The Rangers aversion to the basement

[ReggieDunlop68]

Not all die hards are old farts.

Of course..

Let me clarify.

The arena is still full, but...

There are ALOT less die hard full season holders, and its not because they don't love the Rangers.

The old farts got priced out, and their kin can't get them.

 

[chosen]

Ok. Rise more evenly in price.

You know years where they don't make the playoffs the either don't raise or slightly raise the tickets?

Think of it like that.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

You originally said plummeting. Now it's rise slightly.

The stock market plummeted in 1929. It did not rise slightly.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

You originally said plummeting. Now it's rise slightly.

The stock market plummeted in 1929. It did not rise slightly.

Speaking of old fart die hards...

 

[eco's bones]

Of course..

Let me clarify.

The arena is still full, but...

There are ALOT less die hard full season holders, and its not because they don't love the Rangers.

The old farts got priced out, and their kin can't get them.

I agree with that. Pretty much I'm a working class person but I live upstate so I was never going to be buying season tickets anyway. Once in a while I'll make a journey to Mecca (or MSG--apologies to any believers of the Muslim faith)--pay a bunch of money for some seats and sometimes we've won, sometimes we've not. When I was in the Coast Guard in the early 80's I was stationed for a couple years on Governor's Island--that was when things were convenient but unfortunately that's also when those jerkoffs from Nassau Coliseum were in ascendance.

I have to say that the marketing of the game--the millions and billions flying about leaves me a bit cold. There is a point where too much wealth seems obscene to me. Though---it doesn't stop me from imagining what a particular player's share of the cap might be but it all seems abstract too. I remember reading Brad Park's book 'Play the man' when I was still a teenager and it's like he's fighting Emile Francis over like a $2,000 raise. Pretty f***ing unbelievable compared to the way things are today. I suppose it's progress and it's good for somebody but things just seemed 'purer' back then. A lot of players back then use to have summer jobs. Phil Esposito use to drive a tractor trailer. Ed Giacomin worked in a mine. During the season the Rangers all lived together in some Long Island community. Pretty crazy when you think about it.

 

[Synergy27]

There are more teams that have failed to win the Cup with bottom-5 picks than there are teams that have succeeded.

So what are you advocating as a plan for the Rangers to turn things around and win the Cup?

 

[Tawnos]

So what are you advocating as a plan for the Rangers to turn things around and win the Cup?

I don’t advocate because there are no high probability paths.

 

[smoneil]

Rebuilding and being too good to not bottom out yet be to ****ty to make the plays offs is less than “isn’t really ideal”.

It’s THE worst thing they can do.

And playing in such a manner for at best tier 1B [top 80] prospects such as Lias and Chytil can get some seasoning is just awful reasoning.

I understand the reasoning, and there are situations where I 100% agree with you (like the dark ages, where we had a full roster of mediocre veterans finishing 9-11th). In a rebuild? I don't want these kids losing every night. A losing culture can become toxic. Having them in a position to be fighting for every point down the stretch will be far more valuable (in my opinion) than an extra 10% chance at a player who may or may not be great, and who would be walking into a locker room full of folks who only know how to lose NHL games. Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Prucha, Dubi, Cally, etc broke this team out of that loser mentality. I don't ever want to see it return.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I understand the reasoning, and there are situations where I 100% agree with you (like the dark ages, where we had a full roster of mediocre veterans finishing 9-11th). In a rebuild? I don't want these kids losing every night. A losing culture can become toxic. Having them in a position to be fighting for every point down the stretch will be far more valuable (in my opinion) than an extra 10% chance at a player who may or may not be great, and who would be walking into a locker room full of folks who only know how to lose NHL games. Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Prucha, Dubi, Cally, etc broke this team out of that loser mentality. I don't ever want to see it return.

In an aviation reference , A nose dive can be strategic if you pull up at the right moment.

 

[Good Intentions]

4th most playoff victories of any NHL club, since 2004. Be thankful we've had the rides that we've had. Nearly finished the job twice.

Some that hit the bottom, never come back up. It's not all Toews and Sidney.

I sure as hell don't want to see the bottom. Be competitive - focus on chemistry and internal growth. If that goes well, we'll be positioned for a "mediocre" draft spot, and that's hell of a lot better for the development of all the young talent coming together.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

All we need to do is convince Lundqvist to accept a trade to a contender and then we are pretty much guaranteed a top 5 draft pick. The sooner we do this the better. Also need to trade a few other players along the way.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I agree with that. Pretty much I'm a working class person but I live upstate so I was never going to be buying season tickets anyway. Once in a while I'll make a journey to Mecca (or MSG--apologies to any believers of the Muslim faith)--pay a bunch of money for some seats and sometimes we've won, sometimes we've not. When I was in the Coast Guard in the early 80's I was stationed for a couple years on Governor's Island--that was when things were convenient but unfortunately that's also when those *******s from Nassau Coliseum were in ascendance.

I have to say that the marketing of the game--the millions and billions flying about leaves me a bit cold. There is a point where too much wealth seems obscene to me. Though---it doesn't stop me from imagining what a particular player's share of the cap might be but it all seems abstract too. I remember reading Brad Park's book 'Play the man' when I was still a teenager and it's like he's fighting Emile Francis over like a $2,000 raise. Pretty ****ing unbelievable compared to the way things are today. I suppose it's progress and it's good for somebody but things just seemed 'purer' back then. A lot of players back then use to have summer jobs. Phil Esposito use to drive a tractor trailer. Ed Giacomin worked in a mine. During the season the Rangers all lived together in some Long Island community. Pretty crazy when you think about it.

Thank you!

 

[broadwayblue]

I understand the reasoning, and there are situations where I 100% agree with you (like the dark ages, where we had a full roster of mediocre veterans finishing 9-11th). In a rebuild? I don't want these kids losing every night. A losing culture can become toxic. Having them in a position to be fighting for every point down the stretch will be far more valuable (in my opinion) than an extra 10% chance at a player who may or may not be great, and who would be walking into a locker room full of folks who only know how to lose NHL games. Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Prucha, Dubi, Cally, etc broke this team out of that loser mentality. I don't ever want to see it return.

The worst team in the league wins every third night.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I understand the reasoning, and there are situations where I 100% agree with you (like the dark ages, where we had a full roster of mediocre veterans finishing 9-11th). In a rebuild? I don't want these kids losing every night. A losing culture can become toxic. Having them in a position to be fighting for every point down the stretch will be far more valuable (in my opinion) than an extra 10% chance at a player who may or may not be great, and who would be walking into a locker room full of folks who only know how to lose NHL games. Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Prucha, Dubi, Cally, etc broke this team out of that loser mentality. I don't ever want to see it return.

I don’t mind it’s losing season for one year. The memory of what is like to struggle and then overcome is something for everyone to share. I don’t get the sense the kids will be ready this season but Chytl and Andersson should more time .

 

[broadwayblue]

I don’t mind it’s losing season for one year. The memory of what is like to struggle and then overcome is something for everyone to share. I don’t get the sense the kids will be ready this season but Chytl and Andersson should more time .

Yeah, we've paid the price for all the recent winning seasons. Now it's time to accept that we need to start over. That doesn't mean we need to finish as a lottery team for 5 years. It's entirely possible that this is our bottom out season, and that they begin to rise again in 19-20. That's not such a bad price to pay in the scheme of things...and it would help us to get a few more high end pieces in the stable as we look to the future.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Yeah, we've paid the price for all the recent winning seasons. Now it's time to accept that we need to start over. That doesn't mean we need to finish as a lottery team for 5 years. It's entirely possible that this is our bottom out season, and that they begin to rise again in 19-20. That's not such a bad price to pay in the scheme of things...and it would help us to get a few more high end pieces in the stable as we look to the future.

100% agreed. And for that outlook I wanna view this in a positive way.

 

[broadwayblue]

100% agreed. And for that outlook I wanna view this in a positive way.

Yup. While I don't expect success in the standings this year, I am excited about the season. I'm looking forward to the changing of the guard. A new coach, a new system. An infusion of young players who will bust their butts every night and grow together. Sure, there will be bumps along the road and odds are they will be on the wrong end of the scoreboard on many nights. But after so many years of mortgaging our future for that "one last piece" it will be completely refreshing to be on the other side. Stock the cupboard. Invest in the future by playing the long game. And just maybe the next ride will lead to a parade.

 

[JT Kreider]

Yes, it's called "mediocrity"

 

[Riche16]

In an aviation reference , A nose dive can be strategic if you pull up at the right moment.

This is a bad analogy.

Nose dive in a plane gains air speed and momentum so that when u pull up it is at a higher rate of speed and therefor more effective.

Nose dive in the NHL and you may bottom out and stay there... depending on how u draft and your lottery success.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

This is a bad analogy.

Nose dive in a plane gains air speed and momentum so that when u pull up it is at a higher rate of speed and therefor more effective.

Nose dive in the NHL and you may bottom out and stay there... depending on how u draft and your lottery success.

I mean the Rangers buy there way to mediocrity all the time, so I’m certain they could throw enough cash at the wall to get back to the 8th spot don’t you?

And the main point in the aviation analogy I was trying to make that you actually reinforced rather than refuted was a 5 years plan of sink and slow rise means you are in control.

Also class my ass about rebuilds. New Yorkers are just impatient.

 

[Sarge13]

We always bought our way out of the basement. Free agency and trades never helped us get to the bottom, where we were headed naturally.

After we won in 94, almost every team that has won a Cup since then bottomed out naturally and ended up with multiple top 5 picks.

 

[broadwayblue]

We always bought our way out of the basement. Free agency and trades never helped us get to the bottom, where we were headed naturally.

After we won in 94, almost every team that has won a Cup since then bottomed out naturally and ended up with multiple top 5 picks.

In a cap world it's so much harder to buy your way to greatness. And if you are developing from within, it's certainly easier to be successful when you have a few picks at the top of the draft board.

 

[NYR713]

I don't think this team is a bottom 5 as it is and they haven't made any moves other than drafting since end of season. There is probably still going to be a bottom 6 vet or 2 signed.

It's not that I'm expecting a bunch of rookies to put up 50 points each, since the lineup should have a few, but I think the team's current veterans and established young guys will be able to handle the offensive load with help from those kids.

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Spooner-Hayes-Zucc
Chytil-Andersson-Namestnikov
Vesey-Lettieri-Fast

Competition for spots: Howden/Lindqvist/Meskanen/Ronning/Nieves

Skjei-Shatt
Staal-Pionk
Smith/Hajek/Lindgren/DeAngelo/Gilmour/Bigras

It's not terrible... not a cup competitor either. Still money that can be spent on UFA, possible trades of Spooner and Namestnikov... maybe Zucc. Let's not forget that there is a new coach who I think will simplify as compared to AV, which is better for the developing guys and even some of the vets that looked completely lost in the D zone.

I think this team will be battling for 8th playoff spot and probably picking around 14 in the draft.

 

[broadwayblue]

I think this team will be battling for 8th playoff spot and probably picking around 14 in the draft.

I'm wise enough to know that the unexpected can happen. That said, I'll take the under.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I don't think this team is a bottom 5 as it is and they haven't made any moves other than drafting since end of season. There is probably still going to be a bottom 6 vet or 2 signed.

It's not that I'm expecting a bunch of rookies to put up 50 points each, since the lineup should have a few, but I think the team's current veterans and established young guys will be able to handle the offensive load with help from those kids.

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Spooner-Hayes-Zucc
Chytil-Andersson-Namestnikov
Vesey-Lettieri-Fast

Competition for spots: Howden/Lindqvist/Meskanen/Ronning/Nieves

Skjei-Shatt
Staal-Pionk
Smith/Hajek/Lindgren/DeAngelo/Gilmour/Bigras

It's not terrible... not a cup competitor either. Still money that can be spent on UFA, possible trades of Spooner and Namestnikov... maybe Zucc. Let's not forget that there is a new coach who I think will simplify as compared to AV, which is better for the developing guys and even some of the vets that looked completely lost in the D zone.

I think this team will be battling for 8th playoff spot and probably picking around 14 in the draft.

It's terrible. There's no depth. The defense is a complete mess. WE have no idea how quickly the team will adjust and become successful in a new system. Development is not linear. Both Chytil and Andersson could easily spend time in Hartford. And, they have to climb over a bunch of teams in the Eastern Conference.

 

[RangerBlues]

Being a middling borderline team makes zero sense.