TSN: The Problem of Pain

[Perfect_Drug]

TSN Original: The Problem of Pain

Was watching this, thought we could start an Oiler related discussion about this.

This was a really f***ed up video that shows some of the nastier parts of the game, and a scary overarching system where the TEAMS are in charge of the health and well beings of their players (rather than 3rd party doctors).

I'm no Kesler fan, but I would not want to wish what he's going through on him. Shitting blood 30 times a day, with Colitis, Chrons, Ulcers, irrepairable intestinal damage, and incapable of playing with his kids, more susceptible to cancer.

That said, I wonder if one of the... issues (lack of a better word) regarding Sam Gagner, was that he was married to a doctor, who probably wouldn't allow him to be injected with Toradol. At least not to the extent Kesler was. Could be a huge reason Gagner's career likely just ended.

I'm surprised Sheldon Souray wasn't interviewed as he's been pretty candid about his treatment in Edmonton.

Also makes me question McDavids leg even more now.

Click to read more...

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'll try to watch this if it's available in my region when I have time. What am I missing about Gagner? Kesler is a douche but that is really rough. For his family's sake I hope that he recovers.

 

[joestevens29]

I honestly don't know how I feel about Kesler. Westhead was on Gregor's show the other day and mentioned that Kesler would do the same things all over again. So while he is bringing something up, I don't know that I feel for a guy that would do it all over again.

Westhead also mentioned he's been getting a ton of calls. Sounds like there will be more to come as Westhead himself said he doesn't exactly know how bad it really is.

As for Gagner did he really have any issues? He's been pretty healthy the past 5 seasons. His issue is more he is a smaller skilled player that doesn't exactly skate the best to make up for his size and he isn't exactly a defensive specialist. At 31 his tool box isn't good enough to make up for his skills that once were good. I mean you look at Hickey and Alzner taken before him and their careers are kinda in the same boat.

 

[TheUltimateOiler]

Sam Gagner seemed to have lost upward trend after his broken jaw. He stopped playing tough and was a floater when we traded him. Hopefully Gagner is good now because I would love to have him back for one more year and have him retire here.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

As for Gagner did he really have any issues?

Well the knock I used to have on Gagner was that he played a small man's game (Rather than play bigger like Gionta, or Gallagher).

I sorta think his wife who is a Doctor would mean he has an immediate "second medical opinion" on hand.

I would therefore have to believe she would have severe objections to him taking Toradol, let alone the ungodly amounts of it necessary to play through excruciating pain that causes irreparable long-term harm that a LOT of NHLers seem to be doing now.


You'd have to believe those kinds of players who battle through the worst of it, can play with fearlessness and tenacity over those that don't.

You'd have to think the players hooked on opioids would have monumental advantage of going balls to the wall non-stop all game, taking the worst punishment and abuse in the worst situations non-stop without care of their safety.

I'll try to watch this if it's available in my region when I have time. What am I missing about Gagner? Kesler is a douche but that is really rough. For his family's sake I hope that he recovers.

At the root of the documentary, it's about how the NHL employs "teams doctors" on their payrolls, and they donate ridiculous sums to local hospitals. So its ridiculous that the players health not being the primary priority is a pretty major conflict of interest. This has been proven several times when a player sought "second opinion", and that was often considered betrayal to the team and his team mates.

Gagner wasn't mentioned in the documentary, but I brought him up because he's married to a Doctor, who would probably not be ok with anything Kesler or Quincey went through, and the alleged lineup of players for Toradol injections before each game that sounds like it should be illegal medical malpractice (again, when the team doctor is on the team payroll, this is a major conflict of interest).

 

[Drivesaitl]

Gagner is an interesting case for the reason that he was physically assaulted on ice. Its testament to his character however that he didn't try to make a big deal about it, albeit I wouldnt blame him from going the Steven Moore direction. he could have pursued criminal charges against Kassian, anything he liked. He did nothing like that. The NHL however, allowed such assault to occur and still do.

The topic of this thread is but one face of everything the NHL does allow including bare knuckle fighting, head trauma etc and from a league still fighting back against CTE claims and overtly denying its presence in players.

In this NHL, anything goes. The casualties mount, and many have died.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sam Gagner seemed to have lost upward trend after his broken jaw. He stopped playing tough and was a floater when we traded him. Hopefully Gagner is good now because I would love to have him back for one more year and have him retire here.

Its indelibly clear how this assault set back Gagners career. He had 38pts in the lockout shortened 48G season and playing the best hockey of his career. He's teasing at being a PPG player and was for some of that season.

FF to next season and he has 37pts in 67GP, is not in anyway the same player, and is then Traded and plays in Arizona, Philadelphia (where he was an afterthought) and then found brief success in Columbus through a HC that used him properly, but was then traded again to Vancouver on a youth movement and who sent Gagner down to the minors multiple times. Gagner was never the same player after the Sept 23, 2013 incident. He was eating out of a straw for several months but still playing games, not complaining, but he wasn't the same. Wasn't the same going to the net presence.

 

[TheUltimateOiler]

Its indelibly clear how this assault set back Gagners career. He had 38pts in the lockout shortened 48G season and playing the best hockey of his career. He's teasing at being a PPG player and was for some of that season.

FF to next season and he has 37pts in 67GP, is not in anyway the same player, and is then Traded and plays in Arizona, Philadelphia (where he was an afterthought) and then found brief success in Columbus through a HC that used him properly, but was then traded again to Vancouver on a youth movement and who sent Gagner down to the minors multiple times. Gagner was never the same player after the Sept 23, 2013 incident. He was eating out of a straw for several months but still playing games, not complaining, but he wasn't the same. Wasn't the same going to the net presence.

He was a legit lock for 40 points a year before the injury

 

[joestevens29]

Well the knock I used to have on Gagner was that he played a small man's game (Rather than play bigger like Gionta, or Gallagher).

I sorta think his wife who is a Doctor would mean he has an immediate "second medical opinion" on hand.

I would therefore have to believe she would have severe objections to him taking Toradol, let alone the ungodly amounts of it necessary to play through excruciating pain that causes irreparable long-term harm that a LOT of NHLers seem to be doing now.


You'd have to believe those kinds of players who battle through the worst of it, can play with fearlessness and tenacity over those that don't.

You'd have to think the players hooked on opioids would have monumental advantage of going balls to the wall non-stop all game, taking the worst punishment and abuse in the worst situations non-stop without care of their safety.
.

Do we actually know that toradol is what he was asked to take? Do we really know what he was ever offered? There are so many painkillers out there that it's really hard to speculate which one he may or may not have been offered.

At the end of the day one of the things that Westhead said was the issue was guys just not listening to the labels. Toradol is only recommended for 5 days. But there are lessor drugs out there as well that are way more safe, but they become unsafe if you are essentially using them everyday to get through pain.

Gregor also mentioned we can't just assume that every team was doing this. At this point Westhead wasn't sure just how rampant this drug was and it is possible that not everyone on a team was getting the treatment.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Do we actually know that toradol is what he was asked to take? Do we really know what he was ever offered? There are so many painkillers out there that it's really hard to speculate which one he may or may not have been offered.

At the end of the day one of the things that Westhead said was the issue was guys just not listening to the labels. Toradol is only recommended for 5 days. But there are lessor drugs out there as well that are way more safe, but they become unsafe if you are essentially using them everyday to get through pain.

Gregor also mentioned we can't just assume that every team was doing this. At this point Westhead wasn't sure just how rampant this drug was and it is possible that not everyone on a team was getting the treatment.

I'm speculating about the Toradol, mostly because the guys interviewed in the documentary said the most of the team would line up for their shots before every game. It sounded like a vast majority of players use it regularly.

Player safety aside, you'd have to think the more heavily medicated team holds a significant advantage.

I can't help but shake how Sheldon Souray was chastised for being vocal about the Oilers organization and medical staff, and they responded by burying him in the minors. And as a leader of the team, who was vocal about his medical treatment, it seemed like they couldn't get him away from the younger impressionable kids fast enough.

 

[joestevens29]

Player safety aside, you'd have to think the more heavily medicated team holds a significant advantage.

I can't help but shake how Sheldon Souray was chastised for being vocal about the Oilers organization and medical staff, and they responded by burying him in the minors. And as a leader of the team, who was vocal about this, you'd have to think they'd want to get him away from the influence of the younger kids who he could possibly influence.

Well to the first point then obviously the Oilers never were offering it.

As for the second point I don't know what really happened to be honest with Souray. Seemed like both sides were mad

Also didn't we fire our training and medical staff at one point?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Well to the first point then obviously the Oilers never were offering it.

As for the second point I don't know what really happened to be honest with Souray. Seemed like both sides were mad

Also didn't we fire our training and medical staff at one point?

I believe Ken Lowe was fired because our guys missed too many games due to injury and they felt he might've have something to do with it.

I guess Tambo wanted Ken Lowe to somehow get our injured played to play through those injuries, block shots, take hits to make plays, and pay the price in front of the net back when we were the last place team in the league.

Oilers Fire Trainers

 

[FanOfSadTeam]

I believe Ken Lowe was fired because our guys missed too many games due to injury and they felt he might've have something to do with it.

I guess Tambo wanted Ken Lowe to somehow get our injured played to play through those injuries, block shots, take hits to make plays, and pay the price in front of the net back when we were the last place team in the league.

Oilers Fire Trainers

I heard the trainers were not up to par compared to trainers from 7around the league. I don't remember the exact phrasing but this is what Souray said on spittin chiclets.

 

[CanmoreMike]

Just watched the doc.

Random question on a Friday night:

Does TSN produce Westhead stories like this, plus everything he’s brought to light on concussions, if Bell media still held national TV rights to the NHL?

My answer is no.

This isn’t to shit on TSN but to me, if they had more skin in the game with the NHL they aren’t making these stories. Take what you want from my comment.

 

[CanmoreMike]

I can't help but shake how Sheldon Souray was chastised for being vocal about the Oilers organization and medical staff, and they responded by burying him in the minors. And as a leader of the team, who was vocal about his medical treatment, it seemed like they couldn't get him away from the younger impressionable kids fast enough.

And to my comment earlier - at the time when the Oilers announced Souray was demoted to Capitals farm team TSN’s Ryan Rishaug was on Gregor’s show or morning show and he completely backed the Oilers decision and, as I recall, said something to the effect of “Souray is cool like the Fonze, but the Fonze cared about people.”

 

[space321]

Sam Gagner seemed to have lost upward trend after his broken jaw. He stopped playing tough and was a floater when we traded him. Hopefully Gagner is good now because I would love to have him back for one more year and have him retire here.

f***ing Zack Kassian lmao, guys' a puke, and Ken Holland still gave him 12M... Poor McDavid, having to carry Kassian for the next 4 years

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just watched the doc.

Random question on a Friday night:

Does TSN produce Westhead stories like this, plus everything he’s brought to light on concussions, if Bell media still held national TV rights to the NHL?

My answer is no.

This isn’t to shit on TSN but to me, if they had more skin in the game with the NHL they aren’t making these stories. Take what you want from my comment.

Excellent and interesting point.

 

[CanmoreMike]

Excellent and interesting point.

Thanks @Drivesaitl!

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Just watched the doc.

Random question on a Friday night:

Does TSN produce Westhead stories like this, plus everything he’s brought to light on concussions, if Bell media still held national TV rights to the NHL?

My answer is no.

This isn’t to shit on TSN but to me, if they had more skin in the game with the NHL they aren’t making these stories. Take what you want from my comment.

That's actually a huge problem with the state of journalism today.

 

[joestevens29]

Just watched the doc.

Random question on a Friday night:

Does TSN produce Westhead stories like this, plus everything he’s brought to light on concussions, if Bell media still held national TV rights to the NHL?

My answer is no.

This isn’t to shit on TSN but to me, if they had more skin in the game with the NHL they aren’t making these stories. Take what you want from my comment.

I don't know to be honest. If it were such a big deal would TSN worry about ruining their rep with the NHL. After all they are probably going to want TSN back.

Plus don't they still do regional hockey? Not as large, but I don't think TSN was really afraid with this story.

I could be wrong but one has to think the NHL is going to go to whoever pays them the most. Especially now during these times of finances being so uncertain

As a side question who broke the Carcillo story?

 

[CanmoreMike]

I don't know to be honest. If it were such a big deal would TSN worry about ruining their rep with the NHL. After all they are probably going to want TSN back.

Plus don't they still do regional hockey? Not as large, but I don't think TSN was really afraid with this story.

I could be wrong but one has to think the NHL is going to go to whoever pays them the most. Especially now during these times of finances being so uncertain

As a side question who broke the Carcillo story?

I believe it was CBC but it might have been CTV.

CBC doesn’t have hockey rights - they show games but don’t make money on them. They have no skin in the game. CTV/TSN might want hockey rights again but, right now, I don’t see NHL rights being much more than what Sportsnet paid for them. Sportsnet is taking a bath. Any hits TSN or CTV can deliver to the NHL serves to keep the price low.

There’s a book out about how bad that TV contract has been. I think the NHL lost big on that contract and will lose big on their next one.