OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[WickedWrister]

Like the CPatt signing. Surprised this is the first Arthur Smith guy we've gotten.

And yeah, we should see a ton more kick returns this year with the new rules so he'll mainly contribute there. Got a decent amount of RZ work the past few years in ATL before Bijan and Allgeier took his playing time, but I could see him being in a few packages.

I don't know if we have anybody else on the roster with KR experience? McFarland and Godwin Igwebuike had those duties last year and I think they're both still unsigned.

 

[WickedWrister]

From 2022, looks like he still got some juice?

 

[Ryder71]

I wish we'd sign Boyd or Reynolds. Clearly we need to fill WR.

 

[T1K]

I wish we'd sign Boyd or Reynolds. Clearly we need to fill WR.

That will be filled via the draft

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm a bit confused about paying a 33 year old WR/RB $3 million a year for 2 years, but I realize that he'll mostly just be a return man. Still though, he was insanely unproductive last year. Only 181 rushing yards, 38 receiving yards and 153 return yards last year.

Damn… even punters work harder than that.

 

[Peat]

Tangential but since we've signed a Smith guy, were there any full-backs in FA? Seems like a key part of his offence that hasn't been shopped. I think the Steelers have looked at a couple of FB-esque types in the draft...

Wonder if this will be Heyward's position. Or maybe even whether Smith is just thinking "why not just put out 2 RBs and have them block for each other"? Harris is FB sized and Warren is mean and efficient.


p.s. I dunno how much cap space the Steelers have after this, but Boyd and Reynolds are both still available, right?

 

[Ryder71]

p.s. I dunno how much cap space the Steelers have after this, but Boyd and Reynolds are both still available, right?

I believe they are but the Ravens are poking around Reynolds.

 

[WickedWrister]

Tangential but since we've signed a Smith guy, were there any full-backs in FA? Seems like a key part of his offence that hasn't been shopped. I think the Steelers have looked at a couple of FB-esque types in the draft...

Wonder if this will be Heyward's position. Or maybe even whether Smith is just thinking "why not just put out 2 RBs and have them block for each other"? Harris is FB sized and Warren is mean and efficient.


p.s. I dunno how much cap space the Steelers have after this, but Boyd and Reynolds are both still available, right?

Keith Smith, ATL's FB last year is still out there.

We could probably free up +$20m with restructures to Heyward, Watt, Minkah etc..

 

[Ryder71]

That will be filled via the draft

Likely, but you can still get a Reynolds or a Boyd to help fortify the position.

 

[T1K]

Likely, but you can still get a Reynolds or a Boyd to help fortify the position.

They’re starting to run out of spots, although I don’t expect all of Watkins, Calloway, CA3, and Van Jeff to make the team.

 

[Peat]

Keith Smith, ATL's FB last year is still out there.

We could probably free up +$20m with restructures to Heyward, Watt, Minkah etc..

That's another thing that interests me now you mention it. Feels quite late in the off-season to have no restructures, right?

OverTheCap shows them as having 14m left before Patterson. Imagine his first year cost is only 2m or so. If they structure a contract for Reynolds or Boyd aggressively, they could probably sign that guy and still have enough for the rookie class without restructuring providing they don't mind a cushion. I imagine they'll restructure to get a cushion, but it's still doable. Mike Williams is costing the Jets 2.7m this year but 5.8 next; Curtis Samuel the Bills 3.4m this year and 9.something the next two. Neither Reynolds or Boyd are going to cost more overall than those guys, right?

 

[Ryder71]

Neither Reynolds or Boyd are going to cost more overall than those guys, right?

No they're not I'm glad you asked. I just hope they sign one of them.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Like the CPatt signing. Surprised this is the first Arthur Smith guy we've gotten.

And yeah, we should see a ton more kick returns this year with the new rules so he'll mainly contribute there. Got a decent amount of RZ work the past few years in ATL before Bijan and Allgeier took his playing time, but I could see him being in a few packages.

I don't know if we have anybody else on the roster with KR experience? McFarland and Godwin Igwebuike had those duties last year and I think they're both still unsigned.

Technically Jefferson was the first Arthur Smith guy. He was the wr 2 in Atlanta. Watkins and Ca3 have kr experience
I do think we will see a pony back field and warren or Najee can line up at wr on some plays with him at rb

 

[JTG]

I'm kind of stoked for Smith's offense here. I think Najee and Warren could have absolutely massive years and this could be a lot of fun. Patterson now brings a whole different level to the team because with more returns, those are currently free points that teams can take advantage of and Khan just did. The only thing he didn't get done this offseason that would have made it legendary would have been to sign Araiza.

 

[Captain Hook]

I was puzzled by the Patterson move at first but then people brought up how the new kick return rules may make returns a bigger part of the game going forward and Patterson is one of the goat returners so it makes sense now. It's actually nice to see the Steelers aggressively move to get a weapon for that part of the game immediately after the rule change. The fact Patterson may be able to be the #3 RB is a bonus.

 

[Peat]

Patterson's 7 returns were for 21.9 yards per return. MacFarland's 6 went for 27.3. Igwebuike's 11 went for 25.6 each.

For context, Pattersson's total was 48th out of guys who returned a kick.

In other words, if the main aim is to get a KR to kick some arse with things becoming more important there, they seem to have paid more to get worse.

 

[T1K]

Patterson's 7 returns were for 21.9 yards per return. MacFarland's 6 went for 27.3. Igwebuike's 11 went for 25.6 each.

For context, Pattersson's total was 48th out of guys who returned a kick.

In other words, if the main aim is to get a KR to kick some arse with things becoming more important there, they seem to have paid more to get worse.

Small samples. He’s a good special teams player. 4 time pro bowler. He’s not a net negative on offense and can be a Swiss Army knife utility player at both RB and slot WR.

 

[Peat]

Small samples. He’s a good special teams player. 4 time pro bowler. He’s not a net negative on offense and can be a Swiss Army knife utility player at both RB and slot WR.

There's pretty much no non-small samples in kick returns right now.

But he has been under 25 yards a return in two of his last three seasons. Or if you put it at as an average, it's 25.6 over those 34 kick returns.

Either way, we're not talking the pro bowler who routinely hovered around 30 yards per return.

We're talking a guy who is right in line with Igwebuike's 25.7 average over 50, except Patterson is going to be 33 which is real ancient for a kick returner, and is therefore likely to keep getting worse rather than get better.

Also pretty old for a RB/WR, which might account for he's pretty much stopped breaking tackles there and, one weird outlier in 22 with Smith aside, kinda hasn't done a whole bunch there recently.

Patterson three years ago is what you were saying. Pattersson looks a very different beast.

 

[MrBrightside]

There's pretty much no non-small samples in kick returns right now.

But he has been under 25 yards a return in two of his last three seasons. Or if you put it at as an average, it's 25.6 over those 34 kick returns.

Either way, we're not talking the pro bowler who routinely hovered around 30 yards per return.

We're talking a guy who is right in line with Igwebuike's 25.7 average over 50, except Patterson is going to be 33 which is real ancient for a kick returner, and is therefore likely to keep getting worse rather than get better.

Also pretty old for a RB/WR, which might account for he's pretty much stopped breaking tackles there and, one weird outlier in 22 with Smith aside, kinda hasn't done a whole bunch there recently.

Patterson three years ago is what you were saying. Pattersson looks a very different beast.

It’s almost like they didn’t change the rules that will dramatically affect kickoff returns this season.

 

[JTG]

Patterson's 7 returns were for 21.9 yards per return. MacFarland's 6 went for 27.3. Igwebuike's 11 went for 25.6 each.

For context, Pattersson's total was 48th out of guys who returned a kick.

In other words, if the main aim is to get a KR to kick some arse with things becoming more important there, they seem to have paid more to get worse.

So in other words he returned a kick every other game. These stats are sparse to put it nicely. Patterson is an upgrade returning. There is no reason to make it any more complicated. I know you're in draft season though so analysis is the current mode.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I actually felt like we were set on returns - any benefit in that area from Patterson is a bonus. I like that, as a depth piece, he can serve in multiple roles, and, as I said earlier, if the only thing he brings is a point of integration for Smith's offense, that's good enough for me.

 

[T1K]

There's pretty much no non-small samples in kick returns right now.

But he has been under 25 yards a return in two of his last three seasons. Or if you put it at as an average, it's 25.6 over those 34 kick returns.

Either way, we're not talking the pro bowler who routinely hovered around 30 yards per return.

We're talking a guy who is right in line with Igwebuike's 25.7 average over 50, except Patterson is going to be 33 which is real ancient for a kick returner, and is therefore likely to keep getting worse rather than get better.

Also pretty old for a RB/WR, which might account for he's pretty much stopped breaking tackles there and, one weird outlier in 22 with Smith aside, kinda hasn't done a whole bunch there recently.

Patterson three years ago is what you were saying. Pattersson looks a very different beast.

With the new rule there’s an expectation that there will be a 50-60% increase on kickoff returns. CPatt battled injuries for most of last season. He has the most kickoff return TDs in NFL history (9), and he scored one in 2022. The fact that he can contribute as both a RB/WR was surely a plus too.

 

[JTG]

I actually felt like we were set on returns - any benefit in that area from Patterson is a bonus. I like that, as a depth piece, he can serve in multiple roles, and, as I said earlier, if the only thing he brings is a point of integration for Smith's offense, that's good enough for me.

With more kicks being returned, I'm curious if we will see a return of the two kick returner sets haha.

I'm glad they are recognizing the fact that they have basically cut special teams out of the game for the last few years.

 

[Peat]

To answer all of the above...

a) Judging guys by who they are today and what their numbers have been in the last three years rather than who they've been in the NFL or how well known they are is one of the simplest ideas possible in talking about football.

b) Doing so reveals a guy who makes all the talk about "we got one of the best return men in history" look optimistic. He looks like he's about as related to that guy as Peterson was to the HoF boundary CB. The best you can say is he shows flashes of greatness combined with real lows.

c) I don't see how a change in the kickoff rules is going to help him more than any other kickoff returner.

d) His RB/WR numbers are in the same bucket. The best you can say is he shows flashes but frequently plays at a floor where he's kind of like getting a guy off of the street. In particular the last two years show a guy who's barely ever used as a route running option and instead pretty much only gets checkdowns and/or screens.

e) While learning that he was hampered with injuries does give some room for optimism on him bouncing back, he's still going to be 33 and declining. Likelihood is that equals out. Likelihood is that any 33 year old playing his positions is going to be just a guy.


He's probably not going to be expensive and he'll bring some nice experience so maybe it's a good enough idea. But all this excited talk about how the Steelers have brought in a really good option doesn't check out. His historic achievements are exactly that - history.

 

[JTG]

Tyler Guyton is a freak. If a team has an OL coach, he could be a ridiculous gem. I could also see him dropping out of the first round because he needs so much work.