OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[DanielPlainview]

Fields has more talent than Pickett in pretty much any way you can measure athletic ability.

Athletic ability? How are you defining that? It seems like combine athleticism has little to do the QB position.

I care about attributes and skills specific for the QB position more than "athleticism". At these things, Pickett is better. And it would not surprise me at all if Pickett grows considerably under Sirianni and ends up getting a chance to start somewhere.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Khan said on the Pat McAfee Show, they were trying to move up to get Fautanu.

Omar Khan: Steelers were ‘working the phones’ to move up for Troy Fautanu

The Steelers were hoping to get Troy Fautanu one way or another

www.behindthesteelcurtain.com

There were a ton of rumors before the draft the Steelers were working the phone to move up, so sounds like they were accurate.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Hmmm....who are all those first round QBs that got on the fail boat for multiple years with their first team and managed to turn it around somewhere else? I doubt either Pickett or Fields will turn it around. I guess we will see.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I like Pickett and wish he wouldn't have asked for a trade, but the idea that he has shown more talent than Fields at this point is laughable.

The dude was a 2nd/3rd round talent that was carried into a 1st round pick by Jordan Addison torching shitty ACC defenses. Once in the NFL, he constantly had problems with sticking in the pocket and regularly bailed out of the pocket prematurely. Even if you want to criticize Fields for a lack of vision (which is true), Pickett was no better. Pickett has the same issues with on-field vision that Fields has.

The two don't have notably different passing/vision talents IMO, the only difference is that Tomlin beat Pickett into being scared with making mistakes while Fields was allowed to go AWOL with the Bears. Fields is at least a major threat in the running game while Pickett isn't. That's why I said earlier that Fields' upside is mediocre passing ability (in terms of starting QBs) while being a major threat in the run game. Pickett's upside is the same mediocre passing ability, he just doesn't offer the run game that Fields does.

It's most likely that neither end up a starting caliber QB, or at least a good one, but I see more paths to that with Fields than I do with Pickett. You might be able to tolerate Fields' mediocre passing ability if he's also putting up 50-75 rushing yards a game while keeping the turnovers down. With Pickett, I don't see anything there that adds to his passing abilities. If you don't think "mediocre passing ability" is good enough for a starting QB, then neither of them will be starting QBs.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

There were a ton of rumors before the draft the Steelers were working the phone to move up, so sounds like they were accurate.

I like that this management team seems to use smoke screens then.

All the rumors were about Mims and a couple of the centers.

If their target all along was Fautanu there was barely a whisper about it before the draft.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I like that this management team seems to use smoke screens then.

All the rumors were about Mims and a couple of the centers.

If their target all along was Fautanu there was barely a whisper about it before the draft.

They didnt expect Fautanu to be anywhere nearvtheir pick.

Mims and Barton were more realistic targets and theres no reason to think they werent interested.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I like that this management team seems to use smoke screens then.

All the rumors were about Mims and a couple of the centers.

If their target all along was Fautanu there was barely a whisper about it before the draft.

I like that Khan is aggressive and also isn’t afraid to move on quickly from malcontents (Claypool, DJ) or gut an entire positional group and start over (ILB).

Even when KP asked to be dealt Khan was like “bye”.

Makes me wish he had power to fire the coach.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

They didnt expect Fautanu to be anywhere nearvtheir pick.

Mims and Barton were more realistic targets and theres no reason to think they werent interested.

But the reports now say that they tried to move up for him. They kept that interest secret.

A nice deviation from broadcasting to the entire world their intentions if not the exact pick.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

But the reports now say that they tried to move up for him. They kept that interest secret.

A nice deviation from broadcasting to the entire world their intentions if not the exact pick.

A few years Colbert said they tried to trade up for kp. I do like that the do mock draft so they can anticipate what a different team picks
It was no secret they were going ot and then c in the 1st 2 rounds just wr dl and cb will be on next year

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Khan: Steelers 'Wouldn't Have Taken' Payton Wilson Without Medical Staff Clearance

Despite having arguably the best film of any off-ball linebacker in the 2024 NFL Draft and elite-level athletic traits and testing numbers, North Carolina State linebacker Payton Wilson fell drastically in the draft, all the way to the third round to the Pittsburgh Steelers at No. 98 overall...

steelersdepot.com

 

[ChaosAgent]

I like Pickett and wish he wouldn't have asked for a trade, but the idea that he has shown more talent than Fields at this point is laughable.

The dude was a 2nd/3rd round talent that was carried into a 1st round pick by Jordan Addison torching shitty ACC defenses. Once in the NFL, he constantly had problems with sticking in the pocket and regularly bailed out of the pocket prematurely. Even if you want to criticize Fields for a lack of vision (which is true), Pickett was no better. Pickett has the same issues with on-field vision that Fields has.

The two don't have notably different passing/vision talents IMO, the only difference is that Tomlin beat Pickett into being scared with making mistakes while Fields was allowed to go AWOL with the Bears. Fields is at least a major threat in the running game while Pickett isn't. That's why I said earlier that Fields' upside is mediocre passing ability (in terms of starting QBs) while being a major threat in the run game. Pickett's upside is the same mediocre passing ability, he just doesn't offer the run game that Fields does.

It's most likely that neither end up a starting caliber QB, or at least a good one, but I see more paths to that with Fields than I do with Pickett. You might be able to tolerate Fields' mediocre passing ability if he's also putting up 50-75 rushing yards a game while keeping the turnovers down. With Pickett, I don't see anything there that adds to his passing abilities. If you don't think "mediocre passing ability" is good enough for a starting QB, then neither of them will be starting QBs.

I think it's likely that Fields busts, but beyond the running ability his arm strength is an asset that Pickett does not have. When you throw the ball harder you can fit the ball into more windows.

Fields is definitely the better prospect, even if neither are very good prospects.

 

[Peat]

I think the pick of Fautanu and the surprise it causes represents two things

a) A very kind board where a surplus of tackle talent led to a guy frequently seen as a top 10 talent dropping to 20. Without that we're probably talking about how they're so damn predictable for taking Barton.

b) A situation with a large number of competing team needs and a board that could meet all of them. 2023, it was pretty clearly Tackle or Cornerback in the first round. 2022, it would be Quarterback if it made sense. This year it could have been any one of four positions.

Which probably isn't such a great thing but there we go.

We'll see how next year goes but I think it'll be more predictable. There's a good chance it'll be QB if there. If not, at this juncture, I think you can be 90% confident they'll be looking at DL or CB. They may need a Guard, but you don't need to draft in the 1st for that. Ditto safety. They may need a WR but this team pretty much always solves that on day 2.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think the pick of Fautanu and the surprise it causes represents two things

a) A very kind board where a surplus of tackle talent led to a guy frequently seen as a top 10 talent dropping to 20. Without that we're probably talking about how they're so damn predictable for taking Barton.

b) A situation with a large number of competing team needs and a board that could meet all of them. 2023, it was pretty clearly Tackle or Cornerback in the first round. 2022, it would be Quarterback if it made sense. This year it could have been any one of four positions.

Which probably isn't such a great thing but there we go.

We'll see how next year goes but I think it'll be more predictable. There's a good chance it'll be QB if there. If not, at this juncture, I think you can be 90% confident they'll be looking at DL or CB. They may need a Guard, but you don't need to draft in the 1st for that. Ditto safety. They may need a WR but this team pretty much always solves that on day 2.

I hope not QB for several reasons. First because it would be much better Fields exceeded expectations. However unlikely.

But also, where the Steelers likely pick, finding a quarterback that becomes even average is unlikely at best.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I hope not QB for several reasons. First because it would be much better Fields exceeded expectations. However unlikely.

But also, where the Steelers likely pick, finding a quarterback that becomes even average is unlikely at best.

I suspect Khan will be ultra aggressive when the time comes to find a potential franchise guy.

Not sure if that time is 2025 based on a weaker QB class as of now.

Best we can hope for is Wilson has a reset back to his old form behind a bruising running game that doesn’t ask him to be the guy anymore, and rely heavily on a stout D.

Hopefully he can give them a couple decent seasons and they break this embarrassing Tomlin playoff curse.

Basically follow the 90s Caher Paher formula that gives false hope without a franchise QB, but it at least prevents the org from being a laughingstock.

Then take another swing in 2026 maybe.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

But the reports now say that they tried to move up for him. They kept that interest secret.

A nice deviation from broadcasting to the entire world their intentions if not the exact pick.

Yeah for sure.

I just dont think the reported interest in tjose guys and Mitchell were as much smoke screens as they were legit interest thinking Fautanu was gonna be a top 10 or 12 pick

 

[Night Shift]

I think it's likely that Fields busts, but beyond the running ability his arm strength is an asset that Pickett does not have. When you throw the ball harder you can fit the ball into more windows.

Fields is definitely the better prospect, even if neither are very good prospects.

Fair enough. Fields really does suck though and will get the Pickett treatment when he does see the field and continues to suck.

IF he sits for 2 years and learns from RW, that's really the only chance he has left at being successful.

 

[DanielPlainview]

The two most overrated attributes for a QB are arm strength and 40 time. Unless a guy has an incredibly weak arm, arm strength is not a big deal and the list of big arms that have done nothing is incredibly long. The key to success in the NFL is timing and accuracy and those stem from being able to read a defense and proper throwing technique. Foremost, if a QB cannot see the field, he has zero chance to succeed in the NFL, which is where Fields lies. Fields is a turnover machine because he cannot see the field. That he's been able to put up some yardage stats is just a testament to how much easier "success" in the passing game comes in today's the NFL (which also highlights just how f-ing bad Matt Canada's offensive scheme was).

Rushing stats for a QB mean nothing. It's not the QBs job to be a running back, and if he's defaulting that much to running, it's likely because he struggles to process the field (again).

 

[Peat]

I hope not QB for several reasons. First because it would be much better Fields exceeded expectations. However unlikely.

But also, where the Steelers likely pick, finding a quarterback that becomes even average is unlikely at best.

I hear that but at the same time, pretty much every method of acquiring a QB is either very unlikely to work out, or insanely expensive and still very risky for what it costs.

But having an inadequate QB is even worse so it's better to take the swings.

Realistically the team is probably going back to the draft at some point soon and, yeah, realistically that's not going to work well either. Hopefully Khan is able to work out some smart aggression to move up when the time comes, or Smith is a smarter QB evaluator than his record shows, or something.

 

[Pens x]

still need wr help

 

[Peat]

In other news, apparently both Fittipaldo and Dulac have said that Fautanu will be slotting in at RT with Jones moving back to LT.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I like Pickett and wish he wouldn't have asked for a trade, but the idea that he has shown more talent than Fields at this point is laughable.

The dude was a 2nd/3rd round talent that was carried into a 1st round pick by Jordan Addison torching shitty ACC defenses. Once in the NFL, he constantly had problems with sticking in the pocket and regularly bailed out of the pocket prematurely. Even if you want to criticize Fields for a lack of vision (which is true), Pickett was no better. Pickett has the same issues with on-field vision that Fields has.

The two don't have notably different passing/vision talents IMO, the only difference is that Tomlin beat Pickett into being scared with making mistakes while Fields was allowed to go AWOL with the Bears. Fields is at least a major threat in the running game while Pickett isn't. That's why I said earlier that Fields' upside is mediocre passing ability (in terms of starting QBs) while being a major threat in the run game. Pickett's upside is the same mediocre passing ability, he just doesn't offer the run game that Fields does.

It's most likely that neither end up a starting caliber QB, or at least a good one, but I see more paths to that with Fields than I do with Pickett. You might be able to tolerate Fields' mediocre passing ability if he's also putting up 50-75 rushing yards a game while keeping the turnovers down. With Pickett, I don't see anything there that adds to his passing abilities. If you don't think "mediocre passing ability" is good enough for a starting QB, then neither of them will be starting QBs.

Extremely disingenuous to drop Pickett's success at the feet of Jordan Addison as if Justin Fields didn't have one of the best WR rooms in college history his entire run at Ohio State.

Pickett had one of the worst pass-blocking OL in the league both years on top of the issues of Matt Canada's atrocious offensive scheme and play-calling. He did have an issue with happy feet but it only got worse because his trust in the OL was non-existent.

Pickett didn't have issues seeing the field. When given time and a pocket to step into, he looked good. When the play-calling became more aggressive in the fourth quarter, he looked good. The problem was not his lack of talent, but the failure of the coaching and the teambuilding around him.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Extremely disingenuous to drop Pickett's success at the feet of Jordan Addison as if Justin Fields didn't have one of the best WR rooms in college history his entire run at Ohio State.

Pickett had one of the worst pass-blocking OL in the league both years on top of the issues of Matt Canada's atrocious offensive scheme and play-calling. He did have an issue with happy feet but it only got worse because his trust in the OL was non-existent.

Pickett didn't have issues seeing the field. When given time and a pocket to step into, he looked good. When the play-calling became more aggressive in the fourth quarter, he looked good. The problem was not his lack of talent, but the failure of the coaching and the teambuilding around him.

Yes he definitely has issues seeing the field Cleveland and Arizona confused him. His happy feet were a thing in college him bailing out left came from college those same schemes looked good with Mason another nfl backup though

 

[DanielPlainview]

Damn I was hoping your dumb ass had left

 

[Empoleon8771]

Extremely disingenuous to drop Pickett's success at the feet of Jordan Addison as if Justin Fields didn't have one of the best WR rooms in college history his entire run at Ohio State.

Pickett had one of the worst pass-blocking OL in the league both years on top of the issues of Matt Canada's atrocious offensive scheme and play-calling. He did have an issue with happy feet but it only got worse because his trust in the OL was non-existent.

Pickett didn't have issues seeing the field. When given time and a pocket to step into, he looked good. When the play-calling became more aggressive in the fourth quarter, he looked good. The problem was not his lack of talent, but the failure of the coaching and the teambuilding around him.

Ohio State doesn't play in a cupcake division like Pitt does.

Anyway, I even like Pickett and I think the comments you're making about him are ridiculous. This idea that he had no faults and was let down by Canada is just entirely baseless and frankly moronic. I was in the "let's see how he does with a new OC" camp as well, but that doesn't change that he was extremely ineffective in the NFL so far and showed massive issues with bailing out of the pocket prematurely, not identifying open targets and defaulting to checking the ball down far too much.

In the two years in the NFL, Pickett was clearly worse than Fields by any measure you can look at and showed no sort of talents that suggest he has a higher upside than Fields. I was willing to give him another year to see if Pickett could show that, but he absolutely did not show that in his first 2 years.

 

[MrBrightside]

The two most overrated attributes for a QB are arm strength and 40 time. Unless a guy has an incredibly weak arm, arm strength is not a big deal and the list of big arms that have done nothing is incredibly long. The key to success in the NFL is timing and accuracy and those stem from being able to read a defense and proper throwing technique. Foremost, if a QB cannot see the field, he has zero chance to succeed in the NFL, which is where Fields lies. Fields is a turnover machine because he cannot see the field. That he's been able to put up some yardage stats is just a testament to how much easier "success" in the passing game comes in today's the NFL (which also highlights just how f-ing bad Matt Canada's offensive scheme was).

Rushing stats for a QB mean nothing. It's not the QBs job to be a running back, and if he's defaulting that much to running, it's likely because he struggles to process the field (again).

Posts from 1967.