Speculation: The R.F.A.'s

[LeighDx59]

Joakim Andersson : I agree with the 1.1m though I'd only go for 2 years. Kinda gives him a window to impress, improve and show off what he can go.

Gustav Nyquist : I would kinda show abit of faith in him with a three year deal for something along the lines of 1.8-2.0m per year. Would lock him up for three years which could end up being a steal for during the duration.

Jakub Kindl - Definately agree with in both term and pay.

Brendan Smith - I'd only go 3-4 years for 2.5-2.8 per year and then see where he is at in terms of progression and how well he is playing.

 

[Flowah]

You asked him Helm gets healthy what happens to Andersson? Well I hope it means Emmerton is off the roster. I believe Andersson wins more faceoffs, and he's just a bigger guy. The differences other than size between the two are pretty much a wash where I'd rather just have the bigger guy. If he's not bigger, he certainly plays bigger.

If E wants an extension for anything under $4M, I say pull that trigger. He's now a consistent, intelligent defenseman. He even shows the occasional flair for a brilliant offensive game.

~50 points a season is Flipper territory. I say Nyquist is already beyond that. He's like Filp, except he actually attacks the net, and that's just going to net him more points. I could easily see 60, or maybe even 70.

 

[Soft Rock Renegade]

People are totally missin Kindl's and Smith's value. Kindl is going to get more, that's the starting point.

1.000 for Andersson
1.400 for Nyquist
1.800 for Smith
2.250 for Kindl

Bonus: Ericsson for 4.000

That's pretty easy, more than Quincey, less than Kronwall.

agreed. smith gets the bridge contract. he's the one with something to prove. think kindl is coming in at close to 3 mil for 3 years and I wouldn't be unhappy with that. he's in a similar position to E before he got his current deal, only he loses a little leverage cause he's an RFA. kindl would still be a trade asset at that price too.

 

[joe89]

People are totally missin Kindl's and Smith's value. Kindl is going to get more, that's the starting point.

1.000 for Andersson
1.400 for Nyquist
1.800 for Smith
2.250 for Kindl

Bonus: Ericsson for 4.000

That's pretty easy, more than Quincey, less than Kronwall.

Can't write out the $ without the years. These are RFA deals. Smith getting more than Kindl is based on him also taking a longer deal that potentially takes away some costlier years. The difference between two years and four/five years is significant. Fil and Kronner were handed five year deals with cap hits they had to grow into, and in the end Wings ended up with bargains. I don't see that happening with Nyquist but I can see it happening with Smith.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

We have to keep in mind that Smith had to transition from playing AHL first liners to playing guys like Patrick Kane, David Backes and Jonathan Toews on a nightly basis. All while having no training camp and not a very ideal partner. Though I wasn't very impressed with his offensive instincts.

 

[Brick Top]

We have to keep in mind that Smith had to transition from playing AHL first liners to playing guys like Patrick Kane, David Backes and Jonathan Toews on a nightly basis. All while having no training camp and not a very ideal partner. Though I wasn't very impressed with his offensive instincts.

That also was my impression after watching him play this season. I figured he would struggle defensively, but I was certainly expecting him to be a factor offensively- it just rarely happened, and he often looked inept with the puck. Not sure if it was his defensive struggles that affected his confidence on offense, but his flashes of offensive talent were few and far between.

I was expecting him to have a season like the playoff run that Krug has put together for Boston- iffy and prone to lapses defensively, but a factor in moving the puck and on the PP. Hope that's the offensive output next year for Smith, combined with improving defensively.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

We've got 3 small/skilled wingers

Tatar. Nyquist. Brunner.
We can make that work. There's no need to trade any of them.

I think the size concern is getting way, way overblown. Like you said, it's okay to have 3 small guys for 6 spots so long as they're skilled and have speed and hockey sense. These guys do.

If anything, I think the problem comes from the fact that the bigger guys that Detroit DOES have don't play like it. Abdelkader sometimes plays big, sometimes doesn't. Cleary rarely does. Bertuzzi did, once upon a time. Franzen does when he feels like it. Those are the guys who make the team seem small. They need to pull their (substantial) weight.

It's no mystery to me that this team does really, really well when Abdelkader is headhunting defensemen, Cleary is in the crease, and Franzen decides to hit somebody.

 

[Bench]

I was expecting him to have a season like the playoff run that Krug has put together for Boston- iffy and prone to lapses defensively, but a factor in moving the puck and on the PP. Hope that's the offensive output next year for Smith, combined with improving defensively.

You nailed it.

Speaking of Krug, why didn't the Wings snag this Michigan State kid?

 

[MTU hockey]

You nailed it.

Speaking of Krug, why didn't the Wings snag this Michigan State kid?

Cause he is 5'9'' and wouldn't help the Wings get "bigger", and Babcock likes big d-men unless they are Rafalski. Besides I'd take DeKeyser over Krug any day, the Wings have enough offensive d-man right? between Smith, Sproul, Jensen, and possibly Ouellet I think were good. Plus, it looks like Krug is finally cooling off a bit after that hot streak.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Cause he is 5'9'' and wouldn't help the Wings get "bigger", and Babcock likes big d-men unless they are Rafalski. Besides I'd take DeKeyser over Krug any day, the Wings have enough offensive d-man right? between Smith, Sproul, Jensen, and possibly Ouellet I think were good. Plus, it looks like Krug is finally cooling off a bit after that hot streak.

Krug isn't exactly Mr. Defense, either. He barely avoided being a negative +/- with a +0. Only 1 regular defenseman on the team was worse. The team as a whole was a +39, which was better than the Griffins, and they won the AHL equivalent of the President's Trophy.

 

[joe89]

That also was my impression after watching him play this season. I figured he would struggle defensively, but I was certainly expecting him to be a factor offensively- it just rarely happened, and he often looked inept with the puck. Not sure if it was his defensive struggles that affected his confidence on offense, but his flashes of offensive talent were few and far between.

I was expecting him to have a season like the playoff run that Krug has put together for Boston- iffy and prone to lapses defensively, but a factor in moving the puck and on the PP. Hope that's the offensive output next year for Smith, combined with improving defensively.

Krug 6 pts in 14 playoff games, Smith 5 pts in 14 playoff games before we blow things out of proportion in that area. That's with Krug playing exclusively on the PP, Smith playing exclusively on the PK in the playoffs.

While I have offensive hopes for Smith I don't see him as that type of player. He can be a physical force and he can skate the puck out of trouble. Very good traits to become something good defensively. It's quite obvious Babcock doesn't treat him as an offensive D-man at this point, he's playing him to learn and be a factor both ways. I think he'll be one eventually. Learn him defense before letting him roar offensively.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I think some of you guys are really over estimating what Kindl will get on a bridge contract. When guys like Del Zotto, Kulikov & Subban are making between 2.5M & 2.875M I can't see Kindl getting over 1.75M on a bridge type deal. Kindl has a lot less going for him then a guy like Franson & I think Franson is going to get in that 2.5-3M range. Kindl still has to prove that he is more then a 3rd pairing dman anything over 1.75M is an overpayment, on a bridge type deal.

Anyways I think we'll see something like this for our RFAs

Andersson - 2 years x 1.7M total (850K per year)
Nyquist - 3 years x 7M
Smith - 2 years x 2.8M or 5 years x 15.5M (1.5M-2.5M-3M-4M-4.5M)
Kindl - 2 years x 3M

I used Abdelkader's 2nd contract as a base for Andersson's, Nyquist's was from Perron's 2nd contract, Smith got the typical Red Wing overpay for 1-2 years then underpay for 2-3 years contact.

Just for fun what I think Ericsson & Brunner will get.

Ericsson - 4 years x 15M
Brunner - 2 years x 6.5M

Ericsson is a lot like Smid in Edmonton except he has a little more offence in his game, I also think he'll take a bit of a discount.

 

[Brick Top]

Cause he is 5'9'' and wouldn't help the Wings get "bigger", and Babcock likes big d-men unless they are Rafalski. Besides I'd take DeKeyser over Krug any day, the Wings have enough offensive d-man right? between Smith, Sproul, Jensen, and possibly Ouellet I think were good. Plus, it looks like Krug is finally cooling off a bit after that hot streak.

Krug does seem to have cooled off in the scoring dept, but he's still generally moving the puck better and more confidently than Smith did the whole year. Not bad for an undrafted FA who's only 22 yrs old.

I know the Wings like the potential of their prospects, but it's still just unrealized NHL potential at this point. I hope those guys all pan out, but that's probably not realistic. I don't blame the Wings for not picking Krug up as they are high on their D prospects and no other team thought enough of him to draft him, but it's hard to take away what he's done offensively in the PO's. It's been fun to watch.

 

[Henkka]

Kindl is older. When you are buying those UFA years, it will be expensive. +2million.

Smith has shown nothing else than growing pains. His short-term bridge-type contract will be for sure under 2 mil.

Just wait and see.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

It's no mystery to me that this team does really, really well when Abdelkader is headhunting defensemen, Cleary is in the crease, and Franzen decides to hit somebody.

In the list of things that make our team do well, Abdelkader's headhunting is very low

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Kindl is older. When you are buying those UFA years, it will be expensive. +2million.

Smith has shown nothing else than growing pains. His short-term bridge-type contract will be for sure under 2 mil.

Just wait and see.

But Kindl wasn't overly impressive this year in his sheltered minutes. While we are buying out his UFA years you can sign #5/6 dmen for under 2 Million almost every offseason, I see little reason to overpay by 500K-1.5M. Had Kindl played legitimate competition this year in a top 4 role I'd be more receptive to him getting 2M+.

 

[SportsballChic]

In the list of things that make our team do well, Abdelkader's headhunting is very low

"It can't rain all the time Eric."

I feel you on Cleary but I'm actually okay with what Abby brought to the table last year and I think he's got a future because he's not afraid to take hacks and be a pest in the crease.

Mind you; I'm clearly not as plugged into obvious reality as you are. You should do a newsletter; I know I for one would snap subscribe.

 

[Brick Top]

Krug 6 pts in 14 playoff games, Smith 5 pts in 14 playoff games before we blow things out of proportion in that area. That's with Krug playing exclusively on the PP, Smith playing exclusively on the PK in the playoffs.

While I have offensive hopes for Smith I don't see him as that type of player. He can be a physical force and he can skate the puck out of trouble. Very good traits to become something good defensively. It's quite obvious Babcock doesn't treat him as an offensive D-man at this point, he's playing him to learn and be a factor both ways. I think he'll be one eventually. Learn him defense before letting him roar offensively.

Part of Smith not playing on the PP is on Smith- he didn't really do anything this season to convince the coaching staff that he should be working the blueline on the PP. And it's not like he was being passed over on PP duty for a cast of All Stars either- it was pretty much Kronwall, a group of average offensive d-men, and Brunner.

Smith was a decent point producer and goal scorer in college and the AHL, so it stands to reason that the Wings hope he scores in the NHL also. Since offense is his strength, it's odd to me that he couldn't play to that strength while learning the defensive side of the game. He seems to have terrible awareness at times in the d-zone, so he's got a long way to go before he's a reliable defender.

Whether it was the coaching staff or Smith himself who limited his offensive game, I hope that changes. If it doesn't, he'll be an average-at-best defenseman and I think the Wings are hoping for more than that out of him.

 

[SportsballChic]

Part of Smith not playing on the PP is on Smith- he didn't really do anything this season to convince the coaching staff that he should be working the blueline on the PP. And it's not like he was being passed over on PP duty for a cast of All Stars either- it was pretty much Kronwall, a group of average offensive d-men, and Brunner.

Smith was a decent point producer and goal scorer in college and the AHL, so it stands to reason that the Wings hope he scores in the NHL also. Since offense is his strength, it's odd to me that he couldn't play to that strength while learning the defensive side of the game. He seems to have terrible awareness at times in the d-zone, so he's got a long way to go before he's a reliable defender.

Whether it was the coaching staff or Smith himself who limited his offensive game, I hope that changes. If it doesn't, he'll be an average-at-best defenseman and I think the Wings are hoping for more than that out of him.

As mentioned previously; I really like Smith and I think at times people forget his good plays because his bad ones are so spectacular.

That having been said; dude was drafted in 2007. That was a long time ago; I know D-men take a while to brew but realistically if he doesn't show something "special" very soon...there's probably no guarantee he's ever going to?

Totally rooting for Smith, I want to like him and as a Wings fan I want him to be good. But the clock is ticking; he's not a prospect anymore, he's a Wing and he needs to start playing like it more consistently. Bad luck aside (and yes the kid has terrible luck).

 

[RedWingsNow*]

"It can't rain all the time Eric."

I feel you on Cleary but I'm actually okay with what Abby brought to the table last year and I think he's got a future because he's not afraid to take hacks and be a pest in the crease.

Mind you; I'm clearly not as plugged into obvious reality as you are. You should do a newsletter; I know I for one would snap subscribe.

He's got a future as a checking/energy line forward.

He's a good fourth line winger, a mediocre fourth line center, a below average third line winger, and a bad third line center, and he's awful anywhere above that.

Abdelkader gets too much love around here - maybe because he hits, maybe because he fights -- but mostly because he's from Michigan.
But he makes Dallas Drake look Marian Hossa

 

[SportsballChic]

He's got a future as a checking/energy line forward.

He's a good fourth line winger, a mediocre fourth line center, a below average third line winger, and a bad third line center, and he's awful anywhere above that.

Abdelkader gets too much love around here - maybe because he hits, maybe because he fights -- but mostly because he's from Michigan.
But he makes Dallas Drake look Marian Hossa

Off topic question but have you ever used the phrases:

"I think...", "To me..." or "In my opinion..." in your entire life?

I mean I appreciate you bothering to explain it to me this time instead of a worthless one liner but I'm gonna have to say I disagree with your opinion. I think 10 goals does too but I guess we'll know more next year.

Cheers

 

[Winger98]

As mentioned previously; I really like Smith and I think at times people forget his good plays because his bad ones are so spectacular.

That having been said; dude was drafted in 2007. That was a long time ago; I know D-men take a while to brew but realistically if he doesn't show something "special" very soon...there's probably no guarantee he's ever going to?

Totally rooting for Smith, I want to like him and as a Wings fan I want him to be good. But the clock is ticking; he's not a prospect anymore, he's a Wing and he needs to start playing like it more consistently. Bad luck aside (and yes the kid has terrible luck).

I'm not sure how much we should blame him for the snail's pace of prootion. Babcock apparently wanted him on the team last year, but the Wings have been dead set on nearly everyone playing out their options. Also, Smith has had a rough firs year at pretty much every level before rebounding and building on it in following seasons.

this still isn't to say he'll be anything special, but I won't be holding last season against him.

 

[SportsballChic]

I'm not sure how much we should blame him for the snail's pace of prootion. Babcock apparently wanted him on the team last year, but the Wings have been dead set on nearly everyone playing out their options. Also, Smith has had a rough firs year at pretty much every level before rebounding and building on it in following seasons.

this still isn't to say he'll be anything special, but I won't be holding last season against him.

Hey, like I said; I'm rooting for the kid. As a fan it's clearly in my best interest that he work out. I'd be fine with noticeable improvement this year and like I said, I don't think he was as horrible as people say. He just seems to make the "big mistake" right while the camera is looking at him every time.

I hope your right about the 2nd year thing; that's a promising line of reasoning and I really do think he's very talented. Watching him skate alone it's hard to believe there isn't a 10 year top 4 pairing defenseman in there someplace. Man is he smooth.

Just saying tho, at some point he's going to run out of time to keep developing physically; it'd be nice to see some "first round plays" this season for sure.

 

[Hendricks433]

I think the size concern is getting way, way overblown. Like you said, it's okay to have 3 small guys for 6 spots so long as they're skilled and have speed and hockey sense. These guys do.

If anything, I think the problem comes from the fact that the bigger guys that Detroit DOES have don't play like it. Abdelkader sometimes plays big, sometimes doesn't. Cleary rarely does. Bertuzzi did, once upon a time. Franzen does when he feels like it. Those are the guys who make the team seem small. They need to pull their (substantial) weight.

It's no mystery to me that this team does really, really well when Abdelkader is headhunting defensemen, Cleary is in the crease, and Franzen decides to hit somebody.

Add in Helm and the fact that Datsyuk and Z arent very big either and Franzen plays like a 5'11" guy.

I think the size thing is over blown too, look at Montreal and Boston has tons of smaller guys but we could use more than just Abdelkader who actually uses his size.

If Franzen used his size and always skated hard and we added one more gritty guy to replace Cleary I think we would be fine.

 

[sarcastro]

We resigned Abdelkader at 4 years, $1.7M a year and he's bunk.

But he had 3 full seasons and 4 playoffs of bunkery under his belt. They basically gave him the Miller contract with a little bit extra for his physical game and upside.

Abby had to wait until his 3rd contract to get that payday because he had no leverage and hadn't fully proven himself at the NHL level. His first RFA deal was 2 years and just under $800k a year. That's what I expect for Andersson and maybe Nyquist's offense gets him an extra $100k or so.

Smith played #3 role on our team last year. He got some awfully tough matchups too. As for his offensive feel he makes some pretty heady plays and is basically the only guy we have on the blueline that can actually read Datsyuk which says something.

I will be curious to see what he does with this summer, but I remain pretty high on him. Think people get a little too caught up in some of his clunker performances, he was pretty good for a rookie D-man basically being told to play D first and stuck on the PK. For his long-term development I think it was huge as was checking some of the bigger forwards that he did in the post-season run.

But really the most significant factor on him would be the organization and Babcock have not left his camp. That is important to the kind of contract you can expect.

We'll see. Next year is a big year for him, but unfortunately (or fortunately) they have to pay him first. I would be very leery of going long-term or big-dollar on the guy until he puts together a solid 2 way season of defense. He had way too many nights this year where he looked like he had absolutely no idea how to play ice hockey, be it offense, defense, or anything else.

Give some, take some. Nyquist and Smith aren't Emmerton and Ericsson coming up the system, taking the stability unknown if they will ever become regulars. This is closer to Filppula and Kronwall coming up the system. They already are regulars and will be playing top9 and top4 roles respectively next season.

Nyquist isn't likely to sign for three years at one million, there's nothing in it for him. If he puts up 45 points next season he's gonna be worth thrice that and he knows it. Same with Smith. He was playing 20 minutes per game in the playoffs and he's likely gonna be playing something similar to start next season. 20 minute defensemen soon earn their paycheck, especially if they put up some points. The shorter deal now, the earlier you pay the significant bucks. It's one thing if you don't like the player at all ofc, but be sure Detroit management are high on Smith.

800k fits with what I said for Andersson.

If the only contract the Wings offer Nyquist is 3 years at $1 mil, I would wager he would sign it. He'd have to, unless he wants to go back to Europe. He's not going to get an offer sheet worth signing (basically nobody does) and his qualifying offer is going to be in the $925k region.

I can see him countering with 2 years at around $1 mil if he doesn't want to do 3 years, but really the dude has no leverage whatsoever and it's not like he has put in 2-3 years of NHL time like some of these other guys have. He's on his first RFA contract and the Wings don't give out big deals to those players.

First RFA deals in recent Wing history:
Abby: 2x$787k
Kindl: 3x$883k
Emmerton: 3x$533k
Helm: 2x$913k
Ericsson: 3x$900k

Look at Ericsson for a good Nyquist comparable. He only had half an NHL season in but he did have a great playoff run in 2009, and he didn't get a sniff at big bucks. They didn't need to overextend themselves and they didn't. Abby and Helm seem to have moved the bar a bit from 3 years to 2 on a "show me" deal for those guys that aren't desperate for stability and want to roll the dice a little, but they didn't get more $/year in those first RFA deals.

I expect the same for Nyquist, Andersson, and Smith. The numbers will tick up a little (5-10% maybe) from inflation, but it would be way out of character for the Wings to give Nyquist close to $2 mil unless they're getting 4 years or more for it. It's Kindl's 2nd deal and frankly he was a lot better than Smith this year, so he'll get a decent raise.

Andersson: 3x$800k
Nyquist: 2x$975k
Smith: 3x$1.1m

Kindl: 3x$2.25m