go. I'm asking for a really good young centreman, plus an A prospect and a roster player.

There is patience and waiting 3.5 years to get rid of guys that can be moved over a 6 month period.

look - I'm with you. I want them gone too.
but if you can find a team who can absorb 8 million dollars for the next 7 years (+ a cap dump + paying our price) within 6 months. do it. if you can't, you just (i feel) go "well, we'll take option D which is garbage bits.

Like i said. considering how hard Nonis stood firm on Phaneuf just makes me feel that while they want them gone - they're not going to just simply roll over and play dead and accept crap - nor should we. and if it doesn't take 6 months, i don't think we (collective we) should be beating the drum, calling them liars, and rebuilds aren't happening.

i think we have to be realistic, that while Nonis handicapped our team, the worst thing he (or anyone) can do is handicap it further, simply by accepting anything.

if it can be done in 6 months - i believe it will be. if it's not - it took 3.5 years for Boston to shed its dead weight (and 2 if you go by the Yandle rumours). (shrug)

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It's telling when Ron Wilson was asked this morning if he had a choice between keeping one of Phil or Dion. He picked Dion without hesitation.

Said he was unfairly maligned here as a player. But it does speak to what he thinks about Kessel and his lack of competitiveness.

 

[HOCKEYGOON]

Panthers are going to come at us strong tomorrow.

 

[Divine]

What a disappointing trade deadline. I know it was unexpected to move Phaneuf, Kessel, Lupul or Bozak but with the amount of times TSN said the Leafs were pushing them out... I was hoping at least ONE of them will be gone.

Now watch them show up to games and start the drive for 9th place.


Look at Buffalo, they perfected the tank. Traded any decent defenceman, goalie, or any forward that scored in the last month.

'Rebuilding' they say.

 

[Durrr]

It's telling when Ron Wilson was asked this morning if he had a choice between keeping one of Phil or Dion. He picked Dion without hesitation.

Said he was unfairly maligned here as a player. But it does speak to what he thinks about Kessel and his lack of competitiveness.

As opposed to around 2 months ago when he said Kessel was a great player who you absolutely can win with?

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Whatever let the haters hate. I didn't see this stuff when Chicago was bad, Bruins at one point were bad, LA, and so on so fourth. Pay attention to your teams people. With Mark Hunter as our director of scouting will pay off in a few years.

 

[Vexed]

It's telling when Ron Wilson was asked this morning if he had a choice between keeping one of Phil or Dion. He picked Dion without hesitation.

Said he was unfairly maligned here as a player. But it does speak to what he thinks about Kessel and his lack of competitiveness.

Its more telling that he admitted to purposely trying to lose games as a coach

 

[Leaf Rocket]

O'Neill is saying arizona will get McDavid : http://www.tsn.ca/radio/o-neill-leafs-season-couldn-t-end-sooner-1.220088

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Whatever let the haters hate. I didn't see this stuff when Chicago was bad, Bruins at one point were bad, LA, and so on so fourth. Pay attention to your teams people. With Mark Hunter as our director of scouting will pay off in a few years.

It's our media...we love to eat people up, and noodle in the podcast I just posted has some solid point about it...saying how...yea we'll eat up the prospects lol

 

[Menzinger]

It's telling when Ron Wilson was asked this morning if he had a choice between keeping one of Phil or Dion. He picked Dion without hesitation.

Said he was unfairly maligned here as a player. But it does speak to what he thinks about Kessel and his lack of competitiveness.

Wilson stuck the C on Phaneuf - he he didn't say he preferred dion, he'd be essentially questioning his own decision making credibility

 

[lukeleim]

2015 NHL Draft

Pick Dylan Strome or Mitch Marner

Trade Dion Phaneuf to the Colorado Avalanche for Jamie McGinn, Conner Bleackley and Avalanche's 2nd round draft pick of 2016

Trade Tyler Bozak and James Reimer to the Edmonton Oilers for the Penguins' 1st round draft pick of 2015.

Trade Phil Kessel to the Florida Panthers for Erik Gudbranson, Quinton Howden and the Panthers' 1st round draft pick of 2016.

Trade Stephane Robidas to the Detroit Red Wings for Stephen Weiss.

Offseason
Resign Nazem Kadri four-year contract for $18 million
Resign Richard Panik two-year contract for $1.6 million
Resign Brandon Kozun one-year contract for $600,000
Resign Trevor Smith one-year contract for $550,000

Resign Jonathan Bernier four-year contract for $16 million
Sign Matt O'Connor
Sign Chris Stewart one-year contract for $3 million
Sign James Sheppard two-year contract $1.8 million

Trade Josh Leivo and the Leafs' 2nd round draft pick of 2016 for Michael Stone.

2015/2016 lineup
JVR - Kadri - Lupul
McGinn - Weiss - Stewart
Komarov - Holland - Panik
Sheppard - Smith - Kozun

Rielly - Gudbranson
Gardiner - Stone
Percy - Polak
Granberg

Bernier
O'Connor/Bibeau/Gibson

Tank again!

 

[A1LeafNation]

Its probably going to be a short re-build. We already have most of the new core pieces in the system:

JVR Strome Mathews(2016)
Nylander Kadri Leivo

Rielly ______
Percy Granberg

Bibeau

We need a core piece when we trade Bernier, Lupul, Phaneuf, Kessel, Bozak.

 

[Daisy Jane]

i don't know why y'all are putting time limits on this thing

i think personally we're looking at 2 ELC cycles (six years). because we're going to have some pieces that don't fit, don't work, change things around. Morgan Rielly is the 1st piece, and everything else gets slotted.

I'm not sure if I'm liking this "it will only take this long.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I agree it will be a short rebuild. I never do the future lineup thing but this is something I would 'like' to see soon enough.

JVR - Strome - Nylander
Huberdeau - Kadri - Brown
Komarov - Holland - Leipsic
Panick - Gauthier - Biggs

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Where's Leivo? Rather have leipsic slotted with Freddy and Biggs on the fourth line.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

i don't know why y'all are putting time limits on this thing

i think personally we're looking at 2 ELC cycles (six years). because we're going to have some pieces that don't fit, don't work, change things around. Morgan Rielly is the 1st piece, and everything else gets slotted.

I'm not sure if I'm liking this "it will only take this long.

We need a quality #1 C and #1 D to see where were really at. It's a must this draft.

 

[LV*]

We need a quality #1 C and #1 D to see where were really at. It's a must this draft.

#1 D - Rielly
#1 W(?) - Nylander
#1 C - Strome/Marner

Just missing one piece and then we have another shot at a high pick in 2016.

 

[080]

2015 NHL Draft

Pick Dylan Strome or Mitch Marner

Trade Dion Phaneuf to the Colorado Avalanche for Jamie McGinn, Conner Bleackley and Avalanche's 2nd round draft pick of 2016

Trade Tyler Bozak and James Reimer to the Edmonton Oilers for the Penguins' 1st round draft pick of 2015.

Trade Phil Kessel to the Florida Panthers for Erik Gudbranson, Quinton Howden and the Panthers' 1st round draft pick of 2016.

Trade Stephane Robidas to the Detroit Red Wings for Stephen Weiss.

Offseason
Resign Nazem Kadri four-year contract for $18 million
Resign Richard Panik two-year contract for $1.6 million
Resign Brandon Kozun one-year contract for $600,000
Resign Trevor Smith one-year contract for $550,000

Resign Jonathan Bernier four-year contract for $16 million
Sign Matt O'Connor
Sign Chris Stewart one-year contract for $3 million
Sign James Sheppard two-year contract $1.8 million

Trade Josh Leivo and the Leafs' 2nd round draft pick of 2016 for Michael Stone.

2015/2016 lineup
JVR - Kadri - Lupul
McGinn - Weiss - Stewart
Komarov - Holland - Panik
Sheppard - Smith - Kozun

Rielly - Gudbranson
Gardiner - Stone
Percy - Polak
Granberg

Bernier
O'Connor/Bibeau/Gibson

Tank again!

I don't think you'll see Florida trade Gudbranson or Huberdeau. They may part with two first round picks (similar to what we paid for Kessel and what St. Louis was traded for recently). That way they're not taking away from their team now. They've got their D set; they've got goaltending set; they've got their centres set; and now they need some offense on the wing beyond Huberdeau.

 

[ULF_55]

Arizona had a good day doing what we couldn't do. Getting worse in the present while simultaneously getting better in the future. It's not going to be easy holding our current position.

Arizona did great and used money as an incentive to get better returns on their deals.

They retained and bought futures, along with being in contention for one of McDavid or Eichel.

Oilers didn't do a great deal at the deadline and they've been playing better.

I think they move up and it becomes Sabres and Coyotes, 1, 2 in the lottery. Leafs moved next to no one so I won't be surprised to see them move up to 8th.

 

[Vexed]

Its probably going to be a short re-build. We already have most of the new core pieces in the system:

JVR Strome Mathews(2016)
Nylander Kadri Leivo

Rielly ______
Percy Granberg

Bibeau

We need a core piece when we trade Bernier, Lupul, Phaneuf, Kessel, Bozak.

What if Reilly plateaus, Nylander busts and Strome takes 5 seasons to see the NHL full-time?

I'm not saying that all of that is likely but that is the type of thing that happens in a rebuild and why it can take a lot of time. Besides you need depth and the first wave of ELC's isn't going to take us very far on their own. I think noodles said it best on Leafs Lunch he said he expected the Leafs would be contenders in two ELC waves (6yrs) which I tend to agree with