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The Race for the Calder Trophy

roon

roon

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EbonyRaptor said:
Of course - I stated as much in several previous posts in this marathon thread. This thread, as with far too many threads here at HF, has long ago turned into a pissing match with dug in immovable positions - one of which was the age factor - not for the purpose of eligibility versus ineligibility - but for the purpose of highlighting the disparity in development time between Bedard and Faber which factors in to the results each player is having in their rookie years. You can choose to believe the point I was trying to make is not germane to the topic - I disagree with that.
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They simply had different development paths - Canadian Junior's vs the NTDP and College hockey...the NTDP/college route generally is going to result in an older "rookie" just by the nature of that path.

EbonyRaptor said:
Actually I never mentioned "career projections" in my hypothetical - you brought that assumption forward. My question was meant to determine who is the better player right now - the current Bedard versus the current Faber.
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Then age really doesn't matter in the slightest.
 
MuckOG

MuckOG

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EbonyRaptor said:
Actually I never mentioned "career projections" in my hypothetical - you brought that assumption forward. My question was meant to determine who is the better player right now - the current Bedard versus the current Faber.
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Oh, that's easy. Faber by a mile, when you consider their overall games, offensively and defensively.

Long term, I would rather have Bedard as I'm assuming his defensively play will improve.
 
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Hawkaholic

Hawkaholic

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roon said:
How does a team game planning to stop Bedard from scoring result in significantly more goals being scored against Chicago 5v5 when Bedard is on the ice? I would accept your premise resulting in Bedard scoring fewer goals - but not the reverse.

Also - All Faber does is play a lot? Come on now....your bias is showing in a big way.
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Because then his line never has the puck, and always plays in their own zone? Are you new to hockey?
 
EbonyRaptor

EbonyRaptor

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MuckOG said:
Age was the same reason many fans on this very site were so sure that Stutzle would win the Calder over Kaprizov. They said things like: "What Stutzle is doing at 18 is more impressive than what Kaprizov is doing at 23".

Evidently, voters don't consider the age factor as much as fans on a message board do.
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Not a good argument - Stutzle had 29 points in 53 games while Kaprizov had 51 points in 55 games.
 
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BHawk21

BHawk21

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Seth Jones and Brock Fabers numbers are all so similar. Hes a good one.

Jones in 57 Games Played .5 ppg TOI 25.34 114 Shots blocked 55 hits 51% Corsi 51% Fenwick
Faber in 71 Games Played .56 ppg TOI 25.05 134 Shots blocked 59 hits 48% Corsi and 47% Fenwick
 
BHawk21

BHawk21

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MuckOG said:
Yes, and as I said, its completely irrelevant to this discussion. Of course, everyone would take Bedard over Faber if you're factoring in career projections. But what does that have to do with the Calder?
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the discussion shifted because of the hypothetical. Sometimes how conversations work. Going back to the Thread Title. Bedard is going to win it and Faber will get 2nd.
 
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MuckOG

MuckOG

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EbonyRaptor said:
Not a good argument - Stutzle had 29 points in 53 games while Kaprizov had 51 points in 55 games.
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I agree its not a good argument, but its one that fans were making

Age will not factor into whomever wins the Calder..
 
Hawkaholic

Hawkaholic

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BHawk21 said:
Seth Jones and Brock Fabers numbers are all so similar. Hes a good one.

Jones in 57 Games Played .5 ppg TOI 25.34 114 Shots blocked 55 hits 51% Corsi 51% Fenwick
Faber in 71 Games Played .56 ppg TOI 25.05 134 Shots blocked 59 hits 48% Corsi and 47% Fenwick
Click to expand...
Seth Jones isn't good though, unless you are comparing him to middle pairing Dmen.

MuckOG said:
I agree its not a good argument, but its one that fans were making

Age will not factor into whomever wins the Calder..
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But it will, and has.
 
Obvious Fabertism

Obvious Fabertism

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Hawkaholic said:
Because then his line never has the puck, and always plays in their own zone? Are you new to hockey?
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What position in NHL hockey has the most influence on possession during a shift?
BHawk21 said:
Seth Jones and Brock Fabers numbers are all so similar. Hes a good one.

Jones in 57 Games Played .5 ppg TOI 25.34 114 Shots blocked 55 hits 51% Corsi 51% Fenwick
Faber in 71 Games Played .56 ppg TOI 25.05 134 Shots blocked 59 hits 48% Corsi and 47% Fenwick
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You used all situations numbers for a PK guy as your comparison? At ES Faber blows him out of the water in every stat. Like just laughably bad comparison.
 
Hawkaholic

Hawkaholic

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Obvious Fabertism said:
What position in NHL hockey has the most influence on possession during a shift?

You used all situations numbers for a PK guy as your comparison? At ES Faber blows him out of the water in every stat. Like just laughably bad comparison.
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There is no one position that has the most influence on possession, you have to work as a 5 man unit in order to gain and keep possession
MuckOG said:
Faber is having a historic season for a rookie defenseman. Is Bedard having an historic season for a rookie center?
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"historic". lol Theres 9 Dmen with 60+ pts in their rookie seasons. I don't count TOI as a historic accomplishment.

roon said:
Well - Brock Faber plays against the top line of his opponents every night and has a positive impact on Corsi and xGF%.

If Connor is so easily shut down - perhaps he isn't the best rookie?
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Probably because he has played over 600 mins with top line quality surrounding him. lol @ easily shut down, he has a point per game playing with dog shit beside him every night.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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MuckOG said:
Age was the same reason many fans on this very site were so sure that Stutzle would win the Calder over Kaprizov. They said things like: "What Stutzle is doing at 18 is more impressive than what Kaprizov is doing at 23".

Evidently, voters don't consider the age factor as much as fans on a message board do.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone thought Stutzle would win the Calder over Kaprizov, I thought that poll was about who would be the better player?
 
roon

roon

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Hawkaholic said:
Probably because he has played over 600 mins with top line quality surrounding him. lol @ easily shut down, he has a point per game playing with dog shit beside him every night.
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You seem to want things both ways for Connor. His team is worse 5v5 with him on the ice because somehow they can game plan in such a way that his line is never in the O-Zone....BUT look at how much offense he produces! Don't look at how much the Hawks get scored on with him on the ice - thats his linemates fault....but please focus on how much he scores with those same linemates!
 
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ZDH

ZDH

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You guys need to put your $ where your mouth is if you truly think Faber is taking home the Calder. Or even has a 10% chance of taking home the Calder.

Your getting 11 to 1 right now on Faber. If you want to profit $100 on Bedard you'd have to bet $2000.

This is how absurd this whole discussion is.
 
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BHawk21

BHawk21

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MuckOG said:
Faber is having a historic season for a rookie defenseman. Is Bedard having an historic season for a rookie center?
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Yes, hes right up there with the rookie seasons of Makar Hughes Fox Myer Klingberg Dahlin Seider Ekblad Power.

Hes going to be great.


Yes, Bedard has the 10th best PPG for a rookie center in the last 35 years. The others above him

Crosby Juneau Lindros Malkin Mcdavid Forsberg Zhamnov Federov Barzal
 
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